The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I never said he was a finished product. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.

I said he would have an immediate impact. Dwight Howard was 10/10 guy the first time he stepped on a basketball court in the NBA. That already put him in a very small group. He eventually became a 25/15 guy.

I think Davis will immediately grab double digit boards for the Hornets and he will probably challenge for the league title in blocks. He'll score but it will mostly be on put-backs and dunks and junk like that.

Down the road, I think he will be perennial all defense and challenge for league titles in rebounds and blocks. I don't think he'll ever be Duncan or Hakeem or even Shaq on offense. But I can see him averaging 15 to 18 per game. I do expect him to develop a decent jumper. I've already seen glimpses of it.

I think his ceiling is a bunch of all-defense teams and numbers like 19/14/3. You should make the playoffs every year with that at the center spot. The rest of the team will be easy to build around that.

To compare, I don't think Drummond will get more than 12 minutes a game as a rookie. He just doesn't understand the game well enough.

This is what I keep emphasizing. The Wizards are not looking for their #1 star this year. They (supposedly) already have that. What they need is Wall's lieutenant. That's what keeps bringing me back to MKG. I think he is legitimately talented but also has the makeup to play off a star for the next ten years.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[JMS]

Where'd I suggest that KG was better than Lebron? Read.

You said something like scouts were calling Davis the next Lebron and you even thought he could be the next KG..Like that was even better than what the scouts were saying. I calculated thay hypothisis by the transitive property of basketball comparisons. My bad if that's not your intent.

Also, I don't think LKB was suggesting he is a finished product. NO ONE in entering the NBA is a finished product. Shoot, there are 10 year vets in the league who aren't finished products. There's a big difference between being a RAW project (Drummond) and a prospect who has areas to improve in (Davis).

Well I defintely don't think that's true... Karem was very athletic and very polished when he came out and averaged 28 pts a game in his rookie season. Wes Unseld came out and won rookie of the year and MVP his rookie season, Wilt did the same. Bird's impact on the Celtics was immediate. The Celtics were 29–53 during the 1978–79 season, but with Bird the team improved to 61–21 in the 79-80 season.

Oh and I don't think Davis is going to get either 18ppg or 11 rbs per game his rookie season.. He's an undersized athletic doh boy. He's not going to be mussling folks out of the lane with his 220lb 6'10 frame

Edited June 1, 2012 by JMS

[pjfootballer]

Wow how the standards have changed. If I get the #1 overall that is a big man and he averages 15-18 ppg, I'd officially call him a bust. Like JMS said above, Kareem and Wes averaged in the 20s their "rookie" year. Davis better average 20 ppg at least for his career or else he's a bust IMO. He can get his 15-18 his rookie year, but then the ppg has to go up.

[JMS]

I think Davis will immediately grab double digit boards for the Hornets and he will probably challenge for the league title in blocks.

So in his college career ( 1 year ) he averaged 10.4 rebounds per game facing off against power houses like Marist' date=' ODU, SAMFORD, and OLE Miss. You think he'll basically get the same rebounds per game as he got in college last year, his first year in the NBA? 14.2 points per game last year in college. You think he's improve on that?

I don't... I think he'll take a step backwards before he moves forward.... He's very young. look for 8 rebounds and maybe 10 points, if he works really hard.

The only thing I don't disagree with you on is shot blocking. I think he could compete with anybody in shot blocking maybe... if he get's the minutes.

I think defensively he could be more impactful... only at 220 lbs he will just get pushed around. If he was my #1 I would crindge everytime he got in the low paint... Somebody might break him in two... That size is a liability in the NBA defensively.

To compare, I don't think Drummond will get more than 12 minutes a game as a rookie. He just doesn't understand the game well enough.

Drummond is also young 18... averaged 10pts and 7.6 rebounds per game.. but he's a little bigger

6'10" 250. Least he has an NBA body and is still super athletic.

Edited June 1, 2012 by JMS

[StillUnknown]

Wow how the standards have changed. If I get the #1 overall that is a big man and he averages 15-18 ppg, I'd officially call him a bust. Like JMS said above, Kareem and Wes averaged in the 20s their "rookie" year. Davis better average 20 ppg at least for his career or else he's a bust IMO. He can get his 15-18 his rookie year, but then the ppg has to go up.

I don't think he'll even get 15-18 in his rookie season. I can see him getting 10-12, mainly on offensive rebounds and transition baskets. He'll make a bigger contribution defensively, but his offensive game is a work in progress.

I think Thomas Robinson will have a better rookie season from a numbers perspective.

[JMS]

Wow how the standards have changed. If I get the #1 overall that is a big man and he averages 15-18 ppg, I'd officially call him a bust. Like JMS said above, Kareem and Wes averaged in the 20s their "rookie" year. Davis better average 20 ppg at least for his career or else he's a bust IMO. He can get his 15-18 his rookie year, but then the ppg has to go up.

If Davis averages 20 pts per game next season I'll strip off my clothes and walk backwards around the Washington Monument naked until the police take me away...

It's a different NBA from when Wes and Karim broke into the league. Karim had one of the best coaches of all time and stayed in school 4 years each year dominating his opponents and polishing his game. That just doesn't happen anymore. Today any kid who shows any promise is immediately snapped up. If he goes to a good team like the Lakers they set aside 10 minutes a game and allow him to work regardless of whether he's good or bad. He learns like Kobe did coming off the bench his first few years. Contrasted with the Wizards who put Kwame under the tender tutaledge of Charles Oakley who berated, bullied, and generally intimidated the kid in practice, then the Wizards ignored him during the games giving him no opprotunity. The kid basically implodes.

Davis will probable get about 8pts per game and maybe that many rebounds.... He won't dominate, he likely won't even be competent... But the team he goes too won't have anybody else so at least he will get playing time, and two years down the road we will know if he will be a bust...

In order to play in the NBA Davis is going to have to do what Karem did and dedicate himself to his fitness. Davis won't be able to get along or develop in the NBA without disipline and commitement to developing his strength and endurance. Coarse he will be a multi millionaire long before that occurs so all we will have driving him is his pride.

Edited June 1, 2012 by JMS

[Chachie]

If Davis averages 20 pts per game next season I'll strip off my clothes and walk backwards around the Washington Monument naked until the police take me away...

I now have an obsessive cause to root for next season.

[Reaper 21]

Guys we are forgetting he is only 18 timmy and Kareem had college experience. The guy was getting an offense as he learned how to play. He is a kid in a grown mans body. Let him develop he will be better than Dwight and will dominate quicker as well. I saw this guy hit a 3pt shot in a game never seen Dwight hit a 15 footer in a game. He is longer and just as athletic. Will he ever grow into his body from a strength perspective time will tell. But dont forget the skinny Dwight before nba weight program.

As for the wizards I think it would be foolish not to select Robinson, I think he will be the second best player in this draft. Forget need in the NbA go BPA. I think mkg will have a harder time transferring his game than Robinson, didn't seal beal much but Barnes hasn't Prooves to me he is the best player on his team let alone the rest of the class. ( Marshall will be the best pro off that team IMO).

[JMS]

I now have an obsessive cause to root for next season.

Oh I'll do it, coarse not next year cause I'll still be paying for my last such bet for the next few years....

---------- Post added June-1st-2012 at 03:54 PM ----------

Guys we are forgetting he is only 18 timmy and Kareem had college experience.

We aren't forgetting that. That's our entire point.

He is a kid in a grown mans body.

No, he is a kid in a giant kids body.. He's 6.10" 220, and dohy..... which is hugely undersized for an NBA center or powerforward.

Edited June 1, 2012 by JMS

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Everybody needs to calm down.

A. When the hell did Wes Unseld average 20 points per game? His career high was 16.2. He averaged 13.8 as a rookie. His career average was 10.8. Seriously, who are you thinking of?

A. You can't extrapolate numbers from college to pros. The college game is 40 minutes with a 35-second shot clock. The pro game is 48 minutes with a 24 second shot clock. Pros get a lot more opportunities for blocks and rebounds.

B. You can't compare numbers from the 70s to today. In 1978, the average NBA team scored 110 points per game. In 2006-2007, it was 98.7 per game. I can't find last year's numbers (which I believe were slightly up but I know the numbers collapsed this year).

C. You can't compare anyone to Kareem. Kareem was the perfect center. This is like looking at Steven Strasberg and comparing him to Cy Young or something. "Oh, he's not as good as the single greatest offensive force in the history of basketball. Therefore, he stinks."

Edited June 1, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[SuperBash]

He is going to the Hornets guys...he's gonna put up stats, at least 15 PPG 8 boards and 2 blocks in his rookie year. AT LEAST! Gustavo Ayon got 6 and 5 playing 20 min a game for the Hornets last year. Davis is gonna put up more than 8 and 8.

Edited June 1, 2012 by SuperBash

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm still trying to process this Unseld thing. I have extremely vague memories of 70s basketball. (Though, apparently, my dad like to put my baby swing in front of NBA games. It apparently soothed me. On a related note, I like falling asleep to games broadcast by Marv Albert. I'm also almost 40). Wes was famous for rebounds, outlet passes, setting picks, and being awesome despite weighing 300 pounds and not being able to jump over a deck of cards.

Are you guys thinking of Elvin Hayes? I think you dudes might be thinking of Elvin Hayes.

Hayes averaged 28.4 as a rookie. That would have won the scoring title this year and last year.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

He is no prize winning beauty' date=' I'll say that much.[/quote']

Do you think he'll trademark his unibrow?

I love that such a famous athlete with such an ugly but easily correctible physical feature refuses to do so. He could pluck his brow tomorrow and look slightly normal. But I hope he never does.

I'd like to see more professional athletes embrace ugly ass facial hair as part of their identity. I want someone to grow one of these and be called the Kaiser:

Edited June 1, 2012 by stevemcqueen1

[MattFancy]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Y! Sources: Washington is finalizing a two-year head coaching contract with Randy Wittman. Announcement next week. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--randy-wittman-to-get-two-year-deal-as-wizards-coach.html

[SuperBash]

Two year? I thought it was just to the end of next year and evaluate it then?

---------- Post added June-1st-2012 at 04:51 PM ----------

---------- Post added June-1st-2012 at 04:54 PM ----------

[Going Commando]

Maybe it's just me but the more I study TRob, the more similarities I see between him and Blake Griffin coming out of school.

I'm waiting for his official measurements.

I've thought the same before too. It's that build. They're built like tanks and both are super quick, ultra high motor, but a tiny bit short for PFs.

I'm really waiting to see what he measures too. If he hits 6'10 or comes real close with good arm length, I think he might be the second guy off the board, and I'd have a hard time seeing him slip past us at three. As is, I think he's a top four lock.

The thing I like about TRob past the rebounding, athleticism, and motor, is that he's actually got some surprising finesse skills. You'd think he's just a bull, but he actually handles the ball pretty well for a PF. He ran point from time to time, very unusual, and it's why his turnovers were so high for his position. He's also already got a passable midrange shot so the face up game will be there earlier for him than it would be for a guy like Drummond.

Either way, if we stay at 3, I'm good with MKG, Drummond, or TRob. I don't see a lot that could change my mind on those three from here to draft day. I'd also be able to stomach either Beal or Barnes at three, but I think both would be a bit of a disappointment.

If we trade down, I'd be all for targeting Barnes or Beal or even Rivers and Sully. Lamb would be OK too. I also like Terrence Jones and Quincy Miller as potential targets in the teens. Maybe Dion Waiters. Anyone but PJIII or another PG like Teague really.

---------- Post added June-1st-2012 at 06:03 PM ----------

Lamb's definitely got skills Samuels. And I agree with you that he and other Uconn players are underrated because they're team was a disappointment this season. But the trouble for me with Lamb is that he's got a physical defficiency which he'll never be able to get over. He's not like someone like Anthony Davis--skinny because he's a late bloomer. Lamb has very narrow shoulders and joints. He'll never be able to add much bulk because his frame is so small.

You can teach skills to another guy, but you can't make Lamb much bigger and stronger. I'd only target him if several other players were gone first.

[StillUnknown]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Y! Sources: Washington is finalizing a two-year head coaching contract with Randy Wittman. Announcement next week. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--randy-wittman-to-get-two-year-deal-as-wizards-coach.html

2 years from now, Ernie will scapegoat him and somehow manage to retain his own position.

The organization ultimately never went outside to conduct interviews with potential candidates.

This really pisses me off.

Edited June 1, 2012 by StillUnknown

[Going Commando]

So glad we didn't fall out of the top three picks. I think we end up getting TRob or MKG. I'd be absolutely thrilled with either.

[RonArtest15]

So glad we didn't fall out of the top three picks. I think we end up getting TRob or MKG. I'd be absolutely thrilled with either.

My feelings as well. I think the Beal talk is just a smoke screen with the hopes that Cleveland bites and we can get the #24 (as well as the #4) out of a potential trade.

[Destino]

Help me like MKG, what SFs are stars that can't shoot or couldn't shoot when they came out? Melo, Lebron, and Durant are all natural scorers.

[SuperBash]

If all 3 draft picks make the roster, we'll have 10 players with only 2 years experience or less.

Wall

Vesely

Booker

Seraphin

Crawford

Mack

Singelton

# 3

# 32

# 46

Who knows about the 46, probably a Euro Stash but if you do the talked about 6 and 11, that is 10 players almost guaranteed to make the roster with 2 years or experience or less. That is a lot of inexperienced players. Not saying it is good or bad, just something to think about. Maybe they start using the NBDL more because they all can't get solid minutes.

[Samuels]

Help me like MKG, what SFs are stars that can't shoot or couldn't shoot when they came out? Melo, Lebron, and Durant are all natural scorers.

Your thinking big, lower the standards alittle. MKG will be a Loul Deng type player without the 3 point shot. A glue type of player that does all the little things. I like him but he is'nt enough of a upgrade over Singleton and Vesely defensively that i'd pick him. If we are drafting a Sf after spend 2 first round picks on them last year then i'll take Barnes for this current group.

I don't know how many assist Wall could have had if guys could just knockdown spot up jumpers. MKG on the this team how its currently constructed does'nt help this team out. In my opinion if your PG can't shoot you damn sure better have swingmen that can or serious stretch shooting bigmen.

[Destino]

Deng without a reliable jumpshot is a horrible result.

[Samuels]

Deng without a reliable jumpshot is a horrible result.

On this team it would be. Not only that but his ballhandling has gotten overrated by alot of people. Most of his points came in transition,off rebounds and he does have a nice postup jumphook. But he was posting guys much smaller I highly doubt he can postup succesfully on the block in the NBA.

I have him ranked #2 overall I like his game but he is limited by his shot. The kid has everything you want hustle,smarts,grit,rebounding etc. In a way he is alot like Vesely except he rebounds alittle better. Same kind of smart,hustle guy who does the dirty work and plays the right way.

[RonArtest15]

Help me like MKG, what SFs are stars that can't shoot or couldn't shoot when they came out? Melo, Lebron, and Durant are all natural scorers.

A fair comparison to MKG is Andre Iguodala.

He's a better offensive player than Chris Singleton and Vesely and will be a MUCH better defender on the next level due to his motor and instincts. Chris Singleton was AWFUL last season and looked completely lost. If we could get a mulligan, I wish we could re-do the pick and take Iman Shumpert. Oh well...Besides, Chris Singleton and Jan Vesely are HARDLY reasons why we shouldn't be looking to upgrade the 3. It's a position of need.

Speaking of Vesely, look at these #'s

Offensively he was virtually incapable of scoring when matched directly vs another player. Shot 0% in iso situations, 9%FG in post-up opportunities, and 21%FG in spot-up scenarios. Jan’s points come when no one is directly guarding him, which is fine and a testament to how well he cuts etc…but opposing teams basically let him be and he filled in the cracks. Again, that’s fine but there has been nothing to indicate he has an nba level offensive game.

Defensively the players he guards score 50% of the time in post-up situations and 44% in spot-up scenarios. Those two matchups represent 70% of Jan’s defensive plays and the opposition thrived. What Jan is really good at is help defense, being active with his hands, that sort of team stuff. Again, that is fine and good, but he did not show the ability to defend his man directly very well.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/5/4/2999121/veselys-improvement-mirage

That quote is from one of the posters on that article on BF.