No Crossover - Allan Iverson (a city racially divided) - kinda long

[tone_dubbz]

Did anyone catch the 30/30 special on ESPN last night about Allan Iverson?

It was done by an award winning director from the area (Hampton Roads) and he did a descent job trying not to be biased.

The only reason I was very interested with this story is because I work in Newport News, the city where Iverson came from.

Fortunately I've been employed with the same company for over 10 years, and I've come to notice that there is an entirely different culture here in the Peninsula (Hampton/Newport News) than there is in the South Side (Va Beach, Norfolk, Chesapeake).

Without going into too much detail about the history of this area, this is a very old city. African Slaves were shipped here back in 1619 (Fort Monroe). This area was mainly a confederate state, and there are way too many historic battle grounds here that took place during the civil war to name. I don't know if this led to a perpetual animosity between the two races, but last night had me thinking about the people I work with.

My job employs different Ethnic Races (China, India, Japan, Germany, France) from all over the world. But I would guestimate that the majority of the employees here are black and white.

When I first stared working here, I appreciated this place because it was full of diversity. But after a while, I began to notice a small amount of disdain between certain races here. To put it short, I had a couple of white employees talk about black people and actually use the N word in front of me and some of the black employees would talk about white folks and use terms like redneck and trailor trash. I guess they felt they could confide in me since I'm not either race (Phillipino).

This made me feel awkward and uncomfortable to say the least.

Anyway, after watching the documentary, it made me loath this city even more.

The only diversity in the community was brought in by the military, and the mind set of some of the newport news/hampton born residence is kind of disgusting. I don't know if they're are just stuck in the old fashioned ways and that discrimination is just sown into the fabric of their upbringing.

I mean, I live about 40 miles away in Va Beach and it is nothing like this out here. It seems to me like we all live in peaceful harmony together and are more than able to co-exist. And the relationship I'm in now (girlfriend is black/white and I'm asian) is confirmation that maybe the racial tension is just isolated in that area.

Please don't take this thread to the wrong way. Not all people of all races in this area are like this. I work around some really great people, and not once did I ever judge them from their ethnic back grounds. But last night just validated my suspicions about some of my fellow co-workers being racist.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying achieve from this thread. Maybe some enlightenment or reasonable explanation on how and why things are still like this here.

[mcsluggo]

I didn't see the documentary... but AI has certainly been a lightning rod for racial tension since AT LEAST that bowling alley incident way back when he was in high school.

If you go to SW VA, and step away from the college towns, there is (or was, 10 years ago, at least) still quite a bit of racial division, and mutual mistrust. Unfortunately that sort of thing takes a while to recede... but thankfully it IS receding, and EVERYWHERE in the US. But it is receding more slowly in some places than in others

[Rocky21]

I heard The Sports Guy say that this 30/30 documentary would make me feel differently about Iverson.

He's wrong. It won't.

[RonArtest15]

I heard The Sports Guy say that this 30/30 documentary would make me feel differently about Iverson.

He's wrong. It won't.

Well, I take it that you didn't even watch the program. Your mind is already made up.

Anyways....I thought that this was the best 30/30 that was on ESPN. The underlying issues that were focused on in the documentary were far bigger than Allen Iverson. For example, the way that the tourist brochures alters the wording on how African men/women were brought to the Hampton Roads areas in search of "jobs" back in 1619. I forget the exact way that it was phrased, but there was ZERO mention of them being slaves. It goes on and on.

Iverson was forced to grow up VERY fast due to his mother not being there (being tied up in the streets). He had the responsibility of raising his sister from the time he was 8-9 years old. No kid should have to go through that. On top of it all, many folks in his old neighborhood aren't happy with him because they don't think that he does enough for the community. Meanwhile, AI is up on a stage crying at a press conference for the scholarships he's created in that very community. He can't win. He's done a lot of dumb things in his life, but I really feel that if you watch the documentary you'll have a better understanding of who he is as a person.

Awesome film.

[VTmike]

Well, I take it that you didn't even watch the program. Your mind is already made up.

Anyways....I thought that this was the best 30/30 that was on ESPN. The underlying issues that were focused on in the documentary were far bigger than Allen Iverson. For example, the way that the tourist brochures alters the wording on how African men/women were brought to the Hampton Roads areas in search of "jobs" back in 1619. I forget the exact way that it was phrased, but there was ZERO mention of them being slaves. It goes on and on.

Iverson was forced to grow up VERY fast due to his mother not being there (being tied up in the streets). He had the responsibility of raising his sister from the time he was 8-9 years old. No kid should have to go through that. On top of it all, many folks in his old neighborhood aren't happy with him because they don't think that he does enough for the community. Meanwhile, AI is up on a stage crying at a press conference for the scholarships he's created in that very community. He can't win. He's done a lot of dumb things in his life, but I really feel that if you watch the documentary you'll have a better understanding of who he is as a person.

Awesome film.

The film really wasn't about Iverson if you look at it in a larger perspective.

This was a race issue between blacks and whites in the 757 and it simply was brought to the forefront with Iverson and his bowling alley incident. The black community rallied behind him, but I think there was a very good point made in the documentary where someone said something to the effect of the blacks in that area certainly need someone to lead their cause but A.I. is not the best example. And he certainly wasn't. Just look at the way he conducted himself on the court where he was cursing out coaches and showing an absolute lack of discipline. I feel bad for the circumstances that he lived in but if blacks want to unite against the discrimination don't use someone like A.I. to catapult your cause.

[blue collar]

The film really wasn't about Iverson if you look at it in a larger perspective.

This was a race issue between blacks and whites in the 757 and it simply was brought to the forefront with Iverson and his bowling alley incident. The black community rallied behind him, but I think there was a very good point made in the documentary where someone said something to the effect of the blacks in that area certainly need someone to lead their cause but A.I. is not the best example. And he certainly wasn't. Just look at the way he conducted himself on the court where he was cursing out coaches and showing an absolute lack of discipline. I feel bad for the circumstances that he lived in but if blacks want to unite against the discrimination don't use someone like A.I. to catapult your cause.

I like AI, but I agree with this. But like the other poster said, he really had no mother, his father was totally out of the picture and he at an early age had to pretty much raise his younger sister. I'm not saying that's an excuse for bad behavior, but it gives you a perspective. Also, I wonder, and it was brought up in the documentary, would everyone would have been as outraged if AI couldn't ball. You noticed that AI was freed 2 weeks before the other guys.

[Rocky21]

Well, I take it that you didn't even watch the program. Your mind is already made up.

You got it.

[Rocky21]

You noticed that AI was freed 2 weeks before the other guys.

And pardoned by Govenor Doug Wilder.

[tone_dubbz]

I like AI, but I agree with this. But like the other poster said, he really had no mother, his father was totally out of the picture and he at an early age had to pretty much raise his younger sister. I'm not saying that's an excuse for bad behavior, but it gives you a perspective. Also, I wonder, and it was brought up in the documentary, would everyone would have been as outraged if AI couldn't ball. You noticed that AI was freed 2 weeks before the other guys.

Another conspiracy was that if Bubba Chuck would have attended Hampton Crabbers instead of Bethel High School, none of this would have happened.

I think regardless if AI couldn't ball, the fight itself was still race inspired.

Animosity between races was still present during those times.

Anyways....I thought that this was the best 30/30 that was on ESPN. The underlying issues that were focused on in the documentary were far bigger than Allen Iverson. For example, the way that the tourist brochures alters the wording on how African men/women were brought to the Hampton Roads areas in search of "jobs" back in 1619. I forget the exact way that it was phrased, but there was ZERO mention of them being slaves. It goes on and on.

Yeah the brochures read that African Americans EMBARKED at Fort Monroe. I guess that's the politically correct term for being forcefully removed from your homeland and shipped off to a foreign country to work against your own will.

[blue collar]

Another conspiracy was that if Bubba Chuck would have attended Hampton Crabbers instead of Bethel High School, none of this would have happened.

I think regardless if AI couldn't ball, the fight itself was still race inspired.

Animosity between races was still present during those times.

You're right, but I do believe because AI was a baller, the outrage was that much greater. You seen when AI was being taken away? They were lined up saying things like, "you'll be alright baby." Forget the other guys, they were showing sympathy to AI.

[MattFancy]

I DVR'd it last night so I'll check it out tonight.

[tone_dubbz]

You're right, but I do believe because AI was a baller, the outrage was that much greater. You seen when AI was being taken away? They were lined up saying things like, "you'll be alright baby." Forget the other guys, they were showing sympathy to AI.

That's definitely true. The other two guys had to wait two weeks to get released after AI was out.

I was surprised that AI was actually represented by the Lawyer for Hampton University. I don't think he even practiced criminal law. Probably there to use his social status to dictate the outcome of the trial.

[ixcuincle]

I just wish there was a way to watch this documentary for those who missed it.

[MattFancy]

I just wish there was a way to watch this documentary for those who missed it.

I thought I read somewhere that ESPN is going to have DVDs of them?

Here ya go:

http://www.espnmediazone.com/press_kits/ESPN_Films/index.htm

[tone_dubbz]

I thought I read somewhere that ESPN is going to have DVDs of them?

Here ya go:

http://www.espnmediazone.com/press_kits/ESPN_Films/index.htm

They're showing a replay tomorrow on ESPN2 at 9:30pm.

I actually talked to one of my co-workers who was born and raised in Newport News.

He was recalling how pep rally's and sporting events were segregate: whites on one side black on the other. This guy is my age, so this really wasn't that long ago. Crazy.

[Rocky21]

There was a guy who used to post in the Tailgate a lot who went to school with Iverson and knew quite a bit about him from back in the day. Anybody remember that guy's name?

He used to say Iverson was a lot worse than people knew about.

[tone_dubbz]

There was a guy who used to post in the Tailgate a lot who went to school with Iverson and knew quite a bit about him from back in the day. Anybody remember that guy's name?

He used to say Iverson was a lot worse than people knew about.

I remember seeing AI at Clubs Shadows in Norfolk before they closed the place down. He didn't seem that bad, but that's coming from someone who doesn't know him personally.

I do remember hearing about this though:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4012197

NBA star Allen Iverson must pay $260,000 for standing idly by and watching his bodyguard beat up another man in a 2005 bar fight, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

He wasn't directly involved, but it just shows what type of people he keeps around him.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Saw it last night. Great documentary. Very well done and really confronts the race issue head on. Did a great job on a very complicated issue. In my experience, people are either too ignorant to really debate race issues or too scared to confront them head on. That goes for all sides and I think this guy did a great job exploring and exposing both sides of this particular case (AI bowling alley brawl) in this particular area (Hampton).

[VTmike]

Saw it last night. Great documentary. Very well done and really confronts the race issue head on. Did a great job on a very complicated issue. In my experience, people are either too ignorant to really debate race issues or too scared to confront them head on. That goes for all sides and I think this guy did a great job exploring and exposing both sides of this particular case (AI bowling alley brawl) in this particular area (Hampton).

Exactly. I think Steve James did an excellent job and it was very interesting hearing about how (someone already mentioned this in the thread but he also mentioned it in the documentary) blacks and whites sat on different sides of the court during pep rallies. It would be like a competition to see what side could cheer louder for players of their race when they were introduced. I didn't live during that time nor have I encountered something so polarizing and it's just amazing to hear things like that occurring. My Mom tells me how black students and white students would get in fights all the time at Garfield HS when she went there in the 70's. Despite all the faults of people and this country, race is something we have come a long way with. Although there is still a long way to go until all bigotry is washed away.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Despite all the faults of people and this country, race is something we have come a long way with. Although there is still a long way to go until all bigotry is washed away.

Have we? This statement seems to be pro forma on these threads. And I always think, is it so?

Anyway, I feel like Iverson is going to be the subject of Doctoral Theses some day. Not so much for who he is, but the idea that he represented in others.

The cliche in sports since the 60s had been "The young guy from the neighborhood who makes it to the big leagues." Iverson may have been the first guy to bring the neighborhood with him and was unapologetic in doing so.

He was representative of a new wave in black identity. And I'm not sure we've ever successfully come to terms with that. The NBA clearly didn't. David Stern has done everything short of paying for tatoo removal in attempt to lose the Iverson influence in the game.

I've always been more interested in Iverson as an "icon" than as a player. I don't know if we will ever see another player like him - and to be honest - I'm not sure I will mind that. I found his teams generally to be unwatchable.

[mcsluggo]

Have we? This statement seems to be pro forma on these threads. And I always think' date=' is it so?

[/quote']

there can be serious debate on HOW FAR race relations have come, or on how far they still need to go.

But I don't think there can be ANY debate on whether or not they have ABSOLUTELY improved. Are you honestly asserting that there has been NO improvement in this area? (or at least questioning whether there has been any?)

[Rocky21]

One thing is for sure.

Allen Iverson will NEVER be a champion. Never.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

I loved the documentary. I think for sure Iverson was involved in the bowling alley brawl (the notion that he dipped out as soon as the first punch was thrown is garbage IMO). I don't think he hit the woman with the chair though. They did try and railroad him, a 15 year conviction for a fight? Thats crazy.

The funniest/most absurd thing in the documentary is definitely all of the conspiracy theories. I can attest that some people really believe in them, especially the HU one.

Overall another solid effort by ESPN. These 30 for 30s and E60 make the channel watchable and should be what ESPN aims to do. Personally, this is my 2nd favorite behind the U.

[Mongo2365]

Being born and raised in New Mexico and then living in the Hampton Roads area for three years was definitely was a bit of culture shock. I didn't see outright racism when I was there but I did see what I called voluntary segregation. I remember when my then fiancee and her friend came out to visit me and they said we went to this one mall and there were nothing but black people there. And they went to Buckroe Beach I think it was and said there were nothing but black people there too. I told her that she went to the black mall and beach. It blew her mind. I explained that it wasn't forced segregation but that's just the way it was. This was in 1995 so I don't know if things have changed since then but I remember that's how it was when I was there.

[Heisenberg]

Being born and raised in New Mexico and then living in the Hampton Roads area for three years was definitely was a bit of culture shock. I didn't see outright racism when I was there but I did see what I called voluntary segregation. I remember when my then fiancee and her friend came out to visit me and they said we went to this one mall and there were nothing but black people there. And they went to Buckroe Beach I think it was and said there were nothing but black people there too. I told her that she went to the black mall and beach. It blew her mind. I explained that it wasn't forced segregation but that's just the way it was. This was in 1995 so I don't know if things have changed since then but I remember that's how it was when I was there.

They haven't as far as I can tell.

Whenever I visit my family in Southeastern VA I always notice how there are the black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods. At the bowling alley the whites are usually on one side and the blacks on the other and it's the same at restaurants are very similar.

It's one of the reasons I hate visiting the area along with the fact that I can always count on hearing racist things being said when I go.