Walterfootball.com : Jimmy Clausen is an Alien Wizard

[Going Commando]

Eh - Cutler hasn't been successful?

I also wouldn't consider Cutler all that successful at this point. He's got a career losing record and and pretty average career numbers. He's a talented passer but he hasn't really accomplished much so far and the Jeff George whispers are only going to get louder as time goes on.

It certainly doesn't help him that I think the Bears are slowly but surely becoming a train-wreck of a franchise right now and seem a long way off from the Packers and Vikings. Maybe it won't entirely be his fault, but I think it will be a loooong time before he's going to be on some successful teams.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I think they'll be fine offensively, even with Angelo seemingly being possessed by Vinny Ceratto's spirit. Martz will work out Cutler's flaws and get the INTs down imo - he's improved every passer he's ever worked with.

He does have a horrible attitude though, but he can definitely throw TDs.

[demarc007]

You're really selling Cutler short - he put up 27 TDs in an offensive situation that rivals that Campbell had to deal with with one of the few playcallers in the NFL that is worse than Zorn.

Imagine what he'll do with Martz.

Cutler is talented and his arm is tremendous don't get me wrong. However, I don't think he will really turn the corner and start leading his team to the SuperBowl. He is what he is, a gunslinger. He takes alot of chances. As many times he amazes you he tears your heart out just the same. Also, I lived in Chicago during the Schoop years and saw all of those Bear games. Turner's offense is way more vertical than Schoop's ever was.

[demarc007]

Really you think Campbell will have a better NFL career than Cutler?

Didn't say that, however I do think Campbell will surprise under a real NFL coach and a real NFL offense. My disagreement is with the price we have to pay for Clausen. If we knew without a doubt Clausen would be Jay Cutler, I would not spend a #4 on him.

[Going Commando]

There is nothing I hate more than the "well wait til Player-X is a senior" routine. It literally drives me crazy.

The whole thread talking about future prospects is one of the stupidest threads on this board, closely followed by Tebow...Dynasty QB. There is not a single team in the NFL who makes personnel decisions based on future prospects. You do the best with prospects that are available today to create the best long term team. You don't concoct wild scenerios where you are able to snag some future prospect that has had one big season.

I don't think you are seeing where posters like myself are coming from when we try and project development and assess what's on the horizon. Or at least I don't think you are giving enough credit to the validity of the process because its something that scouts themselves do every single year when they quietly scout juniors. Teams ARE aware of what's coming up in the near future because there is no significant down-side to scouting juniors as long as you don't piss off the coaches if they find out you are trying to influence juniors to come out early. You get to watch them when they are seniors, and if they don't match the evaluation you made of them from their junior year, then you figure out why that was the case and move on. You may even have to take them off your board (as probably happened with Jevan Snead), so you just end up doing that and adjust your evaluation according to all of the information you gather. You shouldn't wed yourself to a prospect no matter what--even if he is available this year because you don't know if you'll be in position to draft him. So as long as you are applying that same fundamental principle to juniors when you scout them, you won't run into problems.

But specific to the debate about future QBs: There are prospects that are rising seniors who I (and lots of other draftniks) feel have already shown enough on film for me to confidently say they are better prospects than Jimmy Clausen. That is, if they had come out this year, I would take them ahead of Clausen right now--Mallett and in the case of Locker, I would take him ahead of Bradford as well. I think Ponder was also a dark-horse for the first round this year had he not gotten injured at the end of the season, and that means I would consider him about as good as Clausen. That was the point a lot of draftniks were at with him aanyway.

And then you can confidently say that there are sleeper style prospects with maybe a 2nd or 3rd round projection that will come out of the woodwork next season and catapult themselves into early 1st consideration. We can say this kind of thing because it happens every single year. It happened with Clausen himself this season and both Mark Sanchez and Matt Stafford the year before. We may not be able to identify with utter confidence who these prospects will be. But is that really a reason not to try? Projecting growth is what personnel and scouting departments do for a living.

At the very least, you know there are talented prospects on the horizon that compare favorably to the guys you're looking at--you know this 2010 crop aren't once in a decade talents.

You can't entirely view a prospect's talent and draft status within a vacuum. You have to look at a continuum of prospects to determine trends. Scouts use past prospects and classes as a frame of reference all of the time to compare guys they are evaluating--"Joe Flacco was from a small school and has had lots of NFL success, it's not a reason to discount Pat Devlin" etc.

Also, you have to realize that almost every year, some positions are plentiful or rare in a draft class or else you couldn't be able to determine rules like "LTs, Defensive linemen, and QBs go high / LBs, Safeties, and RBs go low." That kind of determination requires some future projections and the assumption that the future will largely resemble the past as far as the draft is concerned.

Ultimately, it's nice to be able to say, "Well who gives a damn about any other QB prospect, past, present, or future. Ee can win with this guy, let's take him." But I seriously doubt there is ever that level of certainty with any QB prospect, especially when they are college juniors. You don't think that in the back of Pete Carroll's mind, he's thinking "Jake Locker was the best QB I ever played in college and the hometown God of my new team's fanbase." If nothing else, do you really believe an intimate awareness of Locker won't add to the uncertainty of betting his job on a guy like Clausen at 6 for him?

When posters like me look ahead, it's mostly because we've already determined to the best of our ability that this group of QBs is bad, unacceptable, or at least undesirable. What else is there to do but move on?

[The Tris]

When posters like me look ahead, it's mostly because we've already determined to the best of our ability that this group of QBs is bad, unacceptable, or at least undesirable. What else is there to do but move on?

Sure. But when I see people discussing QBs that just finished their FRESHMAN year, I have to shake my head. I don't think you will fall into this category, but I guaran-damn-tee you that come this time next year, the same people who were discussing how amazing this QB class was going to be today, will be back pedaling as fast as humanly possible, worried about their ability to translate to a pro scheme, being a system QB, or concerned about their durability. The same thing happened last year, the same thing has happened this year, and the same thing will happen next year if we don't draft a QB.

When push comes to shove, unless the QB is spotless, people are going to object. And I know I'm not breaking news here, but no QB is spotless. The same people who bag on Clausen for his record are praising Locker, nevermind he has an even worse record, or that Bradford is injury prone even though Ponder had the EXACT same injury (I like Ponder FWIW), or that McCoy and Tebow are products of their system, ignoring the fact that Bobby Petrino's system has produced more Fool's Gold QBs than Mike Leach. Look, I don't think any of those things will be a long term issue for any of those guys, but the double standards are staggering.

But from a FO/Scouting stand point, I totally agree they have guys that scout juniors and sophmores. But they are not sitting in a draft room, planning their strategy around guys that *might* be available in a year or two. The goal is to build the most competitive team possible with the resources available. And I'm terribly sorry, but we are not drafting Jake Locker this year, and I highly doubt we will be in a position to next year. So we need to build the best team we can this year, and that includes upgrading the QB. Doesn't necessarily have to be with the #4 pick, but it has to be done. Period, end of story, stop delaying the inevitable.

I respect your opinion and your standing that this years QB class is complete garbage. Waiting for the next Peyton Manning to fall into our laps is not going to get us anywhere. Now, thankfully, we have a proven coach who with the right talent, can make a great QB talent elite. We don't need Elway 2.0, we need a smart, instinctual and accurate QB. And there are several of those available in this draft. I will be extremely surprised if we don't select one in the first or second round. And I will run naked from Atlanta to DC if Shanahan comes out and says, "Well, we really liked these QBs, but next years class is special, so I'm going to hold off picking my QB of the future until then."

[The Tris]

And no, I don't think Pete Carroll is thinking about Locker. And yes, I absolutely think coaches say, while he might not be John Elway, I'll be damned if I can't win with him. He's got everything I look for in a QB, and he's the best option available to me. It's not like he knows he is going to be any more certain about a guy next year. Or do you believe that Mike Shanahan is so sure about the Class of 2011 that he will bypass this year?

Hey, call me crazy, but I am a bird in the hand guy.

[Hunter_R]

Didn't say that, however I do think Campbell will surprise under a real NFL coach and a real NFL offense.

Yeah. It sucks that he only had scrubs like Zorn, Gibbs, and Saunders calling the plays for him.

[Conn]

Yeah. It sucks that he only had scrubs like Zorn, Gibbs, and Saunders calling the plays for him.

Come on, I want Campbell gone, but you have to admit that Zorn was the definition of a scrub.

[Hunter_R]

Come on, I want Campbell gone, but you have to admit that Zorn was the definition of a scrub.

Zorn is garbage. However, I'd expect most people to realize that Zorn wasn't the point of my post.

[demarc007]

Yeah. It sucks that he only had scrubs like Zorn, Gibbs, and Saunders calling the plays for him.

Campbell had one full season as a starter under Gibbs. I thought that much was obvious which is why I left it out.