Renegade7 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, Destino said: Now that CP3 left LA does that mean Blake Griffin is also open to hearing other teams? Any word on hard working Grunfeld talking to him... or anyone at all? I don't know, man, part of me says he'd be an upgrade over Morris, but Griffin is always hurt when you need him most. We don't need another Mahinmi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 every year we see the same item online that is basically "Blake Griffin - Overrated". Isn't he a FA? So.... why would they need to trade for him? Oh...sign/trade Otto and sign Griffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I just want to see some evidence the Grunfeld is actually working to get another star here. He failed to get a meeting with Durant. The only time he seems to have had a chance to talk to any star player is when Horford briefly considered DC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Jeff Malone's midrange jumper was as sweet as it gets. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Griffin could work well with Wall but I feel like his body is breaking down. I'd pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Who are the Bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuler74 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Love, love Otto....great team player that does everything , that being said I hope we do not re sign him. It's crazy to pay MAX money to 12.2 pts a game. There are a lot of players that give you that for a lot less..the question is who could they possibly target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 8 hours ago, justice98 said: I mean, how many wins is Otto's presence on the roster really worth? Five? A little over 9 this season. Otto is really damn good. He's special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 6 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I don't know, man, part of me says he'd be an upgrade over Morris, but Griffin is always hurt when you need him most. We don't need another Mahinmi. That part of you is right. He'd be a huge upgrade over Morris. Morris is a slightly below average starting PF. Blake Griffin is an AS caliber PF. He had a nice season last year despite his injury. He really kept the Clippers afloat while Chris Paul was hurt. Very respectable 7.7 win shares in 61 games which comes out to around 10 for a full season, which is solid AS territory for a player with his high usage. Nice 115 ORtg, again, an excellent number for a high usage volume scorer and facilitator (especially since he doesn't have a three ball). It means he gets to the line a lot and assists his teammates at a disproportionately high rate for his position without turning it over too much. That 115 ORtg on 28% usage is similar to what Beal did. Good enough second option scorer and shot creator for a contender. Decent defender. Good rebounder. Nice collection of skills at a position where you really don't see a lot of that elsewhere in the league. He'd be an enormous upgrade over Keef. More than double his value. If he can be had without giving up Otto, go for it. But he's a FA if he opts out, so he needs to opt in. And LA has to agree to trade him, which they don't seem ready to do. If he opts out, there is no real avenue for us to acquire him. We just don't have the cap space. Which is a shame, because he'd be a nice fit here. Help us win the conference when LeBron leaves Cleveland for Houston next summer. I think he's going to opt out and leave LA in free agency. What's the point for him in opting in now that Chris Paul is gone? The Clippers are getting blown up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 7 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Oh...sign/trade Otto and sign Griffin. The sign and trade was gelded in the last CBA. Otto would never agree to it because he'd have to walk away from tens of millions of dollars just to help us get rid of him. Instead he'll sign an offer sheet with whomever and force us to match or let him walk for nothing. The sign and trade provision is dead now. They killed it to keep Miami 2010 from happening again. Teams have to make the cap space for acquisitions the hard way now. We have no ability to offer Blake Griffin more than the MLE this season, which probably gets us laughed off the phone. Letting Otto walk saves us nothing this summer--the MLE is bigger than our available cap space after relinquishing all holds (Otto, Bojan, Burke, & Jennings) and cutting Ochefu and Mac. The only way we can clear up significant cap space is making unbalanced trades with teams who have a ton of cap space. Obviously trading Wall or Beal to clear cap is nonsense. Trading Morris or Gortat just to clear cap without destroying our roster's integrity would be tough. Replacing them without spending more is going to be hard, they're both cheap for what they produce. And unloading Mahinmi to clear cap would be great but is probably very unrealistic given how much he costs and what a crappy season he had. Nobody is going to come along and help us out with their stupidity by taking Mahinmi off our hands or giving us worthy assets in return for Gortat or Morris. We're just not that lucky. Otto is going to sign and extension with us and the earliest he can be considered in any trades is late December. This is 100% how it will play out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 What would be amazing is if Blake Griffin was like "alright, let me give you guys a trial year. I'll sign for the MLE and then if we get to the Finals and I like it here, we can work on paying me real money next summer." But that is absurd when you consider that Ernie Grunfeld is the guy who would have to get Blake Griffin to buy that load of crap. That's the kind of thing only Pat Riley could sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 my bad on the sign and trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: my bad on the sign and trade. I didn't know any of this stuff about the S&T until David Aldridge mentioned it had been killed in the last CBA. There were a lot of obscure changes in the CBA that changed the team building game. They want to make super teams as difficult as possible to build without going to a hard cap. I'm sure the owners would love a hard cap, but they're going to have to go to the mattresses to get it from the players. This last CBA negotiation was the least contentious I can ever remember. The league and the player's union were essentially just dutch ruddering each other over the mountain of money they snookered TNT and ESPN into giving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 The players do keep getting more leverage in the league. That's for sure. If the owners got together on spending the same way players do on taking less to play together. That would be collusion. I rarely feel bad for the ultra-rich. But how do teams in places like Toronto or Sacramento or wherever get a little protection here? No franchise tag. No sign and trade. Otto could go out and get an offer sheet and the Bullets could match. That's about it. But that's just him. Some other guys are free and clear and the teams don't get anything. No comp pick. No extra mid-level exception (I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: The players do keep getting more leverage in the league. That's for sure. If the owners got together on spending the same way players do on taking less to play together. That would be collusion. I rarely feel bad for the ultra-rich. But how do teams in places like Toronto or Sacramento or wherever get a little protection here? No franchise tag. No sign and trade. Otto could go out and get an offer sheet and the Bullets could match. That's about it. But that's just him. Some other guys are free and clear and the teams don't get anything. No comp pick. No extra mid-level exception (I think). The only protection franchises have is being able to offer their own guys a fifth year and 8% annual raises instead of 5%. Or if the qualify for the new designated veteran player exception, then you can extend them early for a higher max deal than they'd normally be eligible for. Which is what I think will happen with Wall this summer. Those advantages aren't nothing, they can add up to being able to offer tens of millions of dollars more than competitors. But there is a really easy end around that makes it a half measure: guys in their prime take 1+1 deals to keep their options open so the fifth year is meaningless to them, and they're constantly renegotiating their contracts to match the increasing cap, so they're getting raises. Also the levels of max contract are set at 7 and 10 years veterancy, so this is how their careers are going: - One and done, 19 years old, high lottery pick, first four years on rookie scale deal - Max rookie extension for either 4 years or 5. No one has ever turned this down before. - Hit free agency after 8 or 9 seasons, when they're in their absolute prime - Sign a 1+1 mid level max deal with a contender (1+1 = a two year deal where the second year is a player option or early termination option) - Hit free agency again at 10 years veterancy to get the biggest possible max deal This is what Kevin Durant has done. So basically the only way for a team to achieve true long term security/control with their stars once they reach their prime is to be one of the best teams in the league and have the guys sign DVPEs. It's a bad system. Free player movement means a sharp decrease in competition, which is bad for the league long term. What surprises me is third party fan reaction to stars leaving franchises to form uncompetitive super teams. It's basically "lol, git gud." That is, up until their team's star player leaves them and they get to spend the next ten to twenty years watching 20 and 30 win teams (with maybe an occasional 3 year run of mid seed .500 ball in there somewhere) which means of course that they stop rooting for that team and decide to either be Lakers fans or follow LeBron around the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANDWARF Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Like Griffin, but injuries are an issue. According to ESPN's Michael Eaves, Blake Griffin (toe) may not be ready for the start of the season and could be out until December. He suffered an injury to the plantar plate of his right big toe in Game 3 of the series against Utah and had surgery on May 1, but we haven't heard much about his rehab since then. ESPN's Ramona Shelburne said she has heard otherwise, as her source believes Griffin will be ready in time for the opener. With Chris Paul joining the Rockets, the No. 1 priority for the Clippers is to re-sign Griffin and the franchise is reportedly ready to offer him a five-year max deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I have no interest in Griffin...neither as a player or a person. I am thrilled that our cap situation basically eliminates the possibility of us signing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Wall is not signing an extension this summer. I can certainly guarantee that isn't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said: Wall is not signing an extension this summer. I can certainly guarantee that isn't happening. He might. No guarantee he makes an All NBA team next year. He'll be competing for one of three spots with about ten other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Isn't Wall already locked up for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Warhead36 said: Isn't Wall already locked up for a while? Two more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 2 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: I have no interest in Griffin...neither as a player or a person. I am thrilled that our cap situation basically eliminates the possibility of us signing him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 whats gonna piss me off the most is after signing Otto to a max deal, we will immediately be told to not judge his performance by his contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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