RCP: MSNBC Trashes Obama's Address: Compared To Carter, "I Don't Sense Executive Command"

[Thiebear]

So what your saying is on MAY 6th they didnt know.

But then the Press' Flabergastedness then woke them up and 40 days later.

OHH wait...

They STILL haven't accepted the 13+ Countries and implemented all the States offers.

and Mr. Costners equipment.

So after May 6th do you still think they did everything they could when they 'realized' it was bigger?

On June 17th do you think they've woken up?

*******************

This is what i don't understand:

I've seen some of the posters in here DESTROY a story that was not written correctly or missing pieces.

And i know for a fact i'm the 400th most intelligent person in this 2 page thread.

I'll never understand how ideology trumps investigative vigor.

[Kilmer17]

Yeah, I think they were fooled into believing it wasn't as bad as it was. I think the gov't believed what BP was selling... that this would be contained and fixed within the week when they activated the backup shut down device or when they dropped the dome.

So, on that level the government deserves our anger. Still, I hold to the notion that they really did believe they were doing what they could and were just wrong and didn't have a good solution. Now, in terms of containment you guys are right. The more ships, devices, etc. out there to collect or dam the better. As for fixing it... I'm not sure that those other hands would have helped.

I'd like to believe that they were all doing all they could. Afterall, there is zero upside in letting this problem linger, fester, and grow!

Well, here's the second part of that.

1- The whole "Never let a good crisis go to waste" theory. Which is why we saw Obama talking more about Cap and Tax and the knee jerk reaction shutting down offshore drilling etc.

2- By NOT getting involved right away, they took a calculated risk that the public opinion would stay SOLELY on BP and not affect them. That's the "keep it at arms length" idea, and why it took so long for the Govt to actually do ANYTHING.

They didnt believe BP, and they havent been doing everything they could.

[Zguy28]

I know what we need, we need some guys who are super-smart and willing to fight their guts out.

[Madison Redskin]

This post is a perfect example of today's American liberalism. They realize their president is absolutely so horrible that they can't even defend him anymore and so then deflect attention to one moment in another presidency that happened 9 years ago.

I'm not going to defend Obama's response to the oil spill because, at least to an outside observer like myself, it seems less than inspiring. In other words, he's done a crappy job responding to this fiasco.

That said, the thread invites comparisons to former Presidents and, when we're talking about "Executive Command," it's pretty hard to ignore what GWB did on 9/11.

[Burgold]

I mostly do. Though certainly what you have put out there modifies that. In terms of stopping the leak I think they did try everything and bent a bunch of resources and brainpower to meet the problem.

I certainly have to agree that in terms of containment and clean up that having more bodies on the ground (or in the sea) would have been beneficial. Would it have been potentially cumbersome with people getting in each other's way and a nightmare of coordination? Possibly, but I think that's a pretty wimpy excuse for not taking the hand that was offered.

So, to that degree, I'll say they could have done more or accepted more. And maybe it's the naive idealist in me that surfaces from time to time, but I do think that they did what they believed was best and haven't been shirking their responsibility. Were they right? That's a different question. You can work your arse off and be wrong and screw things up.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I just don't understand what people expect Obama to do with this. No one has come up with a way to stop the flow.

Its not the same as Katrina, either. The criticism of Bush was that he didn't react to the situation. People were stuck in New Orleans without food or water for days waiting for FEMA to get them out of there. The criticism was not that he didn't get the water out of New Orleans fast enough. It was that he didn't react and do anything fast enough. (Then the right wing responded by blaming people for living there, etc. etc.)

If anyone can tell me what Obama is supposed to do, how he's supposed to stop this oil from flowing, I'm all ears.

[Kilmer17]

I just don't understand what people expect Obama to do with this. No one has come up with a way to stop the flow.

Its not the same as Katrina, either. The criticism of Bush was that he didn't react to the situation. People were stuck in New Orleans without food or water for days waiting for FEMA to get them out of there. The criticism was not that he didn't get the water out of New Orleans fast enough. It was that he didn't react and do anything fast enough. (Then the right wing responded by blaming people for living there, etc. etc.)

If anyone can tell me what Obama is supposed to do, how he's supposed to stop this oil from flowing, I'm all ears.

Read the thread. We've made plenty of suggestions and criticisms for what he did and didnt do.

[Burgold]

... some are even legitimate.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Read the thread. We've made plenty of suggestions and criticisms for what he did and didnt do.

I just went through it again. I don't get it.

Let me put it this way, is there something other than a random thought on a message board, that some expert in engineering or deep sea oil drilling or some other person with legitimate expertise has indicated is a way to stop this oil from flowing and/or to contain it somehow?

[Burgold]

I do think that allowing in other nation's ships to work in the containment effort might have proved beneficial. I think TB has a point in that. More ships can cover more ground. Otherwise, I think much of the anger is frustration or political.

[Kilmer17]

Our complaints arent limitted to the inability to STOP the leak.

Again, reread the thread, we've talked about help from other countries being denied, we've talked about the lack of urgency and the attempts to keep it at arms length. About relying solely on BP.

And from the 1st post, the fact that 3 of the biggest liberals on MSNBC are comparing him to Carter and talking about how bad he has been.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I do think that allowing in other nation's ships to work in the containment effort might have proved beneficial. I think TB has a point in that. More ships can cover more ground. Otherwise, I think much of the anger is frustration or political.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but is there any basis for actually thinking that would help.

I mean, the ocean (gulf, whatever) is a big place. Plus, its deep. Its not just the surface of the water that needs to be "netted" or something, you have to five miles down.

As far as I can tell from watching crappy news channels, no expert yet has come up with a way to contain or stop this thing. Which blows, but how is that Obama's fault? Or how does it show "bad leadership" that he - like everyone else in the world - doesn't have an answer to stop this disaster?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Our complaints arent limitted to the inability to STOP the leak.

Again, reread the thread, we've talked about help from other countries being denied, we've talked about the lack of urgency and the attempts to keep it at arms length. About relying solely on BP.

And from the 1st post, the fact that 3 of the biggest liberals on MSNBC are comparing him to Carter and talking about how bad he has been.

I realize a bunch of liberals on msnbc say he sucks. I want to know if anything in regards to stoppping the leak or containing it would have actually helped.

Is there any reason to actually think that other countries would have been able to stop and/or contain the leak if we let them help? Is there any reason to think that if Obama had not listened to BP (who, by the way, basically totally lied about how big the leak was) would have been able to stop and/or contain it more quickly.

This is a freaking disaster that no one has an answer to, as far as I can tell. And I don't know why the President gets blamed for not having the answer either.

[Burgold]

I'm 85% with you. And I don't think the government has been lazy or incompetent. I think they've been out of their depth (excuse the pun) which is why I have a problem with the well in the first place. If you have no mechanism for dealing with a forseeable problem then you shouldn't be drilling there.

I do think that more ships could help or at least wouldn't hurt in place buoys or scooping up oil or placing dispercents or whatever... I don't think the government has been inactive or failed to act in ways which would have solved or ended this problem.

[Kilmer17]

Because he is the head of the Govt.

The Govt who approved the plans for this rig in a matter of minutes, while knowing that no one in MMS had the technical ability to even understand what it was or how it worked.

The Govt who STILL refuses to suspend the Jones act to allow Dutch Companies from assisting us using better technology and ships that CAN take the oil out of the water, but because the ships werent built in the US and dont have US crews, union laws (Jones act) prohibits them from being used.

The Govt who still insists this is BPs sole responsibility to stop even though BP has shown no ability whatsoever to do so. It's past time for the Govt to step in and bring in other people to take over.

When the Chris MAtthews, Olbermanns, Finemans, Maddows, etc etc etc are calling him out, doesnt that mean something to you?

[Hunter44]

I think the government should stay out of it. Really, don't we have enough government meddling??

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Because he is the head of the Govt.

The Govt who approved the plans for this rig in a matter of minutes, while knowing that no one in MMS had the technical ability to even understand what it was or how it worked.

The Govt who STILL refuses to suspend the Jones act to allow Dutch Companies from assisting us using better technology and ships that CAN take the oil out of the water, but because the ships werent built in the US and dont have US crews, union laws (Jones act) prohibits them from being used.

The Govt who still insists this is BPs sole responsibility to stop even though BP has shown no ability whatsoever to do so. It's past time for the Govt to step in and bring in other people to take over.

When the Chris MAtthews, Olbermanns, Finemans, Maddows, etc etc etc are calling him out, doesnt that mean something to you?

For the record, and I have a long record of this despite my "reputation" in the Tailgate, Chris Matthews, Olbermann, Maddow, etc. are asshats. No, they don't mean much to me.

The government has stepped in. They just don't know what to do. Yes, allowing them to drill there in the first place was a big **** up. But, that bad decision was made a long time ago by someone other than this President (and other than the last President also, I'm not blaming Bush).

But the fact is that BP is the responsible party for this disaster. The fact is the government is trying to clean up. And the fact is that no one has an answer for this problem. Its not for lack of trying, or lack of leadership. Its because BP convinced some government agent years ago that they were ready for this and that government agent was a lazy sack of **** who didn't even read through the proposal most likely. And its because we were desperate as a country to try to solve an energy problem and we pushed things through without doing our diligence. But its not because Obama didn't respond or kept something at arm's length.

Someone made a comment about "not letting a disaster go to waste" for political gain. Is the political gain here being attempted by the President, or by the critics of him?

[Hunter44]

Because he is the head of the Govt.

The Govt who approved the plans for this rig in a matter of minutes, while knowing that no one in MMS had the technical ability to even understand what it was or how it worked.

Wasn't it Bush's government that did that?

The Govt who STILL refuses to suspend the Jones act to allow Dutch Companies from assisting us using better technology and ships that CAN take the oil out of the water, but because the ships werent built in the US and dont have US crews, union laws (Jones act) prohibits them from being used.

True, but if it was that easy wouldn't it have been done by now?

The Govt who still insists this is BPs sole responsibility to stop even though BP has shown no ability whatsoever to do so. It's past time for the Govt to step in and bring in other people to take over.

It is their responsibility and they have all the toys to fix it, the government doesn't....

When the Chris MAtthews, Olbermanns, Finemans, Maddows, etc etc etc are calling him out, doesnt that mean something to you?

Not really, they're all crazy lib's. Why should we listen to them now if we shouldn't have listened to them before??:cool:

[Kilmer17]

The buck stops here.

Remember the 8 years the leftwing here said that ad nauseum?

[December90]

Well, to be fair, ever since the election, MSNBC has been getting more and more steamed at the sad reality: Obama actually isn't the socialist that they wanted. He's way too moderate.

:ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols:

Now that is funny. you should consider trying out for "Last Comic Standing"

[Thiebear]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but is there any basis for actually thinking that would help.

I mean, the ocean (gulf, whatever) is a big place. Plus, its deep. Its not just the surface of the water that needs to be "netted" or something, you have to five miles down.

As far as I can tell from watching crappy news channels, no expert yet has come up with a way to contain or stop this thing. Which blows, but how is that Obama's fault? Or how does it show "bad leadership" that he - like everyone else in the world - doesn't have an answer to stop this disaster?

The OCEAN is huge: The spill was not.

You get your booms, skimmers and ships with Hay working in a crescent shape as its leaving the initial spill area.

Have the different countries working different locations to reduce 'conflict'.

You have tracking software updating the ships as if this was and episode of Deadliest Catch. Track the thickest flows from ground zero out..

the most serious gear in the most serious areas.

The least effective gear in the thinnest areas.

I'd give them credit if they started this TODAY.

BP is responsible for the 80foot circle that is the PIPE...

WE are responsible for the rest.

This is how crisis reaction works ... you attack the spill, don't let it attack you.

[stevenaa]

There's more to leadership then just solving the initial crisis. Obama is failing all over the place on this. Only the blind will refuse to see this. When a ship is sinking, even if it can't be saved, strong leadership is essential. There are resources wating on the sidelines. Seems like the more brains and braun focused regionally the better.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

The OCEAN is huge: The spill was not.

You get your booms, skimmers and ships with Hay working in a crescent shape as its leaving the initial spill area.

Have the different countries working different locations to reduce 'conflict'.

You have tracking software updating the ships as if this was and episode of Deadliest Catch. Track the thickest flows from ground zero out..

the most serious gear in the most serious areas.

The least effective gear in the thinnest areas.

I'd give them credit if they started this TODAY.

BP is responsible for the 80foot circle that is the PIPE...

WE are responsible for the rest.

This is how crisis reaction works ... you attack the spill, don't let it attack you.

Well, we just have to disagree that "we are responsible for the rest." I think we are just coming from totally different viewpoints on this, if that's how you're looking at it.

[Thiebear]

How does BP clean the spill while plugging the hole?

13+ countries offered to help: Only we can approve that.

FEMA, Coast Guard, Reserves, Corp of Engineers below to us.

Army, Airforce, Navy, Marines belong to us.

States sending help belong to us.

BP could have used Mr. Costners skimmers.. but if not we should have used them.

Fema + Governors + Corp of Engr live for this...

*I had the job for a couple years* Nothing is a surprise, we've seen it all before..

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Shouldn't BP thought about that before they lobbied, received permission and started drilling? Oh, and they didnt' follow the few safety guidelines they promulgated.

How is this not their responsibility? I agree the government needs to step in now and aggressively take control to fix the problem (if possible), but its 100% BP's responsibility.

This is like blaming the government for the wall street collapse. Except, now you want them to spend time and money fixing the problem. But no one blames the government for actually causing the collapse. (Well, maybe some do, I don't know.)