RCP: MSNBC Trashes Obama's Address: Compared To Carter, "I Don't Sense Executive Command"

[Burgold]

Do you think that they could have stopped it and solved the problem, TB? Do you think government incompetence has prevented this disaster from being fixed? I don't get that sense. I get the sense that it is beyond them and that they are incompetent but not for bureacratic reasons (though I'm sure that ain't helping either), but rather it's the tech side and the "how to" which is the big problem.

Hurricanes are easier. They happen and their gone and you deal with their aftermath. You rescue people, you provide food, medicine, and water, you build temporary housing, you write a bunch o big checks, and you rebuild. The Gulf disaster is much worse. This is puncturing one of the earth's arteries and not being able to stop the blood flow. It's not even being able to get to the wound as it continues to bleed.

[Thiebear]

Do you think that they could have stopped it and solved the problem, TB? Do you think government incompetence has prevented this disaster from being fixed? I don't get that sense. I get the sense that it is beyond them and that they are incompetent but not for bureacratic reasons (though I'm sure that ain't helping either), but rather it's the tech side and the "how to" which is the big problem.

Hurricanes are easier. They happen and their gone and you deal with their aftermath. You rescue people, you provide food, medicine, and water, you build temporary housing, you write a bunch o big checks, and you rebuild. The Gulf disaster is much worse. This is puncturing one of the earth's arteries and not being able to stop the blood flow. It's not even being able to get to the wound as it continues to bleed.

The original spill is completely BP fault for not following the most basic rules of safety and/or listening to thier own engineers.

The follow-up is completely the Governments fault for not following the most basic rules in Fema/Governor/Corp response.

simple as that.

Looking back: It was not preventable once it hit critical mass. (not getting into MMS/BP failures).

It was/still is containable with a bit of communication.

[mardi gras skin]

The mistake was digging the well in the first place.

I feel the same way about New Orleans. The mistake was building that city in the first place. The city is several feet below sea level...houses are built on telephone poles pounded in the dirt deep enough to find solid ground. Its basically a man made island and the only way out is on I-10 or across Pontchartrain so evacuation is ridiculous. And the populace is, for the most part, brain addled...unable to figure out what to do in a crisis.

Everyone who lived on the Gulf Coast knew that a well placed Hurricane would wipe that place out. The best thing to do after the Hurricane was complete the evacuation and let the Bayou have the land back.

[Thiebear]

Its really Fords fault for creating the affordable car. (everyone should work within biking distance).

Lets get everyone out of Tornado alley.

Nobody can live on the mississippi.

Florida needs to be evacuated due to Hurricanes.

DC due to bullets.

Arizona due to kidnappings

[CrabR]

I can truthfully say in the next election i will vote against the incumbent regardless of party

I am feed up with both parties.

[mardi gras skin]

Hurricanes are easier. They happen and their gone and you deal with their aftermath. You rescue people, you provide food, medicine, and water, you build temporary housing, you write a bunch o big checks, and you rebuild. The Gulf disaster is much worse. This is puncturing one of the earth's arteries and not being able to stop the blood flow. It's not even being able to get to the wound as it continues to bleed.

I lived through several Hurricanes. None of the are easy. Katrina made them all look like rain showers. No one was prepared to respond to the extent of damage Katrina brought.

I would much rather live through the spill than live through Katrina 2.0.

[Dan T.]

Criticizing Bush for staying in that classroom for a few minutes after getting the news of the second plane is a cheap shot that people continue to take. It's an easy dig, given the visuals of him sitting there with a children's book, but it's wrong.

[Redskins Diehard]

I hope Obama let's go, and stop trying to be politically correct. I don;t know what people want him to say in a speech. I know he is toutingthe line between the provate and public sector, but enough is enough. Keep it real Obama. If I was Gibbs I would tell him to tell the people the absolute truth. This Gary Carter thing is getting out of hand.

It never gets old hearing about Gary Carter in the 86 World Series...

[Chicken Fried]

Yeah, if only we had a real commander in chief. Ya know, a guy who is good at taking charge, prioritizing, and leading during crises.

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:evilg:

This post is a perfect example of today's American liberalism. They realize their president is absolutely so horrible that they can't even defend him anymore and so then deflect attention to one moment in another presidency that happened 9 years ago.

[Burgold]

This post is a perfect example of today's American liberalism.

This post is a perfect of today's partisanship which encourages division and hate versus constructive debate. (And Madison.... yours was a cheap shot too)

Edit: And Mardis,

I didn't mean to imply that a hurricanes were easy or not horrific. Just that because they end and the destruction is done after a certain point, it might make clean up easier.

[stevenaa]

Have to admit that I was hoping that we'd elected JFK 2.

I didn't expect to like every thing he did. But I expected him to lead.

I think he's been attacked for so many things, that he's trying to make sure that his enemies don't have anything to attack him with.

Whereas I think that what America needs (and, maybe, wants) is somebody to lead.

Or maybe he's simply not the leader he was sold as??

[Duckus]

This post is a perfect example of today's American liberalism. They realize their president is absolutely so horrible that they can't even defend him anymore and so then deflect attention to one moment in another presidency that happened 9 years ago.

Well put. It is classic liberalism to deflect criticism and attack your opponent using examples of past failures. That is why the right would NEVER, EVER, stoop to the level of brining up someone like former President Jimmy Carter. Or using former President Jimmy Carter as an example of bad liberal leadership. Never. It would be so unlike them. They live in the now.

[DixieFlatline]

Who was the idiot that wanted to cap their responsibility at 75mil?

I read in an article this morning that Congress originally capped the responsibility at $75 million because they wanted to ensure smaller companies wouldn't be left out. If it was too high or unlimited, then they wouldn't want to take the risk of getting into the business.

[Larry]

I feel the same way about New Orleans. The mistake was building that city in the first place. The city is several feet below sea level...houses are built on telephone poles pounded in the dirt deep enough to find solid ground. Its basically a man made island and the only way out is on I-10 or across Pontchartrain so evacuation is ridiculous. And the populace is, for the most part, brain addled...unable to figure out what to do in a crisis.

It is also, however, the only possible place where you have access to the Mississippi, and to the ocean.

"Move New Orleans someplace else" isn't an option.

Not saying that that means "ignore the risks that also come with that location". I'm saying that that means "the city needs to be in a place which has known risks, so let's prepare for the risks."

[Kilmer17]

I didn't even listen to the speech. What could he say? If he had a solution the problem would be solved. I don't need to hear that they're working hard or that they are going to keep the pressure up on BP and themselves and never rest.

I hate speeches that are designed because you need to "show leadership" or look "Presidential" Rah Rah doesn't solve problems... not this kind of problem anyway.

And yeah, Obama's instinct to build concensus and defer to experts is a weakness in a number of situations possibly including this one. Although, I think the biggest problem with this one is that they simply don't have a solution and don't know what to do and the damn thing should have never been builtin the first place under those circumstances. If you can't cope with the worst case scenario... a predictable worst case scenario, then you have no business drilling there in the first place.

Again, he could very simply state that he is suspending the Jones Act and bringing in countries and businesses that know how to handle this kind of event.

He should have done it 2 months ago. But now we've got another "czar" who can take some blame.

This is a failure of EPIC proportions on the part of Obama.

He chose the political route and didnt want to own this at first. His team thought he'd look better if he stayed at arms length and just kept saying BP was responsible.

[ECU-ALUM]

For the 2nd night in a row even Jon Stewart went after him.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/day-58---the-strife-aquatic

[Burgold]

Short of nuking it... you think there was a solution that would have stopped the leak months ago and made everything sunshine and rainbows?

[Thiebear]

Short of nuking it... you think there was a solution that would have stopped the leak months ago and made everything sunshine and rainbows?

Several that would have it be a fraction of what it is.. yes.

[Kilmer17]

Im not blaming him for not being able to stop the leak.

Im blaming him for 1- The disaster at MMS. 2- Deciding to let BP alone decide how to stop it. 3- The subsequent clean up debacle.

We could have been containing and cleaning up a large percent of oil. We STILL have equipment on stand by because the GOvt cant figure out what to do with it.

[Burgold]

Fair. I wouldn't argue that the gov has clean hands. I just get the sense that this is beyond them and beyond everyone and I don't think the usual political blame game is really appropriate.

[Thiebear]

Monday, May 6, 2010 - 10:52 AM

(edit Thiebear)^^^^^^ How many days ago was this? How many have been rectified SINCE this astonished the Press? ^^^^(edit)

When State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley refused to tell reporters which countries have offered assistance to help respond to the BP oil spill, the State Department press corps was flabbergasted.

"As a policy matter, we're not going to identify those offers of assistance until we are able to see, you know, what we need, assess the ongoing situation. And as we accept those offers of assistance, we will inform you," Crowley said.

Reporters pointed out that the Bush administration identified assistance offers after the Katrina disaster, so what is this, a new policy? They pressed Crowley, but he refused to budge.

----------------------

This ends the discussion on what we "could" have done.

How many hundreds of pieces of equipment from the original 13.

Plus the other countries that WOULD have jumped on board once it started rolling out.

Burgold: Idleness ended all hopes for sunshine and rainbows.

May 13th: Kevin Costner offers his machines to help with the Spill....

June 13th: BP looks into it?

What?

[Larry]

We STILL have equipment on stand by because the GOvt cant figure out what to do with it.

Just pointing out that that doesn't prove incompetence.

Ever seen a major construction project (road expansion, people working on electric lines, big buildings, whatever) that didn't have people and equipment doing nothing right at that instant?

(I agree, though, this operation is spilling "fail" all over the place. Everybody's covered in it.)

[Kilmer17]

Just pointing out that that doesn't prove incompetence.

Ever seen a major construction project (road expansion, people working on electric lines, big buildings, whatever) that didn't have people and equipment doing nothing right at that instant?

(I agree, though, this operation is spilling "fail" all over the place. Everybody's covered in it.)

By itself you are correct.

But it's just one piece of the failtrain.

[Boss_Hogg]

Wow! Even Chris "He makes my leg tingle" Matthews is trashing Obama.

Bad news for the dems.

[Burgold]

Monday, May 6, 2010 - 10:52 AM

(edit Thiebear)^^^^^^ How many days ago was this? How many have been rectified SINCE this astonished the Press? ^^^^(edit)

When State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley refused to tell reporters which countries have offered assistance to help respond to the BP oil spill, the State Department press corps was flabbergasted.

"As a policy matter, we're not going to identify those offers of assistance until we are able to see, you know, what we need, assess the ongoing situation. And as we accept those offers of assistance, we will inform you," Crowley said.

Reporters pointed out that the Bush administration identified assistance offers after the Katrina disaster, so what is this, a new policy? They pressed Crowley, but he refused to budge.

----------------------

This ends the discussion on what we "could" have done.

How many hundreds of pieces of equipment from the original 13.

Plus the other countries that WOULD have jumped on board once it started rolling out.

Burgold: Idleness ended all hopes for sunshine and rainbows.

Yeah, I think they were fooled into believing it wasn't as bad as it was. I think the gov't believed what BP was selling... that this would be contained and fixed within the week when they activated the backup shut down device or when they dropped the dome.

So, on that level the government deserves our anger. Still, I hold to the notion that they really did believe they were doing what they could and were just wrong and didn't have a good solution. Now, in terms of containment you guys are right. The more ships, devices, etc. out there to collect or dam the better. As for fixing it... I'm not sure that those other hands would have helped.

I'd like to believe that they were all doing all they could. Afterall, there is zero upside in letting this problem linger, fester, and grow!