Walterfootball.com : Jimmy Clausen is an Alien Wizard

[HawaiianTime]

Eh - Cutler hasn't been successful?

Jay was the 11th pick in 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Cutler_%28American_football%29

So who is Tris talking about?

[dreamboater]

Can someone put up the stats of J Campbell's senior year compared to J. Clausen's junior year?? I may be wrong but I dont think J. Campbell's stats were even close.

[Mahons21]

I will tell you about his record. It is a glaring flaw. There has been one, repeat one, successful QB in the past 30 years who had a losing record in college, and he was a transcendent QB talent that was the #1 pick by a country mile.

who qualifies as transcendent? A better barometer would be top 10 or top 5 QB's

-I also don't imagine there have been many college teams in the past 30 years that average 31 ppg and still have a losing record. (but thats is a guess)

There is an argument to be made for Clausen's lack of talent on his ND teams, but I refuse to believe that recruiting busts and poor coaching is entirely to blame for a team completely and utterly underwhelming when it is stocked with top 10 recruiting classes. Say what you want about recruiting rankings, but the national champions year in and year out have top 10 classes.

A different LT every year, different C every year. No running game present and a defense in shambles. You can refuse to believe it if you want, but that doesn't make it any less true.

The only thing that doesn't make every excuse for Clausen completely identical to every excuse for Campbell - line play, lack of running game, unskilled skill positions, poor coaching - is that Clausen put up some gaudy stats. But at the end of the day, ND played bad defenses, and Clausen was not able to take his team on his back when the lights were on. I don't care how much blame is heaped on everyone but him, the buck stops with the QB.

-Its a pretty big difference. Had Campbell put up top 5 QB statistics this season do you honestly believe people would still be bashing him?

-Campbell played bad defenses this year too. STL, DET, TB, KC. He had 4 touchdowns and 5 INT's in those games combined.

Virtually every successful QB from the past decade has come from a non traditional college power, and were not afforded exceptional surrounding talent. But they were able to take their limited teams to the next level, and came out of college winners. For all the positives and the flash, Clausen is lacking in the most basic QB talent of all, the ability to win games. And that scares the hell out of me.

Winning games is the most basic QB talent? Holy lord. What ever happened to accuracy/decision making/pocket presence, you know things the QB has total control over? Was it Kurt Warner's fault in the Superbowl two years ago that the Cardinals lost? Never mind the fact that he put is team in a position to win, and that his defense gives up the go-ahead score. According to this logic it is Warner's fault. Seems silly to me but to each his own.

I judge QB's on:

Accuracy

Pocket Presence

Release

Decision making

Scrambling/play-making ability outside of the pocket

Arm-Strength

Intangibles (toughness, maturity)

These things don't change no matter who the opponent. If your accurate your accurate. If you can feel the pressure you can feel the pressure. Your release is what it is. If you can read a defense you can read a defense (its not as if Clausen is scrambling out of the pocket consistently and chucking up deep crossing patterns to wide open receivers, he's reading defenses and getting rid of the ball before receivers are out of there break). Your arm-strength is what it is no matter who the opponent.

I respect your opinion, but if winning and maturity were the two biggest factors in indicating whether a college Qb will translate to the NFL, Tim Tebow would be the consensus #1.

[demarc007]

Jay was the 11th pick in 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Cutler_%28American_football%29

So who is Tris talking about?

John Elway

[Mahons21]

Can someone put up the stats of J Campbell's senior year compared to J. Clausen's junior year?? I may be wrong but I dont think J. Campbell's stats were even close.

Clausen:

28 TD's 4 INT's 3,722 yards 68% comp 161.43 rating

Campbell

20 TD's 7 INT's 2,700 yards 69.6% comp 172.89 rating

http://espndb.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=103392

http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=231813

[demarc007]

Can someone put up the stats of J Campbell's senior year compared to J. Clausen's junior year?? I may be wrong but I dont think J. Campbell's stats were even close.

Campbell vs. Clausen or Clausen vs. any QB in the SEC is not even a valid comparison whatsoever. The difference in competition week in week out is a country mile.

[bedlamVR]

-take it easy buddy... geeze

-Trying calming down and thinking before you type. 1 I didn't say Clausen was superman. 2.) He can motivate his players, 3.) He's had 3 different LT's and 3 different C's, but still played very well. 4.) I don't think NOTRE DAME's w/l should indicate how CLAUSEN performed.

What you typed is 1 Vs 22 . There is not an awful lot you can say about that either you are saying the rest of the team were garbage ( which we know in not true) or that he could not raise the play of those around him ...

It is funny that you don't think NDs W/L record should be a discredit against Clausen but it should be the only thing that counts when Campbell is discussed ... Hmm 3 different LT's other inconconsitancies on the OL where I have heard that before ?

-Errr.. Carlos Rogers was a 9th overall pick... Maybe he was actually descent at Auburn?

Rogers is a decent pro . I mentioned him . Outside of Rogers (& Dansby and Thomas went in 2004) of the remaining Tigers on D that have made an impact on the NFL I can think of Jay Ratliff who was selected in the 7th round ... other than that Powers who was not on the Tigers when Campbell was around is the only tiger Defender who has got more than a handful of starts .

-Funny how you completely leave out the fact that his two RB's were drafted in the top 5... Do you need a link?

Nope and they were selected too soon . neither has played up to their billing .. but I am not sure how discussing Campbell or Williams or Benson helps the case for Clausen ...

-I wasn't rude asking for a link I was just curious. He didn't have it off the top of his head so I went ahead and found it myself. But ya.. I'm asking him to do my work for me..

-Just as I assumed. Another falling back on the maturity issue. You know who else had maturity issues? Sean Taylor, and Steve Smith.

Yep ... except you are not going to ask either Sean Taylor or Steve Smith to run your offense for you nor be the centerpeice for the franchise . You take a Steve Smith or a Sean Taylor because you have a locker room that can either burry them or straigten them out ( which worked with Taylor eventually) .

-How can anyone take you seriously after you just said that? Is that a joke? Campbell came out his senior year, and even with the support of 2 top 5 RB's was widely considered to be a 2nd round pick. Clausen is coming out his jr year (because his coach left and $, with a rookie salary scale more than likely coming into play), and is considered by many to be a top 10 pick, considered by some a 2nd round pick, and considered my some such as Mel Kiper(you know the guy consistently more accurate than McShay who bashes Clausen) as the #1 QB draft prospect. There are no similarities between the two.

There are a few similarities in that they both lead by example and both have in 1 season at least shown they can be careful with the football . Outside that Campbell has better athleticism better height a better arm and has been able to transition from one system to another and constantly improve his game .

That said we did over pay for him ( as we did with most of the Gibbs drafted players)and he could have been selected in the 2nd or maybe the third, but does that mean we should over pay for Clausen .

Clausen is coming out in his junior year because he is fearful of regressing under a new coaching staff, is in a WEAK QB class and figures this is the best option for him to cash in .

If I am going to take a QB at no.4 overall pay him $50 million and build my entire franchise around then I want there to be no red flags and with Clausen there are plenty .

[Going Commando]

Who was the last junior QB to enter the draft and turn into a franchise QB in the NFL?

Ben Roethlisberger. But he's pretty much the only one. Drew Bledsoe was decent and had a 3 or 4 year span where he was excellent. All of the rest range from disappointing to awful.

[mnb123]

Ben Roethlisberger. But he's pretty much the only one. Drew Bledsoe was decent and had a 3 or 4 year span where he was excellent. All of the rest range from disappointing to awful.

.....Aaron Rodgers isn't good?

[Mahons21]

What you typed is 1 Vs 22 . There is not an awful lot you can say about that either you are saying the rest of the team were garbage ( which we know in not true) or that he could not raise the play of those around him ...

-The 1 v 22 comment was sarcasm, because people are acting as if its Clausen v the opponent rather than Notre Dame v the opponent.

-You can elevate the performance of the players around you, but to a point.

It is funny that you don't think NDs W/L record should be a discredit against Clausen but it should be the only thing that counts when Campbell is discussed ... Hmm 3 different LT's other inconconsitancies on the OL where I have heard that before ?

-Are you confusing me with another poster? I never said Campbell's W/L record should be the only thing that counts, my name is not Socalskins.

-Ya except Clausen was able to record a 7:1 TD:INT ratio with those inconsistencies, Campbell could hardly throw deep.

Rogers is a decent pro . I mentioned him . Outside of Rogers (& Dansby and Thomas went in 2004) of the remaining Tigers on D that have made an impact on the NFL I can think of Jay Ratliff who was selected in the 7th round ... other than that Powers who was not on the Tigers when Campbell was around is the only tiger Defender who has got more than a handful of starts .

-You said err.. Rogers, I thought you weren't giving his performance at Auburn enough credit. My mistake, I must have misinterpreted the errr

-I thought there was a DE in there too, and despite Ratliffs draft stock he clearly should have been taken higher than the 7th round.

Nope and they were selected too soon . neither has played up to their billing .. but I am not sure how discussing Campbell or Williams or Benson helps the case for Clausen ...

-It was Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown not Benson. Both have been hampered by injuries but outside of that have done quite well. Ronnie Brown especially.

-I didn't bring up Campbell, it was either you or another poster I was responding to. Claiming that Clausen and Campbell were similar, which isn't the case.

Yep ... except you are not going to ask either Sean Taylor or Steve Smith to run your offense for you nor be the centerpeice for the franchise . You take a Steve Smith or a Sean Taylor because you have a locker room that can either burry them or straigten them out ( which worked with Taylor eventually) .

-Sean Taylor was most certainly becoming the face of this franchise, especially in the fans eyes. He was a transcendent talent, that allowed our defense to play an entirely different scheme because of his insane abilities to cover sideline to sideline.

-What does running your offense have to do with maturity? I would say decision making would be a much more accurate indicator, and most experts have Clausen listed as the best decision maker coming out of the draft this year.

-Clausen isn't some loud-mouth, he was quiet in the Notre Dame locker room, he isn't about to come in to the NFL and think he's the top dog. Especially not with the coaching staff and FO we have in place. I have full faith that if they were to draft Clausen, immaturity would never be an issue. If Zorn were still HC, it might be a different story.

There are a few similarities in that they both lead by example and both have in 1 season at least shown they can be careful with the football . Outside that Campbell has better athleticism better height a better arm and has been able to transition from one system to another and constantly improve his game .

-There are also major differences. Clausen has better accuracy, better decision making, better pocket presence, and knows how to put touch on the ball something Campbell sorely lacks.

-Constantly improve his game eh? I wish you had been a parent of mine. That way if I started out with F's and slowly progressed by way all the way to C minus', I would be getting all the credit in the world. My parents expected C (average) as the bare minimum, and as I fan I won't be happy with C graded QB. I don't care if he used to be an F, to me he's just now reaching the bare minimum of what is to be expected from an NFL QB.

That said we did over pay for him ( as we did with most of the Gibbs drafted players)and he could have been selected in the 2nd or maybe the third, but does that mean we should over pay for Clausen .

-Yes we did overpay for him. No, we shouldn't overpay for Clausen you are right. I however don't believe giving up a 4th overall is too much for Clausen

Clausen is coming out in his junior year because he is fearful of regressing under a new coaching staff, is in a WEAK QB class and figures this is the best option for him to cash in .

-Sounds to me like he's making all the right decisions? Whats wrong with that? Bradford probably should have gone out last year, he was the consensus #1. Staying another year did nothing to help him.

If I am going to take a QB at no.4 overall pay him $50 million and build my entire franchise around then I want there to be no red flags and with Clausen there are plenty .

-No there are 2. Maturity, which has been blown out of proportion because of his earlier years at ND. Winning against tough competition, which shouldn't rest solely on Clausen.

[Going Commando]

.....Aaron Rodgers isn't good?

I forgot about him. He'd be the only other one that you can say hasn't been a disappointment. But a big part of his success against the trend might also have been because he got to redshirt for three seasons behind a hall of famer. Vince Young and Michael Vick are the next closest things to successful junior QBs that I can think of, but you'd be hard pressed not to call them a disappointment to Falcons and Titans fans.

[Gregpeck99]

Another Mock just weighed in:

"4. Washington Redskins Take QB Jimmy Clausen —Mike Shanahan will want to make an immediate statement with the offense this year, and Clausen is the guy to do it. Jason Campbell isn’t getting it done, and drafting an offensive lineman won’t change the fact Campbell is going to be a career backup."

[Going Commando]

Winning games is the most basic QB talent? Holy lord. What ever happened to accuracy/decision making/pocket presence, you know things the QB has total control over? Was it Kurt Warner's fault in the Superbowl two years ago that the Cardinals lost? Never mind the fact that he put is team in a position to win, and that his defense gives up the go-ahead score. According to this logic it is Warner's fault. Seems silly to me but to each his own.

Maybe if Kurt Warner hadn't thrown a back breaking pick 6 at the end of the first half, his defense wouldn't have been in position to give up the go ahead score at the end of the game. Just because he scored late doesn't mean he played well enough in total for Arizona to dig themselves out of their hole.

Clausen lost games to bad teams and all of the passes he's getting where people blame his surrounding talent are ridiculous. He went to Notre Dame for God's sake. He had an NFL coach! Say what you want about his offensive line but it has 5 or 6 people who WILL end up playing in the NFL and so will Armando Allen. There are plenty of SEC schools that can't claim the same. Add in the fact that he's a junior QB with serious questions about his maturity, you have the recipe for a bust.

Also for the record, saying something like Clausen is the best QB prospect in the class doesn't mean much to me because I think the class is pretty bad.

[Mahons21]

Maybe if Kurt Warner hadn't thrown a back breaking pick 6 at the end of the first half, his defense wouldn't have been in position to give up the go ahead score at the end of the game. Just because he scored late doesn't mean he played well enough in total for Arizona to dig themselves out of their hole.

31/43, 377 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT isn't good enough? Could it possibly be winning doesn't rest solely on the QB? He may have made a crucial mistake but Warner played one hell of a game, how you can let that single mistake over shadow his defense giving up a game winning DRIVE not a single play but an entire drive is beyond me. But we all have our own opinions, I for one do not blame Kurt Warner.

Clausen lost games to bad teams and all of the passes he's getting where people blame his surrounding talent are ridiculous. He went to Notre Dame for God's sake. He had an NFL coach! Say what you want about his offensive line but it has 5 or 6 people who WILL end up playing in the NFL and so will Armando Allen. There are plenty of SEC schools that can't claim the same. Add in the fact that he's a junior QB with serious questions about his maturity, you have the recipe for a bust.

-He's on his 3rd LT right now,and 3rd C. Even if the caliber of the player is high, which I'm not sure it was, he is constantly with a young and new guy. Think its hard for Campbell when his o-line shuffles around? Imagine if it was a new C exchange every year.

-He didn't have an NFL coach, he had an NFL offensive coordinator who like many of BB's assistants was drastically overrated in the scheme of things and has had little to no success elsewhere. You know your stretching an argument when your claiming he should have been good because of Charlie Weis, come on now.

He's played with one linemen that has made it to the NFL (so far), it was his RT his freshman year.

Also for the record, saying something like Clausen is the best QB prospect in the class doesn't mean much to me because I think the class is pretty bad.

ok.. Then last year's was bad as well, correct?

In addition if winning games is the most basic QB trait, how can you claim Young hasn't been a successful Jr out of College? All he's done is win.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I forgot about him. He'd be the only other one that you can say hasn't been a disappointment. But a big part of his success against the trend might also have been because he got to redshirt for three seasons behind a hall of famer. Vince Young and Michael Vick are the next closest things to successful junior QBs that I can think of, but you'd be hard pressed not to call them a disappointment to Falcons and Titans fans.

Young won a lot with terrible WRs and didn't have much of a run game until this year (his first year with CJ), and he's finally coming along as a passer. Ditto for Vick, though he was NOT coming along as a passer.

Anyway, I posted about the junior QB thing, and I find that most of the junior QB busts failed due to inherent flaws in their game (maturity, work ethic, intelligence, lack of a QB skillset) that another year of college wouldn't have fixed. Imo guys like Shuler and Russell would have failed regardless of them going back to school, because they didn't have it upstairs. Similarly, Klingler and Ware would have failed, or at worst, they needed to go to good teams where they didn't have to do much, because so far, the successful "pure spread" QBs have a 3 year development curve - Brees took 3 years (about 32 starts), Young took 4 starts, or 39 starts, Smith about 47 starts.

Clausen lost games to bad teams

Senior year? Only bad loss was Michigan at the Big House, 3 of his losses were ranked, Navy was good enough to push OSU to the limit, and UConn was solid. But like I said, he doesn't play defense. That "talented Notre Dame team" got torched by 2 freshmen for 300 yards each and gave up 18 points in about 8 minutes against both Michigan and Stanford.

He went to Notre Dame for God's sake. He had an NFL coach! Say what you want about his offensive line but it has 5 or 6 people who WILL end up playing in the NFL and so will Armando Allen. There are plenty of SEC schools that can't claim the same.

It still sucked though. Say what you want about their NFL futures but that line was still atrocious. Maybe it had talent but it didn't mesh well, whatever. The point is that it sucked, and it wasn't like Clausen was holding the ball too long ala Roethlisberger. And Armando Allen did nothing his first two years so "lol".

Even if so, Notre Dame isn't the first bad team to send a bunch of players to the NFL.

And maturity questions? Are you telling me he has more maturity issues than Cutler? Or Rivers? Or Romo sits to pee? These are three of the better QBs in the league - they're also three of the biggest douchebags in the league. The first two had shouting matches on the field.

No really.

Point me to one concrete incident that shows that Clausen is immature.

And REAL incidents, not a guy punching him for shaking his hand after a game, or trying to defend his girlfriend.

Oh yeah, it can't be from HIGH SCHOOL, because nearly every report of his maturity is based on how he acted as an 18 year old.

[Hail Gibbs]

I will tell you about his record. It is a glaring flaw. There has been one, repeat one, successful QB in the past 30 years who had a losing record in college, and he was a transcendent QB talent that was the #1 pick by a country mile.

There is an argument to be made for Clausen's lack of talent on his ND teams, but I refuse to believe that recruiting busts and poor coaching is entirely to blame for a team completely and utterly underwhelming when it is stocked with top 10 recruiting classes. Say what you want about recruiting rankings, but the national champions year in and year out have top 10 classes.

The only thing that doesn't make every excuse for Clausen completely identical to every excuse for Campbell - line play, lack of running game, unskilled skill positions, poor coaching - is that Clausen put up some gaudy stats. But at the end of the day, ND played bad defenses, and Clausen was not able to take his team on his back when the lights were on. I don't care how much blame is heaped on everyone but him, the buck stops with the QB.

Virtually every successful QB from the past decade has come from a non traditional college power, and were not afforded exceptional surrounding talent. But they were able to take their limited teams to the next level, and came out of college winners. For all the positives and the flash, Clausen is lacking in the most basic QB talent of all, the ability to win games. And that scares the hell out of me.

Good post. This is what scares me as well.

The talent surrounding Clausen wasn't nearly as bad as many make it out to be. The talent may have been misused or poorly developed/coached, or maybe there was a team chemistry issue or maybe all of the above, but it isn't like ND had a bunch 1 and 2 star athletes who were all mistakenly given 4 and 5 star ratings coming out of HS. USC is the only team ND has faced in the past 2 years that has clearly had the talent advantage on them so I don't buy the Jimmy was surrounded by inferior talent argument.

-People say he had no rushing attack, but this season Allen averaged 4.9 and Hughes 4.7 ypc. In 2008 Allen averaged 4.4 ypc. So its not like they didn't have the ability to run, Weis just choose not to.

-People also say that D is fully to blame for the poor record over the past 2 seasons. I am not going to argue the ND defense was good this season, but it wasn't one of the worst in college as many make it seem.

ND Defensive Rankings

*2009 64th/120 (25.9 ppg)

*2008 43rd/120 (22.5 ppg)

So they were slightly below average in 2009 in ppg and slightly below the top 1/3rd in ppg in 2009.

I am not arguing Clausen is to blame for NDs poor record, we all know football is a team game, but given that he plays by far the most influential position his college record surely doesn't instill any confidence in me that he will be more successful when things get tougher at the next level. Having watched almost all of NDs games these past 2 seasons Clausen's surroundings were far from insurmountable for a prospect who is being touted by some as an NFL franchise level QB and "NFL ready" to overcome and lead his team to a few more Ws. Maybe Clausen turns out to be great, but based on his resume I think it would be crazy to pick him at 4. If Shanny/Allen believe in his potential that is a different story.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

To be fair, those defensive rankings are a tad skewed because they shut out Nevada (which is really weird, seeing they were a top 10 offense in the country, sure they played the WAC, but still), gave up "only" 14 points to the second worst offense in the country, and gave up 16 points to BC. There were only two games where Clausen could fairly have been said to have not done enough to win the game - Navy and Pitt.

The main sticking point with the defense is WHEN they sucked - gave up 34 to USC (the same team that WASHINGTON held to 13 points) including a late score, and utterly collapsed against Michigan, Stanford and UConn, and giving up 27 to Pitt is nothing to write home about.

Notre Dame as a team was 75th in rushing YPC. They were 101st - a 3.2 YPC average -in 2008.

Hey, even if you take Clausen's sacks into account, how come they couldn't get more yards against these so-called "cupcake defenses" he played, huh?

And whatever the reason, the fact that the "talent" Notre Dame had sucked, period. Who cares what star they have coming in - if they suck on the field, that is completely irrelevant.

[skinsfan190]

This is a great piece. Clausen haters got anything else?

[The Tris]

Senior year? Only bad loss was Michigan at the Big House, 3 of his losses were ranked, Navy was good enough to push OSU to the limit, and UConn was solid. But like I said, he doesn't play defense. That "talented Notre Dame team" got torched by 2 freshmen for 300 yards each and gave up 18 points in about 8 minutes against both Michigan and Stanford.

For how bad his defense was, 3 of his 4 4th Q wins were due to the defense rising to the occasion. The Purdue game was the only "buzzer beater" game he had.

Against MSU, INT with 0:59 on the clock on the 4 yd line, MSU down by 3.

Against Wash, FF at the goal line in OT for what would have been tying score.

Against BC, INT on the 22 inside of 2 mins BC down 4.

For as bad as the defense was, it wasn't like he was winning games in spite of it; Clausen benefited from some very timely defensive plays.

Imperium...I have written a long post in reponse to your response to me in this thread three times at work and it keeps getting erased by user error...frustrating. I'll write it up later tonight though...just know I have not ignored you.

[BurntToast]

He still never beat a ranked team. =\

You'll have to take that one back. In his three years at ND he beat national recruiting powerhouse Navy once.

[darrelgreenie]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=319768

Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren was asked about Clausen on Sunday and he responded: "I wish I liked him more," according to the Cleveland Plain-Dealer.

Holmgren says the Browns will select a quarterback in next month's draft but probably not in the first couple of rounds. The Browns hold the draft's No. 7 overall pick, and there's no way Oklahoma's Sam Bradford will fall that far. It's possible that Clausen slips to No. 7, but Holmgren apparently doesn't think Clausen is a good value that high in the draft.

"You know how you have a type of player that you like? It's not scientific. People like him a lot. He'll go high," Holmgren said. "But it would be hard for me [to take him]."

I don't see how this is a knock against Clausen.

Holmgren has never drafted a QB in the 1st round.

[Chicken Fried]

The amount of gel he uses on his head will always outweigh those positiveness

Yeah, but he has that special swagger about him that I love to see in a QB. If the gel is what does it for him, have at it!

[Newera]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=319768

Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren was asked about Clausen on Sunday and he responded: "I wish I liked him more," according to the Cleveland Plain-Dealer.

Holmgren says the Browns will select a quarterback in next month's draft but probably not in the first couple of rounds. The Browns hold the draft's No. 7 overall pick, and there's no way Oklahoma's Sam Bradford will fall that far. It's possible that Clausen slips to No. 7, but Holmgren apparently doesn't think Clausen is a good value that high in the draft.

"You know how you have a type of player that you like? It's not scientific. People like him a lot. He'll go high," Holmgren said. "But it would be hard for me [to take him]."

That means he likes him. LOL It's all postering. Who knows.

[Newera]

Clausen is clutch. And, everything in sports is about being clutch. Nothing else matters.

[MiracleManMD]

Clausen is a dud. Not a proven winner. Pass.