Walterfootball.com : Jimmy Clausen is an Alien Wizard

[rick1796]

I am all for Clausen as our QB. Not just after reading this novel. But mainly all the intangibles about this guy that leads me to believe he is franchise QB material:

Quick Release (no slow wind up like you know who)

Accurate

Pocket Presence (got better throughout collegiate career with mediocre line)

Good Arm

Highly Competitive

Leader

Takes accountability

Motivates teammates

Highly devoted (worked with his WRs in the offseason)

Tough (not frail like Bradford)

Can read a defense (something us skins fans aren't used to...)

Pro System Experience (not spread offense like Bradford)

Coach-able

Adequate size (6-3 is fine, look at drew brees, what is he 6-1?)

Clutch (leads team to comebacks, something I'm not sure Bradford has ever had to do)

Football smarts (seems to have at least twice Campbells football IQ)

...the list could go on.... now I dare someone try to make a list of the negatives that out-weigh these positives...bring it!

Just for record most of the things you listed there are the tangibles. . . .

[Mahons21]

I can't believe these Clausen fanboys. Talk about a man crush, he probably has a Clausen poster for every excuse he gave in that article. Everytime Clausen failed to execute it's someone else's fault. I don't want a QB that needs a ****load of excuses of why they didn't get the job done.

-For every Clausen fan, there is someone like you who is extremely bias against him for whatever reason. Your posts show no objectivity towards Clausen.

Forget his stats/record. What QB trait do you believe Clausen doesn't possess? Decision making? Accuracy? Pocket presence? Arm-strength?

[bobzmuda]

-Link please

I posted the twitter updates from Todd McShay and John Keim last week on one of the Clausen/Bradford threads that said that 10 teams had expressed to each of them maturity concerns about Clausen.

What necessary QB talent don't you believe he possesses?

ie. accuracy, decision making(he's ranked the highest among prospects this year), pocket presence. Don't tell me about his stats or record. From your own personal evaluation what doesn't he possess?

That's the problem. Internet scouting is inherently flawed.

Looking at the college and combine numbers for Vernon Golston and Brian Orakpo, what's the difference between them?

Not much, if anything.

The real difference is that one is mature enough to willing to work at the game, and the other seems content that he was drafted that high.

How does maturity level show up in the game tape? It really doesn't (although I guess one could make the argument that Clausen has shown some immaturity on tape (the announcement, the taunting, etc.)).

Jimmy Williams was supposed to be a 1st round corner. But he had huge maturity issues that pushed him to the 2nd round, and eventually out of the league. Those don't show up on game tape or in the stats. Those things are revealed only to those who are actually involved in the process.

That's why when I hear nearly 1/3 of the league has expressed maturity concerns about Clausen. That's enough to spook me from wanting him at 4. If he was as clean, off the field, as Bradford I'd be much more inclined to take him at 4.

[Mahons21]

I posted the twitter updates from Todd McShay and John Keim last week on one of the Clausen/Bradford threads that said that 10 teams had expressed to each of them maturity concerns about Clausen.

Word

@john_keim

McShay said he's talked to 10 teams w/concerns about Clausen's intangibles. One worry: he's had good coaching throughout. Is he maxed out?

10 teams are discussing his intangibles, not solely maturity. The argument that he may be "maxed out" is the same argument that was made against Peyton Manning, and no I am not comparing the two.

That's the problem. Internet scouting is inherently flawed.

-I'm not quite sure what internet scouting means?

If it means, watching highlights, and reading writeups etc.. I'm not basing my opinion on those.. I'm basing my opinion from watching him play. Have you watched him play (not trying to sound like a dick)?

Looking at the college and combine numbers for Vernon Golston and Brian Orakpo, what's the difference between them?

Not much, if anything.

The real difference is that one is mature enough to willing to work at the game, and the other seems content that he was drafted that high.

Your making it sound like Orakpo has made strides. He came in good and still is good, and hopefully getting better. The problem with Gholston was people overrated his freakish size.

How does maturity level show up in the game tape? It really doesn't (although I guess one could make the argument that Clausen has shown some immaturity on tape (the announcement, the taunting, etc.)).

-I personally don't worry about his maturity. The Shanny's are running the show here now, and immaturity won't be tolerated. In addition Clausen's maturity issues continue to be overrated because of his first year at Notre Dame. BTW Sean Taylor (may he rest in peace) also had maturity issues.

The "taunting" was one game against USC.. BTW Philip Rivers is known for consistently taunting opposing fans. Not comparing the two, but just pointing out you can taunt and still be an extremely good QB

That's why when I hear nearly 1/3 of the league has expressed maturity concerns about Clausen. That's enough to spook me from wanting him at 4. If he was as clean, off the field, as Bradford I'd be much more inclined to take him at 4.

-So your only issue with him is his maturity? Which is an opinion you've made through the opinions of others, rather than your own personal evaluation. Doesn't seem fair to me.

[Going Commando]

Dude it's sad you jumped on the Jimmy Wag over Bradford because of this "article" which is actually just some other bum ranting on a forum.

If you've seen Walterfootball.com ONCE over the past 5 months you would know that the guy who runs this page has a borderline homosexual infatuation going on with Clausen. (I don't mean that to offend anyone- I am actually being dead serious here.... I've never seen ANYTHING like it before on a sports-website posing as "legit".) The first page of his Mock Draft only displays picks 1-16, yet the word 'Clausen' appears 21 times.

If the fact that the only 'exclusive interview' on the entire site is with Clausen doesn't immediately jump out on you, or the 705-word blog post defending Jimmy's height, then just go ahead and read the beginning of his Mock Draft! This guy picks Bradford #1, then discusses [for several paragraphs] how foolish the Rams will be for not picking "The Best NFL-Ready Junior QB in the History of the NFL." C'mon now!

There is a serious bias going on here with Walterfootball, and the only thing "legit" about this site is how much money they pay Google each month to be #1 on the search engine.

Agreed. They have jumped farther into bed with Clausen than any prospect they've ever discussed before. I think the cardinal rule of scouting and draft evaluation is to never marry a prospect. Walterfootball is practically having grandkids with him at this point.

Also this article is crap. It's just a bunch of obnoxious, over the top, sarcastic sophistry which is all you really get from that web site most of the time. It's light in actual film analysis and a lot of their observations aren't grounded in in depth football knowledge. So instead you get a lot generalizations and stats. The website is just not very good. cbssports.com and newerascouting.com are both far superior for their analysis, and they're far more professional. draftnasty.com is excellent, thorough, and professional too but you have to pay for a lot of the best content. If you're willing to pay though, it's probably got the best draft analysis you'll find on the internet.

[mdpell]

On paper Clausen is definitely the most NFL ready QB in this draft. I think the really knock people have on him is that he has peaked and really isnt going to improve in the NFL. Bradford has the upside. This was similar to the Manning/Leaf argument though and look how that worked out. I am still leaning toward Bradford but let's see how they do when they work out for the Skins. I have faith in Allen and Shanahan to get us the best guy in the 4th spot.

[bobzmuda]

Your making it sound like Orakpo has made strides. He came in good and still is good, and hopefully getting better. The problem with Gholston was people overrated his freakish size.

That's the thing, they both are roughly the same size and of the same freakish ability. The real difference between them is what's upstairs. And that information we're just not privy to.

Look at JaMarcus Russell. Amazing arm, great size. His head isn't in it.

-So your only issue with him is his maturity? Which is an opinion you've made through the opinions of others, rather than your own personal evaluation. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Not actually getting a chance to talk to either one of them, I have nothing else to go on. Thus, the inherent problem of "internet" scouting - you can see game tape and stats with your own eyes, but the most important thing, the mental makeup of a player, is something that fans just don't get to know about beforehand.

If only a handful of teams expressed concern, I would feel better about it.

Hell, maybe all of those teams that were worried about maturity issues were trying to lay a smokescreen so Clausen would fall. I don't know if that's true.

I do know that the maturity issue has always been a knock on him, so that makes me really nervous to take him at 4.

If Shannahan takes him, I'll be on board, but nervous.

[Tay]

Walterfootball does have a love fest w/ Clausen, but they are attempting to defend their belief that Clausen in the best QB in the draft. Someone mentioned newerascouting.com as a solid reference. The site is pretty good. One thing I noticed, is that they also have Clausen rated as the #1 QB in this draft. Check out their report on Clausen.

http://www.newerascouting.com/12/jimmy-clausen-scouting-report/

[Mahons21]

That's the thing, they both are roughly the same size and of the same freakish ability. The real difference between them is what's upstairs. And that information we're just not privy to.

Orakpo had more than just freakish size.

Look at JaMarcus Russell. Amazing arm, great size. His head isn't in it.

-Again these are his physical attributes. How about his pocket presence, decision making etc?

Not actually getting a chance to talk to either one of them, I have nothing else to go on. Thus, the inherent problem of "internet" scouting - you can see game tape and stats with your own eyes, but the most important thing, the mental makeup of a player, is something that fans just don't get to know about beforehand.

-While mental makeup is extremely important, I wouldn't call it the most important. Players like Steve Smith and Sean Taylor as I have mentioned, had maturity issues they were able to grow out of and able to emerge as elite players at the respective positions

-If Zorn were our HC, I would be much more worried about maturity issues. With this FO in place, I don't think maturity issues will be much of a concern.

If only a handful of teams expressed concern, I would feel better about it.

@john_keim

McShay said he's talked to 10 teams w/concerns about Clausen's intangibles. One worry: he's had good coaching throughout. Is he maxed out?

-That is the tweet. It isn't necessarily 10 teams that are nervous about his maturity, but also other intangibles such as stated above. Like another poster pointed out, the same argument was made against Peyton Manning.

Hell, maybe all of those teams that were worried about maturity issues were trying to lay a smokescreen so Clausen would fall. I don't know if that's true.

I do know that the maturity issue has always been a knock on him, so that makes me really nervous to take him at 4.

If Shannahan takes him, I'll be on board, but nervous.

-I can respect that, its your opinion and your entitled to it. At least you don't show some unwarranted over the top hatred for the guy, like a few others.

[bedlamVR]

1 man against 22...

BS Clausen is not a superman . You claim he can motivate his players to play better and I am sure you have said in the past the QB can make a mediocre line play better then surely you claiming he was essentially playing against 22 players (his own team) then can he be considered a leader ?

-he consistently put his team ahead in the 4th quarter only to have his defense squander the lead. He probably should have been playing FS too though right?

The same thing could have been said mid season for Jason Campbell .. and throughout his career ....in the pros ...

-His TWO TOP 5 RB's had nothing to do with that? What about the countless defenders from that team that were drafted so high? Give me a break

More inaccurate facts about Jason Campbell . All the tip top defenders who were drafted includes err Carlos Rogers ... since 2003 14 tigers have been drafted on D . Outside Rogers none were taken in the first round . Most are out of the league and the vast majority were day 2 picks .

-Link please

Ask for links when you provide them for your claims . You use this post after post when you cannot be bothered to find a counter claim . Why should other people constantly do your work . I know these twitter feeds were supplied previously, you know they were just lazy ...

What necessary QB talent don't you believe he possesses?

MATURITY

Clausen is a shorter less athletic version of Jason Campbell, without the sucess at the NCAA level .

I don't necessarily think Campbell is the guy of the future I just see Clausen is an inferior version of the same thing we already have .

People say Clausen is a leader because he is ****y and arrogant but countless people say he is not a Rah Rah go team kind of guy . In the locker room he is a quiet guy and there is a recurrent feeling that he is more a fan of himself than the team ..

[zoony]

That's the problem. Internet scouting is inherently flawed.

Well, I'd argue that all scouting period is inherently flawed. NFL Teams have no idea whether a QB will be competitive at the next level.

None.

It's all a crap shoot.

(that said, I still don't like pickle boy. Bradford please)

....

[Going Commando]

I posted the twitter updates from Todd McShay and John Keim last week on one of the Clausen/Bradford threads that said that 10 teams had expressed to each of them maturity concerns about Clausen.

It's such a tired story at this point: "highly drafted junior QB prospect struggles hard because of a lack of maturity"--JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Michael Vick, Rex Grossman, Ryan Leaf, Jeff George.

It's not like he brings anything outstanding to the table. As far as first round QB prospects go, he looks average in just about every general way: stature, arm strength, accuracy, mechanics, production, etc. Look at the diametric response WF has in their analysis of Colt McCoy and you see how inconsistent they are in their coverage. There isn't a whole lot that separates Clausen from McCoy as a prospect yet WF would have you think Clausen is the next Joe Montana and McCoy is consigned to day 3 status.

If teams are getting spooked off by maturity, and the fact that he's a junior is raising alarms, what's the appeal in drafting an otherwise ordinary prospect so high?

[bobzmuda]

Well, I'd argue that all scouting period is inherently flawed. NFL Teams have no idea whether a QB will be competitive at the next level.

None.

It's all a crap shoot.

(that said, I still don't like pickle boy. Bradford please)

....

At least they have more information to make their decisions than we fans do. I think that at least helped some teams take guys like Cade McNown off their board altogether.

[Going Commando]

Walterfootball does have a love fest w/ Clausen, but they are attempting to defend their belief that Clausen in the best QB in the draft. Someone mentioned newerascouting.com as a solid reference. The site is pretty good. One thing I noticed, is that they also have Clausen rated as the #1 QB in this draft. Check out their report on Clausen.

http://www.newerascouting.com/12/jimmy-clausen-scouting-report/

Good point, but that isn't a very good report and it's certainly not one of their finest ones. When I read all of the scouting reports, Matt Miller's are the ones I usually have problems with. Typically Syvertsen is a lot better and more measured and careful with his praise.

I think that report has some inaccuracies and positions that are hard to substantiate. Evaluating QB accuracy is somewhat subjective, but the overwhelming majority of analysts say that Sam Bradford is the most accurate QB they've charted in a decade. Saying Clausen is more accurate is probably false.

Also, this part

Throwing motion fluid and releases the ball high, preventing batted balls.

is completely untrue. Clausen throws with a 3/4 release almost all of the time and in one of the games I saw him play (vs. Pittsburgh) I'm pretty sure he had two passes batted down at the line and hit his offensive lineman in the helmet with another one. He's got a low release point with a low action on the ball.

Miller also sells Clausen short on the mobility section when he says his foot-speed is well below average. I don't think that's the case from my observation. He moves around in the pocket well and he can roll out. I don't see how that makes him below average, unless you are setting the bar for "average" with a guy like Colt McCoy or Zac Robinson. Most prospects aren't that quick.

[demarc007]

Forget his stats/record. What QB trait do you believe Clausen doesn't possess? Decision making? Accuracy? Pocket presence? Arm-strength?

The all important trait of performing at a high level against top tier competition.

[Mahons21]

BS Clausen is not a superman . You claim he can motivate his players to play better and I am sure you have said in the past the QB can make a mediocre line play better then surely you claiming he was essentially playing against 22 players (his own team) then can he be considered a leader ?

-take it easy buddy... geeze

-Trying calming down and thinking before you type. 1 I didn't say Clausen was superman. 2.) He can motivate his players, 3.) He's had 3 different LT's and 3 different C's, but still played very well. 4.) I don't think NOTRE DAME's w/l should indicate how CLAUSEN performed.

More inaccurate facts about Jason Campbell . All the tip top defenders who were drafted includes err Carlos Rogers ... since 2003 14 tigers have been drafted on D . Outside Rogers none were taken in the first round . Most are out of the league and the vast majority were day 2 picks .

-Errr.. Carlos Rogers was a 9th overall pick... Maybe he was actually descent at Auburn?

-Funny how you completely leave out the fact that his two RB's were drafted in the top 5... Do you need a link?

Ask for links when you provide them for your claims . You use this post after post when you cannot be bothered to find a counter claim . Why should other people constantly do your work . I know these twitter feeds were supplied previously, you know they were just lazy ...

-I wasn't rude asking for a link I was just curious. He didn't have it off the top of his head so I went ahead and found it myself. But ya.. I'm asking him to do my work for me..

MATURITY

-Just as I assumed. Another falling back on the maturity issue. You know who else had maturity issues? Sean Taylor, and Steve Smith.

Clausen is a shorter less athletic version of Jason Campbell, without the sucess at the NCAA level .

-How can anyone take you seriously after you just said that? Is that a joke? Campbell came out his senior year, and even with the support of 2 top 5 RB's was widely considered to be a 2nd round pick. Clausen is coming out his jr year (because his coach left and $, with a rookie salary scale more than likely coming into play), and is considered by many to be a top 10 pick, considered by some a 2nd round pick, and considered my some such as Mel Kiper(you know the guy consistently more accurate than McShay who bashes Clausen) as the #1 QB draft prospect. There are no similarities between the two.

People say Clausen is a leader because he is ****y and arrogant but countless people say he is not a Rah Rah go team kind of guy . In the locker room he is a quiet guy and there is a recurrent feeling that he is more a fan of himself than the team ..

-Where has anyone said Clausen is a leader because he is ****y? Everything I have read says he is quiet and earns the respect of his teammates through his performance.

He may not be a naturally vocal leader, but his toughness and willingness to play through injuries will earn him the respect of his teammates.

http://www.newerascouting.com/12/jimmy-clausen-scouting-report/

[Mahons21]

The all important trait of performing at a high level against top tier competition.

Same old song and dance with you. You're a one trick pony.

What Socal is to Jason Campbell you are to Jimmy Clausen.

[Skinsinparadise]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=319768

Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren was asked about Clausen on Sunday and he responded: "I wish I liked him more," according to the Cleveland Plain-Dealer.

Holmgren says the Browns will select a quarterback in next month's draft but probably not in the first couple of rounds. The Browns hold the draft's No. 7 overall pick, and there's no way Oklahoma's Sam Bradford will fall that far. It's possible that Clausen slips to No. 7, but Holmgren apparently doesn't think Clausen is a good value that high in the draft.

"You know how you have a type of player that you like? It's not scientific. People like him a lot. He'll go high," Holmgren said. "But it would be hard for me [to take him]."

[demarc007]

The "taunting" was one game against USC.. BTW Philip Rivers is known for consistently taunting opposing fans. Not comparing the two, but just pointing out you can taunt and still be an extremely good QB

Now this is a bold face lie. If you really did watch every Clausen game how can you say he only taunted one time. In the Hawaii game for instance, he threw up the "Hawaii sign (thumb and pinky extended)" to their sideline after every TD pass (Yes, it's in the youtube montage as well if you want to check). Then his signature move is looking at the opposing sideline after a TD pass and shaking his head from left to right as if to say "You guys can't stop me". At least admit that.

[MiracleManMD]

Clausen like Campbell lack wins and leadership. If a QB can't get it done they can't get it done. No need to keep beating the dead horse, it just won't happen.

We don't need to invest more time, energy and money into another non-winner product.

NO MORE JC's in DC!

[JKonaP]

Who was the last junior QB to enter the draft and turn into a franchise QB in the NFL?

[The Tris]

What necessary QB talent don't you believe he possesses? ie. accuracy, decision making (he's ranked the highest among prospects this year), pocket presence. Don't tell me about his stats or record. From your own personal evaluation what doesn't he possess?

I will tell you about his record. It is a glaring flaw. There has been one, repeat one, successful QB in the past 30 years who had a losing record in college, and he was a transcendent QB talent that was the #1 pick by a country mile.

There is an argument to be made for Clausen's lack of talent on his ND teams, but I refuse to believe that recruiting busts and poor coaching is entirely to blame for a team completely and utterly underwhelming when it is stocked with top 10 recruiting classes. Say what you want about recruiting rankings, but the national champions year in and year out have top 10 classes.

The only thing that doesn't make every excuse for Clausen completely identical to every excuse for Campbell - line play, lack of running game, unskilled skill positions, poor coaching - is that Clausen put up some gaudy stats. But at the end of the day, ND played bad defenses, and Clausen was not able to take his team on his back when the lights were on. I don't care how much blame is heaped on everyone but him, the buck stops with the QB.

Virtually every successful QB from the past decade has come from a non traditional college power, and were not afforded exceptional surrounding talent. But they were able to take their limited teams to the next level, and came out of college winners. For all the positives and the flash, Clausen is lacking in the most basic QB talent of all, the ability to win games. And that scares the hell out of me.

[J-bomb]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=319768

Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren was asked about Clausen on Sunday and he responded: "I wish I liked him more," according to the Cleveland Plain-Dealer.

Holmgren says the Browns will select a quarterback in next month's draft but probably not in the first couple of rounds. The Browns hold the draft's No. 7 overall pick, and there's no way Oklahoma's Sam Bradford will fall that far. It's possible that Clausen slips to No. 7, but Holmgren apparently doesn't think Clausen is a good value that high in the draft.

"You know how you have a type of player that you like? It's not scientific. People like him a lot. He'll go high," Holmgren said. "But it would be hard for me [to take him]."

Is he supposed to say yea we want a QB at 7? He never says Clausen isn't good value the OP speculates that is what holmgren is thinking! NO good GM is going to give away there draft strategy this early, they would be stupid too.

[Skinsinparadise]

Is he supposed to say yea we want a QB at 7? He never says Clausen isn't good value the OP speculates that is what holmgren is thinking! NO good GM is going to give away there draft strategy this early, they would be stupid too.

I didn't add any editorial from myself good or bad -- but if your point is that if you like a player and plan to take them one tactic is to trash them a little publicly, I disagree.

The subterfuge game at least the way I have noticed it is more pretending you like someone else or not showing interest in the player you covet as opposed to trashing them. So i doubt Holmgren secretly likes Clausen and that's why he's taking the shot but having said that what makes Holmgren the definitive opinion? He's just an opinion.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I will tell you about his record. It is a glaring flaw. There has been one, repeat one, successful QB in the past 30 years who had a losing record in college, and he was a transcendent QB talent that was the #1 pick by a country mile.

Eh - Cutler hasn't been successful?

Very few QBs that get to the NFL have losing records - Clausen is a unique circumstance. It is rare that a blue-chip QB is surrounded by such terrible talent, because the blue-chip QBs go to teams that are at least decent.

There is an argument to be made for Clausen's lack of talent on his ND teams, but I refuse to believe that recruiting busts and poor coaching is entirely to blame for a team completely and utterly underwhelming when it is stocked with top 10 recruiting classes.

The latter leads to the former. From I understand, ND has a lot of talent, but it has been badly utilized, and some of their blue chip prospects are rotting on the bench.

But at the end of the day, ND played bad defenses

Better defenses than Bradford, at the very least.

, and Clausen was not able to take his team on his back when the lights were on.

Clausen doesn't play defense. Would anyone bash Jason Campbell if he throw for 5000 yards and went 8-8? Oh wait, wasn't there a QB who did just that? And then he got a somewhat better defense and a much better run game, and now has a Super Bowl? And haven't a few random draft sites compared Clausen to that self-same QB? Fascinating.

But really, I understand the concern, and Clausen did have chances to keep his team alive on some of those games, but while scoring 14 and 17 points like, say, Jason Campbell isn't enough to win a game, scoring 27, 34, and 38 should be.

I don't care how much blame is heaped on everyone but him, the buck stops with the QB.

I agree with this sentiment, but:

But they were able to take their limited teams to the next level, and came out of college winners. For all the positives and the flash, Clausen is lacking in the most basic QB talent of all, the ability to win games. And that scares the hell out of me.

That is a key concern - even throwing out that freshman year, he didn't win a lot. But then, is it "not being a winner" if your team would have potentially gone 0-12 or 1-11 with an average QB under center, and they end up 6-6? Keep in mind that every one of ND's games, except against Nevada, was decided by a TD or less, and 4 of Clausen's wins were decided by late 4th quarter scores. Because really - while those Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers or Matt Ryan teams weren't great and the QBs made them better, if you replaced them with the backup, would they be one of the worst teams in the country? I truly believe that Jimmy Clausen made them at least 4 wins better than they would have been otherwise - that is a winner in my book. To compare with Campbell, whose teams win more when he sits than when he plays, seems to be a major stretch at this point.

Now, it may be possible that Clausen was somehow making his teams worse - but someone would need to prove that, and it doesn't really seem possible given his production.

And hey, Campbell won in college. Didn't help him win in the pros.