What's With The Fascination With Tupac?

[Sticksboi05]

Wait, so he was a genuinely nice guy AND a true thug? How does that work? He got himself shot by talking **** and fighting someone.

[RonArtest15]

He was ONE OF the greatest rappers that ever lived. Most people can relate to most stuff he rapped about. It was just dumb desisions that caused for such a short life. But he was a genious. He is up there with the Beatles and Elvis. Even a decade after his death people still thought he was alive. I was one of those people for the first like 5 years thinking he was still alive.

Fixed.

I agree w. most of what you said. He may have had the impact in the rap world that's comparible to the Beatles and Elvis, but globally....he's not touching what they did. Behind the "thug" image that Tupac portrayed was a very deep, and intelligent man. Some of his lyrics come off as pure poetry and have inspired college courses to take a closer look at the meaning behind his words. I can't relate to a lot of the things Tupac experienced, but many of the things he spoke about have resonated with me to this day. Much like people who have a strong stomach for horror movies, you're going to have to listen to his music with "open" ears to say the least. Most likely if you've never heard him, you're going to be offended by some of the things he says, but if you can listen to LP's like All Eyez on Me or Me Agains the World with a pure, objective mindset, you'll possibly have an understanding of his genius. His music is absolutely timeless. Like apples/oranges in comparing his work to most of the garbage that's out today.

[Mickalino]

educated people, put this man on a pedistal?.

oh the irony

[#98QBKiller]

Most of what you're saying is true...but these two don't go together. If he truly lived the life he rapped about, he would be incredibly violent, which would not make him a nice guy nor a good person. Secondly, we could bring up things like the shooting of an off-duty police officer, the beating of a gang member in Vegas, or the jail time spent for sexual abuse (potential gangbang) of a woman.

Talented yes...good guy and nice person...a stretch. I'm just not willing to let people make stuff up like "He was born in Rikers."

When I say he lived the life he rapped about, I meant it in the context of that's where he came from. He wasn't making up his life story, he came from poverty and made something of himself. His ties to that life are what ultimately took him away, but that doesn't mean that he can't be a good person. They are not mutually exclusive.

As the other poster pointed out, you can't have it both ways and that's the main problem I have with people who immortalizes him. On one hand he was a nice guy. On the other, he lived the lifestyle he rapped about. Are we talking about the same nice guy that hung around Suge Knight and was seen, along with Suge Knight beating up a guy just minutes before he was gunned down?

Tupac and Suge did beat up a guy the night of Tupac's murder. The guy was a crip that had robbed one of Tupac's friends months before, and he ultimately ended up being shot to death at a car wash in Compton. I'm not saying it was ok to go and beat someone down, but maybe look up the circumstances surrounding the incident before using it as evidence against someone's character.

[HailinginSeattle]

Why is he so popular and why do everybody, including educated people, put this man on a pedistal?

Pedistal? I think it's safe to say that you are not one of those educated people.

[Mooka]

He's one of the top rappers of all time and died young. I think he's still the top selling rap artist of all time. Along with his image and flow, he's also remembered as a lyricist and poet.

Big L, Old Dirty ****, Eazy E, and Big Pun were also mainstream emcees that died, but none of them were as big as Tupac and Biggie.

[Thinking Skins]

Tupac was like a double edged sword. In one song he could touch your emotional side with a song like "Brenda's got a baby", "Dear mama" or "Keep Ya head up". Then he could turn right around and touch your aggressive side with a song like "Hit Em Up" or "**** the world" or "I Get Around". Few rappers had that ability, but on every Tupac album you saw him doing just that. And I don't just mean that "after the club" track that some rappers throw into an album. I mean he could put together an album that was a good balance of the two extremes.

And not just that, he has such a wide array of tracks that tell just what he's thinking. And not just what he's thinking, but thoughts I'd assume go on inside the mind of a thug. Like "16 on death row" or "Shorty wanna be a thug" or "I wonder if heaven's got a ghetto", "Wonda why they call you *****". "Teardrops and Closed caskets" "Me Against the World", "I aint mad at ya". These songs are all so deep to me because they go beyond just telling a story, but they're trying to explain how a person's place in life impacted the decisions they made. Whether i agree or disagree with the conclusions he came to, the fact that he tried to explain the concept deserves respect in my book. So I'd easily put him above somebody who simply says "listen up I've got a story to tell" no matter how 'lyrical' that song is.

And as far as what 99QBKiller said, I leave you with a few verses

from Krazy

Last year was a hard one, but life goes on

Hold my head against the wall learnin right from wrong

They say my ghetto intrumental, detrimental to kids

As if they can't see the misery in which they live

Blame me, for the outcome, ban my records - check it

Don't have to bump this but please respect it

I took a minus and now the hard times are behind us

Turned into a plus, now they stuck livin blinded

Hennesey got me feelin bad, time to stop drinkin

Rollin, in my drop-top Jag, what's that cops thinkin?

Sittin in my car, watch the stars and smoke

I came a long way but still I got so far to go

Dear mama, don't worry; I'ma watch for snakes

Tell Setchu, that I love her, but it's hard to take

I got the letter that she sent me, and I cried for weeks

This what came out when I tried to speak - all I heard was

Time goes by, hopin that it gets me high

they got a "n-word" feelin crazy

I'm goin crazy

from My Block

Sheddin tears, reminiscin on my past fears

Cause **** was hectic for me last year

It appears that I've been marked for death, my heartless breath

The underlying cause of my arrest, my life is stressed

And no rest forever weary, my eyes stay teary

for all the brothers that are buried in the cemetery

**** is scary, our black on black crime legendary

But at times unnessecary, I'm gettin worried

Teardrops and closed caskets, the three strikes law is drastic

And certain death for us ghetto ****s

What can we do when we're arrested, but open fire

Life in the pen ain't for me, cause I'd rather die

But don't cry through your despair

I wonder if the Lord still cares, for us *****z on welfare

And who cares if we survive

The only time they notice a ***** is when he's clutchin on a four-five

My neighborhood ain't the same

Cause all these little babies goin crazy and they sufferin in the game

And I swear it's like a trap

But I ain't given up on the hood, it's all good when I go back

Hoes show me love, *****z give me props

Forever hop cause it don't stop... on my block

from Broken Wings

Come on come on

I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself

is life worth living should I blast myself?

I'm tired of bein' poor & even worse I'm black

my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch

Cops give a damn about a negro

pull the trigger kill a ***** he's a hero

Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares

one less hungry mouth on the welfare

First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers

give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other

It's time to fight back that's what Huey said

2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead

I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere

unless we share with each other

We gotta start makin' changes

learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers

and that's how it's supposed to be

How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?

I'd love to go back to when we played as kids

but things changed, and that's the way it is

from Who Do You Believe in

Who do you believe in?

I put my faith in God, blessed and still breathin

And even though it's hard, that's who I believe in

Before I'm leavin, I'm askin the grievin - who do you believe in?

[Verse Two: 2Pac]

Can't close my eyes cause all I see is terror

I hate the man in the mirror

Cause his reflection makes the pain turn realer

Times of Armageddeon, murder in mass amounts

In this society where only gettin the cash counts

I started out as a beginner

Entered the criminal lifestyle became a sinner

I make my money and vacate, evade prison

Went from the chosen one to outcast, unforgiven

And all the Hennessy and weed can't hide, the pain I feel inside

You know, it's like I'm livin just to die

I fall on my knees and beg for mercy, not knowin if I'm worthy

Livin life thinkin no man can hurt me

So I'm askin -- before I lay me down to sleep

Before you judge me, look at all the **** you did to me, my misery

I rose up from the slums, made it out the flames

In my search for fame will I change? I'm askin

Who do you believe in?

from Cause I had to

I got to work with what you gave me

Claiming' I'm a criminal and you the one that made me

They got me trapped in this slavery

now I'm lost in this Holocaust headed for my grave G

I told Sam he could **** the war

and got a busted jaw for sayin' **** the law

and if you wonder why I'm mad check the record

What's a "n-word" got to do to get respected?

Sometimes I think I'm gettin' tested

And if I don't say yes a "n-word"'s quick to get arrested

That's the reason I stay zested

I keep a vest on my chest in case the cops are gettin' restless

Walk around ready to light **** up

And since my life is ****ed, some say I'm slightly nuts

Buck, buck is the sound as I move up

Other niggas pay attention when I'm fool, bust

They make a "n-word" be a killer I used to be a dealer

But they wanted to see who's realer

Now them same motha****as wanna murder me

And I wonder If the Lord ever heard of me (uh)

I need loot so I'm doin' what I do

And don't say **** until you've walked in my shoes

There was no other destiny to choose

I had nothin' left to lose so I'm singin' "n-word" blues

Can't you see, we're raised to all be thugs

Make's us do the things we do

Got to let a Outlaw make moves

(A "n-word" got to pay the ****in' rent)

I can go on and on for days, but I refuse to believe anyone who doesn't see the depth behind his lyrics. And even though he raps about some pretty controversial things (shooting, suicide, robbery, criminal lifestyle), he's not just saying "love me because I shot somebody". Its more like he's taking you inside the mind of somebody who did one of these controversial things. That just takes talent.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

When I say he lived the life he rapped about, I meant it in the context of that's where he came from. He wasn't making up his life story, he came from poverty and made something of himself. His ties to that life are what ultimately took him away, but that doesn't mean that he can't be a good person. They are not mutually exclusive.

But I thought it was someone from B.I.G's crew that shot him!

Tupac and Suge did beat up a guy the night of Tupac's murder. The guy was a crip that had robbed one of Tupac's friends months before, and he ultimately ended up being shot to death at a car wash in Compton. I'm not saying it was ok to go and beat someone down, but maybe look up the circumstances surrounding the incident before using it as evidence against someone's character.

[blue collar]

Pedistal? I think it's safe to say that you are not one of those educated people.

OK dude, you're smarter than me. HailingSeattle knows how to spell pedistal, or is it pedestal, better than blue collar. Good for you.

[blue collar]

When I say he lived the life he rapped about, I meant it in the context of that's where he came from. He wasn't making up his life story, he came from poverty and made something of himself. His ties to that life are what ultimately took him away, but that doesn't mean that he can't be a good person. They are not mutually exclusive.

Tupac and Suge did beat up a guy the night of Tupac's murder. The guy was a crip that had robbed one of Tupac's friends months before, and he ultimately ended up being shot to death at a car wash in Compton. I'm not saying it was ok to go and beat someone down, but maybe look up the circumstances surrounding the incident before using it as evidence against someone's character.

It is evidence of ones character and I know all about what happened that led to the fight.

[Thinking Skins]

Tupac was like a double edged sword. In one song he could touch your emotional side with a song like "Brenda's got a baby", "Dear mama" or "Keep Ya head up". Then he could turn right around and touch your aggressive side with a song like "Hit Em Up" or "**** the world" or "I Get Around". Few rappers had that ability, but on every Tupac album you saw him doing just that. And I don't just mean that "after the club" track that some rappers throw into an album. I mean he could put together an album that was a good balance of the two extremes.

And not just that, he has such a wide array of tracks that tell just what he's thinking. And not just what he's thinking, but thoughts I'd assume go on inside the mind of a thug. Like "16 on death row" or "Shorty wanna be a thug" or "I wonder if heaven's got a ghetto", "Wonda why they call you *****". "Teardrops and Closed caskets" "Me Against the World", "I aint mad at ya". These songs are all so deep to me because they go beyond just telling a story, but they're trying to explain how a person's place in life impacted the decisions they made. Whether i agree or disagree with the conclusions he came to, the fact that he tried to explain the concept deserves respect in my book. So I'd easily put him above somebody who simply says "listen up I've got a story to tell" no matter how 'lyrical' that song is.

And as far as what 99QBKiller said, I leave you with a few verses

from Krazy

Last year was a hard one, but life goes on

Hold my head against the wall learnin right from wrong

They say my ghetto intrumental, detrimental to kids

As if they can't see the misery in which they live

Blame me, for the outcome, ban my records - check it

Don't have to bump this but please respect it

I took a minus and now the hard times are behind us

Turned into a plus, now they stuck livin blinded

Hennesey got me feelin bad, time to stop drinkin

Rollin, in my drop-top Jag, what's that cops thinkin?

Sittin in my car, watch the stars and smoke

I came a long way but still I got so far to go

Dear mama, don't worry; I'ma watch for snakes

Tell Setchu, that I love her, but it's hard to take

I got the letter that she sent me, and I cried for weeks

This what came out when I tried to speak - all I heard was

Time goes by, hopin that it gets me high

they got a "n-word" feelin crazy

I'm goin crazy

from My Block

Sheddin tears, reminiscin on my past fears

Cause **** was hectic for me last year

It appears that I've been marked for death, my heartless breath

The underlying cause of my arrest, my life is stressed

And no rest forever weary, my eyes stay teary

for all the brothers that are buried in the cemetery

**** is scary, our black on black crime legendary

But at times unnessecary, I'm gettin worried

Teardrops and closed caskets, the three strikes law is drastic

And certain death for us ghetto ****s

What can we do when we're arrested, but open fire

Life in the pen ain't for me, cause I'd rather die

But don't cry through your despair

I wonder if the Lord still cares, for us *****z on welfare

And who cares if we survive

The only time they notice a ***** is when he's clutchin on a four-five

My neighborhood ain't the same

Cause all these little babies goin crazy and they sufferin in the game

And I swear it's like a trap

But I ain't given up on the hood, it's all good when I go back

Hoes show me love, *****z give me props

Forever hop cause it don't stop... on my block

from Broken Wings

Come on come on

I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself

is life worth living should I blast myself?

I'm tired of bein' poor & even worse I'm black

my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch

Cops give a damn about a negro

pull the trigger kill a ***** he's a hero

Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares

one less hungry mouth on the welfare

First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers

give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other

It's time to fight back that's what Huey said

2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead

I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere

unless we share with each other

We gotta start makin' changes

learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers

and that's how it's supposed to be

How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?

I'd love to go back to when we played as kids

but things changed, and that's the way it is

from Who Do You Believe in

Who do you believe in?

I put my faith in God, blessed and still breathin

And even though it's hard, that's who I believe in

Before I'm leavin, I'm askin the grievin - who do you believe in?

[Verse Two: 2Pac]

Can't close my eyes cause all I see is terror

I hate the man in the mirror

Cause his reflection makes the pain turn realer

Times of Armageddeon, murder in mass amounts

In this society where only gettin the cash counts

I started out as a beginner

Entered the criminal lifestyle became a sinner

I make my money and vacate, evade prison

Went from the chosen one to outcast, unforgiven

And all the Hennessy and weed can't hide, the pain I feel inside

You know, it's like I'm livin just to die

I fall on my knees and beg for mercy, not knowin if I'm worthy

Livin life thinkin no man can hurt me

So I'm askin -- before I lay me down to sleep

Before you judge me, look at all the **** you did to me, my misery

I rose up from the slums, made it out the flames

In my search for fame will I change? I'm askin

Who do you believe in?

from Cause I had to

I got to work with what you gave me

Claiming' I'm a criminal and you the one that made me

They got me trapped in this slavery

now I'm lost in this Holocaust headed for my grave G

I told Sam he could **** the war

and got a busted jaw for sayin' **** the law

and if you wonder why I'm mad check the record

What's a "n-word" got to do to get respected?

Sometimes I think I'm gettin' tested

And if I don't say yes a "n-word"'s quick to get arrested

That's the reason I stay zested

I keep a vest on my chest in case the cops are gettin' restless

Walk around ready to light **** up

And since my life is ****ed, some say I'm slightly nuts

Buck, buck is the sound as I move up

Other niggas pay attention when I'm fool, bust

They make a "n-word" be a killer I used to be a dealer

But they wanted to see who's realer

Now them same motha****as wanna murder me

And I wonder If the Lord ever heard of me (uh)

I need loot so I'm doin' what I do

And don't say **** until you've walked in my shoes

There was no other destiny to choose

I had nothin' left to lose so I'm singin' "n-word" blues

Can't you see, we're raised to all be thugs

Make's us do the things we do

Got to let a Outlaw make moves

(A "n-word" got to pay the ****in' rent)

I can go on and on for days, but I refuse to believe anyone who doesn't see the depth behind his lyrics. And even though he raps about some pretty controversial things (shooting, suicide, robbery, criminal lifestyle), he's not just saying "love me because I shot somebody". Its more like he's taking you inside the mind of somebody who did one of these controversial things. That just takes talent.

[C26 Run]

Honestly it has to do with another young man dying at an early age. People who don't know, understand, or even listen to Hip Hop will not be able to comprend the intelligence of Tupac. Tupac was never a thug, he was always alot more political then people are willing to admit. The tattoo on his stomach: THUG LIFE, had a political meaning behind it. The Hate U Give Little Infants, F*&^ Everybody.

What alot of people don't realize is that 'Pac was an actor first, rapper second. In Baltimore, he went to the School of Performing Arts. He was an actor and he knew how to play the game. Unfortunately, once he got shot (Quad Studios shooting) his entire outlook on life totally changed. Which was fueled by Suge Knight. Knight seized on an opportunity to make more money with 'Pac and took full advantage.

Now I haven't seen the 30 for 30 film, so I don't know how much was truly discussed. But alot of people within the industry have speculated that the night in Vegas was all setup by Suge Knight.

:helmet:

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I can go on and on for days, but I refuse to believe anyone who doesn't see the depth behind his lyrics. And even though he raps about some pretty controversial things (shooting, suicide, robbery, criminal lifestyle), he's not just saying "love me because I shot somebody". Its more like he's taking you inside the mind of somebody who did one of these controversial things. That just takes talent.

:applause:

[blue collar]

Tupac was never a thug

:helmet:

You could have fooled me. I just took a refresher course on his life and the man you say wasn't a thug has been in his share of shootouts and other illegal activity. I'm sorry, he was far from a good guy. That's why I don't understand all the love he gets, particularly from educated people. Just because he was articulate and had a way with words doesn't mean he was smart or a good guy, but that's just my opinion.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

That's why I don't understand all the love he gets, particularly from educated people. Just because he was articulate and had a way with words doesn't mean he was smart or a good guy, but that's just my opinion.

You can question his character but I've never heard anyone question his intelligence.

[tone_dubbz]

I think because his life was controversial. Tupac definitely put out some good songs. Plus he was more true to his words than the modern day rappers.

Quit honestly, I like Tupac the actor just as much as I like him as a rapper. His character "Bishop" in Juice was a wild dude. He wasn't the most lyrical rapper, but he definitely was live when he performed.

[Sticksboi05]

He's one of the top rappers of all time and died young. I think he's still the top selling rap artist of all time. Along with his image and flow, he's also remembered as a lyricist and poet.

Big L, Old Dirty ****, Eazy E, and Big Pun were also mainstream emcees that died, but none of them were as big as Tupac and Biggie.

Nope. Eminem has surpassed him as of a while ago.

[blue collar]

You can question his character but I've never heard anyone question his intelligence.

Just exactly how intelligent was he? For someone that was supposed to be so smart, he did a lot of dumb things. A lot of people say the samething about Mike Tyson.

[Sticksboi05]

He was the greatest rapper that ever lived. Most people can relate to most stuff he rapped about. It was just dumb desisions that caused for such a short life. But he was a genious. He is up there with the Beatles and Elvis. Even a decade after his death people still thought he was alive. I was one of those people for the first like 5 years thinking he was still alive.

Rakim my good sir. Check out my melody. Hell I'd take Rakim, KRS 1, Chuck D, B.I.G. etc. over Tupac. But it depends of course on whether you put more stock into emotion or pure lyrical ability.

[C26 Run]

You could have fooled me. I just took a refresher course on his life and the man you say wasn't a thug has been in his share of shootouts and other illegal activity. I'm sorry, he was far from a good guy. That's why I don't understand all the love he gets, particularly from educated people. Just because he was articulate and had a way with words doesn't mean he was smart or a good guy, but that's just my opinion.

I hear ya and your entitled to your opinion. But trust that half the negativity you hear about 'Pac is not true. How many shootouts has Tupac been in? At the Quad he was robbed. With the police, he was shot at first. The rape charge? He didn't do what he should've done and that's what landed him in jail. He should've stopped his friend from sodomizing that girl, and he didn't. So he was sent to jail. That doesn't make him a bad person, he made a stupid mistake which we've all done. 'Pac symbolized what young Black America was and still is going through.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Just exactly how intelligent was he? For someone that was supposed to be so smart, he did a lot of dumb things.

A lot of intelligent people do dumb things. You know that. :pfft:

[#98QBKiller]

Just exactly how intelligent was he? For someone that was supposed to be so smart, he did a lot of dumb things. A lot of people say the samething about Mike Tyson.

You asked what's the fascination with Tupac and you've been given several good answers from different people, yet you've somehow managed to turn this thread into a debate on his intelligence and character. If you want to judge him as a person why don't you go listen to his music, read/watch his interviews, watch some of his movies, and read up on his life story and then come back and tell us what you think. You obviously have strong opinions about him and from reading your posts they don't seem to be well informed.

[blue collar]

I hear ya and your entitled to your opinion. But trust that half the negativity you hear about 'Pac is not true. How many shootouts has Tupac been in? At the Quad he was robbed. With the police, he was shot at first. The rape charge? He didn't do what he should've done and that's what landed him in jail. He should've stopped his friend from sodomizing that girl, and he didn't. So he was sent to jail. That doesn't make him a bad person, he made a stupid mistake which we've all done. 'Pac symbolized what young Black America was and still is going through.

If he was just some dude on the 6 O'Clock news with his rap sheet, would you be saying that? I mean, standing around and letting your friends rape someone is very bad.

[blue collar]

You asked what's the fascination with Tupac and you've been given several good answers from different people, yet you've somehow managed to turn this thread into a debate on his intelligence and character. If you want to judge him as a person why don't you go listen to his music, read/watch his interviews, watch some of his movies, and read up on his life story and then come back and tell us what you think. You obviously have strong opinions about him and from reading your posts they don't seem to be well informed.

I never said their wasn't no good answers. Everyone has a right to their opinion. And I don't remember saying anything that wasn't true.

[C26 Run]

If he was just some dude on the 6 O'Clock news with his rap sheet, would you be saying that?

Absolutely. Just because he was famous doesn't change anything. I ask you to watch as many interviews of 'Pac as you can. Listen to his music objectively and listen to the pain of his lyrics.