USAToday: Judge Rules National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional

[SEF]

Gawd forbid we have a secular government. There might be some rational dialog on social issues. I love this decision. It's obviously meaningless in this country. But, you have to love the sound of the collective Christian's panties bunching up.

[greenspandan]

Is Martin Luther King day unconstitutional because he was predominantly a religious leader?

uhhhhhh what?

explain to me how you are being forced to do something against your will. Proclamations are much different than laws, and this is an extremely vague sort of proclamation. As a social libertarian I definitely will defend your right to free expression and freedom from government tyranny, even with my own life if necessary. But this is just ridiculous, you do not have a right to be free from being offended. Its part of the human experience, get used to it.

haha, i never said i was being forced to do anything. and me being offended is not what makes this an issue -- constitution is. the government is urging people to pray, which legally requires a pretty loose interpretation of the first amendment.

Don't most, if not all forms of religion have prayer? It seems many feel the NDoP is just for christians. If it were, then i could see the judges point, but it isnt so I dont. How is the NDoP upholding any one set of religious beliefs?

"most" is not "all", so therefore even if you discount atheism, some religions are necessarily being respected more than others by a national prayer day.

Predicto is right, though -- the unfortunate downside of actually fighting for the separation of church and state is that it usually just galvanizes the religious majority into voting for more nods towards christianity from government, not less.

[SnyderShrugged]

Gawd forbid we have a secular government. There might be some rational dialog on social issues. I love this decision. It's obviously meaningless in this country. But, you have to love the sound of the collective Christian's panties bunching up.

2 things.

1. why would this only upset Christians, since the NDoP is meant as prayer for people of all faiths?

2. Why do you seem to get an erection at the thought of Christians getting upset anyway?

[greenspandan]

1. why would this only upset Christians, since the NDoP is meant as prayer for people of all faiths?

honestly, i wish i knew. although i guess it's understandable. as far as i can tell, they are the most threatened and persecuted religious sect in america.

[SEF]

2 things.

1. why would this only upset Christians, since the NDoP is meant as prayer for people of all faiths?

2. Why do you seem to get an erection at the thought of Christians getting upset anyway?

1. Sure it is... I bet the Hindus will riot when they hear about this.

2. Why are you pondering my erection? Does your panties being all bunched up make you horny?

[Jumbo]

Why do you seem to get an erection at the thought of Christians getting upset anyway?

Why are you pondering my erection? Does your panties being all bunched up make you horny?

SS, I sure hope you learn soon, cuz you're running out of rope and we'd rather keep you around since you're kinda interesting.

Both you boys can take a few days off to manage your blood flow and/or potential underwear issues.

[DieselPwr44]

SS, I sure hope you learn soon, cuz you're running out of rope and we'd rather keep you around since you're kinda interesting.

Both you boys can take a few days off to manage your blood flow and/or potential underwear issues.

No one dared to ask his business no one dared to make a slip

for the stranger there among them had a big iron on his hip

Big iron on his hip

[Larry]

explain to me how you are being forced to do something against your will. Proclamations are much different than laws, and this is an extremely vague sort of proclamation. As a social libertarian I definitely will defend your right to free expression and freedom from government tyranny, even with my own life if necessary. But this is just ridiculous, you do not have a right to be free from being offended. Its part of the human experience, get used to it.

But he does have the right to not have his government advocating religious matters to him.

And yep, this day is pretty clearly about advocating prayer.

(Me, I don't have a major problem with it, because I don't think it's advocating a specific religion. But yeah, I do see some legitimacy to the complaint.)

[Larry]

Don't most, if not all forms of religion have prayer? It seems many feel the NDoP is just for christians. If it were, then i could see the judges point, but it isnt so I dont. How is the NDoP upholding any one set of religious beliefs?

You really believe that the people who voted for this law, people who were, what, 95% of one particular religion, didn't have one particular religion in mind when they voted for the government to advocate?

[Jumbo]

I love that song (and other Marty Robbins' tunes) and have in it multiple formats from vinyl to MP3/4. When I was paid to sing in my distant past, it was one I snuck in at times.

[SKOALSKIN]

National Breast Cancer Awareness Day is offensive to me because I do not have breasts, and therefore unconstitutional, and must be cancelled.

I have a belly button. :saber:

[mjah]

True if they are advocating a Jihad, but not as much as the socialist agenda that does need to eliminate Judeo Christian principles to destroy a nation as great as the uSA or rants by the Godless or morally corrupt.

Now we just need an actual socialist agenda in this nation, plus proof of correlation between godlessness and moral corruption, plus a nation that was founded on uniquely Judeo-Christian principles in the first place.

Once we have all three of those things, instead of the current zero, then your prophecy will be complete.

[JohnLockesGhost]

Doesn't the First Amendment read "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."? Forgive me, I'm going on memory here.

So it would seem a proclamation issue by the President can in no way violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause. The president could issue a proclamation declaring himself the God-King of Venus and it wouldn't violate the Constitution.

This is the kind of issue that should just be decided democratically.

[Destino]

This is outrageous and needs to be over turned quickly. I'm getting sick of the notion that imposed secularism is a nuetral position.

[Larry]

This is outrageous and needs to be over turned quickly. I'm getting sick of the notion that imposed secularism is a nuetral position.

Now all you have to do is find a single case of the government attempting to impose secularism on the citizens, and you'll have one heck of an argument.

[Seabee1973]

congress is never going to remove "in god we trust" from our money (or "under god" from the pledge allegiance, for that matter, which was also added during the red scare). there'd just be too much outrage. anyone that voted for it would be demonized and probably thrown out of office at the next election.

the intention of adding those phrases was to acknowledge christianity and please christians, which is a pretty clear violation of the bill of rights, but oh well, whatever. those phrases aren't as offensive as a national holiday in which the government urges people to pray.

Hoe come i dont get paid day off on this so called holiday

[Seabee1973]

I love that song (and other Marty Robbins' tunes) and have in it multiple formats from vinyl to MP3/4. When I was paid to sing in my distant past, it was one I snuck in at times.

Dont you mean when you paid people to listen to you sing?

[Destino]

Now all you have to do is find a single case of the government attempting to impose secularism on the citizens, and you'll have one heck of an argument.

I don't accept the way you're framing this debate. Prayer and religion have never been an individual practice. They are cultural and community activities and have been since their creation. Trying to remove them from public areas and force them into exclusively private settings is imposing secularism IMO. The majority (vast) believes in prayer of some form and those who do not are not wounded by it an any way. It's not the national day of prayer and throw stones at atheist's day.

[Jumbo]

Dont you mean when you paid people to listen to you sing?

Captive audiences rock!

[Mickalino]

Last I checked, no one has ever died or become injured as a result of national prayer day. Yet people are acting like it is doing harm somehow.

[Popeman38]

Doesn't the First Amendment read "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

NDoP is in no way a law.

[Skins24]

You really believe that the people who voted for this law, people who were, what, 95% of one particular religion, didn't have one particular religion in mind when they voted for the government to advocate?

Doesn't matter what they had in mind fact is they didn't specify any religion. And all religions pray (I know it was said ealier that not necessarily all do, but I can't think of one that doesn't :whoknows: )

Exactly what part of the constitution is this violating?

And apparently this frivolous lawsuit was allowed to move forward because FFRF was shown to be "injured" by this day of prayer.

You've have to got be ( )ing me

The law is not enforced or enforcable, nor is it forcing anyone to do anything. Pretty sure most American's don't even know when the day is. Outside of maybe a 30 second blurb on the news on the day, it has no news/media coverage at all. Are they seriously wasting court time and money claiming they're somehow affected by a national day of prayer?

Wow, what a bunch of p(female reporductive organ)s

**

Atheist: What’s this fly doing in my soup?

Waiter: Praying.

Atheist: Very funny. I can’t eat this. Take it back.

Waiter: You see? The fly’s prayers were answered.

[Larry]

I don't accept the way you're framing this debate. Prayer and religion have never been an individual practice. They are cultural and community activities and have been since their creation. Trying to remove them from public areas and force them into exclusively private settings is imposing secularism IMO. The majority (vast) believes in prayer of some form and those who do not are not wounded by it an any way. It's not the national day of prayer and throw stones at atheist's day.

So, the guy who refers to "the government shouldn't advocate religious matters" as "imposing secularism" and "Trying to remove them from public areas and force them into exclusively private settings" doesn't like the way I'm "framing this debate"?

[greenspandan]

a bunch of you are saying what's the big deal, so the government encourages people to pray, what's the harm? well the founding fathers thought it was important enough to put some pretty strong language forbidding it, so i guess your beef is really with them.

[Oldskool]

I actually agree with this to an extent. The original intent (and the correct interpretation) of the separation of church and state was to ensure that there would not be a unifying national religion but to allow states to do this at their discretion.