ESPN: Clayton: What's next in free agency?

[bulldog]

Claussen is the snake in the grass pick. If the Redskins take him at #4 I think it would be a huge mistake. I have rarely seen more questions and differing opinions on a guy taken this high at qb.

No one had Philip Rivers going at #15-20 in a draft where he was a top 5 pick. Ditto for Eli Manning who was selected in the same draft.

Going back the one recent pick that carried some serious questions was Alex Smith and we see how Smith has done in San Francisco.

To me this is a no-brainer.

When you have a chance to select an OT that can like Samuels be an anchor for your OL for 10-12 years, you take him.

That's what Parcells did in 2008 in Miami with Jake Long and then went QB in Round 2.

LeFevour and Pike will be available later in the draft and I think Washington can still select a future QB.

[RWJ]

Claussen is the snake in the grass pick. If the Redskins take him at #4 I think it would be a huge mistake. I have rarely seen more questions and differing opinions on a guy taken this high at qb.

No one had Philip Rivers going at #15-20 in a draft where he was a top 5 pick. Ditto for Eli Manning who was selected in the same draft.

Going back the one recent pick that carried some serious questions was Alex Smith and we see how Smith has done in San Francisco.

To me this is a no-brainer.

When you have a chance to select an OT that can like Samuels be an anchor for your OL for 10-12 years, you take him.

That's what Parcells did in 2008 in Miami with Jake Long and then went QB in Round 2.

LeFevour and Pike will be available later in the draft and I think Washington can still select a future QB.

Detroit may very well take Okung with #2 overall. That would mean either Suh or McCoy is there when we pick #4. What do you do then? I don't think we will even make a play for Clausen.

After Okung you have Trent Williams and other OT that aren't worthy of a #4 overall. We still need DE in our 3-4 and McCoy would be the perfect fit and that doesn't answer the LT position. It can be addressed in the 2nd round but the talent isn't as good.

We then have to make a decision to either take McCoy or Suh or trade down, I think. Trading down makes more sense as we need additional picks. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Thoughts?

[CBass1724]

I want Okung or trade down, please.

I'm not sold on Sammy and Jimmy being THAT much better than the rest of the qb's in the draft. It's all about mastering a system anyway and Shanny/Brucie know who they need to execute this system.

I trust they know what they are doing and I'm excited to watch the process unfold. I cannot wait to see us in game 1 this fall.

[zCommander]

That's just it, I don't trust Shanny or Allen. Why should I?

What did Shanny do in the 2000 decade? He got one more game closer to the Superbowl then we did all decade and he lost that game. How many division titles did he win in Denver in the 2000's? One more then we did and we didn't win any. How many playoff games did he win in the 2000's? 1, same as us.

What did Allen do in the 2000's? Well he did see Tampa win two division titles and surpass Shanny and the Redskins but didn't win a single playoff game.

So someone please tell me why should I trust either guy? What have they done lately in this league to believe they can withstand the backlash that is sure to come if they don't pick a linemen in the first round?

Look at this way: If two individuals did ok by themselves then wouldn't you think the team just got a kick in the ass with both of them being on the same team? If you hook up two good players togather there is bound to be great success, sorta like, Peyton and Wayne, Culpepper and Moss, Brady and Walker and so on.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

That's what Parcells did in 2008 in Miami with Jake Long and then went QB in Round 2.

LeFevour and Pike will be available later in the draft and I think Washington can still select a future QB.

And the team that went with a QB in the first round in that division (the Jets) was the one who went to the playoffs (and the AFC Championship game.) Who cares what Parcells has done in Miami? They went 7-9 last year and Parcells hasn't done anything in over a decade.

[SonnyJ]

Rabach wasn't the problem at OL, he was one of the few bright spots, and is a much better center than many realize.

For all the "we resigned some backup OL, means the OL wasn't that bad" spinners.... you are completely missing the obvious.

1. you have to have bodies to practice

2. being a viable "backup" hardly equals being a quailty "starter" for several games, but merely a short term fix

3. The huge needs at #1 LT, #2 RT something we haven't addressed yet (most OL problems happened when Samuels went down)

4. Lack of decent available FA

Ah, the practice bodies argument. Yes, you're going to re-sign the garbage from last year just to be practice bodies. Yes, makes all the sense in the world .

There were players available that a desperate team in an uncapped year could have thrown $$$ at and have addressed the positions for the short term, probably better than what would be provided by any rookie. The fact that they didn't tells me that they aren't panicky about the state of the line. Maybe part of the plan all along has been to fill with a bonus baby rookie. That's fine. I just don't see that as being a self-evident truth. More important than reaching for OL is getting elite players, at any position, on the team. This team NEEDS playmakers - guys who tilt the field in your direction. Those have been in short supply. Getting an LT that can wall the QBs blind side off isn't terribly important if the QB can't throw with accuracy downfield.

seriously you don't have to be a "guru" to comprehend basic OL play and the importance of the tackle position.

Excellent condescending tone. :applause:

To flip the question around, why is it an absolute necessity to grab an OL at the #4 spot? How is it not the height of absurdity to go into any draft bound and determined to draft high for a specific position? I've pointed out that 5 of the last 6 teams in the Super Bowl have not invested heavily in OL (or the OL is pedestrian, at best). They all, however, had large investments in the QB position. Why is T more important than QB? Can anyone answer this?

When you have a chance to select an OT that can like Samuels be an anchor for your OL for 10-12 years, you take him.

That's what Parcells did in 2008 in Miami with Jake Long and then went QB in Round 2.

LeFevour and Pike will be available later in the draft and I think Washington can still select a future QB.

This is just the astounding mindset that I'm talking about. So, it's more important to get the mainstay at LT than it is to get the mainstay at QB? That's the way it works? On what planet?????

Parcells also took a QB with the first pick when he was in NE. Furthermore, is the Parcells way the only way? Is there some obscure NFL rule that I don't know about that says that teams must follow the most recent precedent set by Bill Parcells when constructing a team?

As GACOLB pointed out, why the hell are you enamored with a team builder whose team actually regressed last season - partially due to lesser QB play, but certainly not because the OL got worse.

[grego]

What it all adds up to is that maybe last year's OL wasn't the catastrophe that it was made out to be. And, quite possibly, the centerpiece of the OL will be a brand spanking new OT courtesy of the #4 pick of the draft. No issues with that, as long as that player is worthy of the selection.

alot of people think the O line might have been the worst in the NFL last year. you could certainly make a case for it. outside of ranking by sites like profootballfocus, its hard the give concrete evidence. O line is sometimes a tough position to judge.

but if you dont think that, at least, one of the worst lines in football is a catastophe, we would disagree on that definition.

What blows my mind is this notion of QB as afterthought, just a component that you spend little on and stick in to "run the system".

i think its possible to think the O line needs an upgrade, and the QB position needs an upgrage. no need to choose between the 2.

my position is that the line is horrible, the QB is ok (but does need a decent line, given his shortcomings), and i woulndt hate it if bradford were selected, but okung may be the safest pick. clausen may be ryan leaf part 2.

[grego]

Why is T more important than QB? Can anyone answer this?

i dont think its more important, but i do think its 'safer'. IMO, there is only one peyton manning. he's probably the best in the NFL. he's been around awhile, but 'only' won one super bowl. his overall playoff record is forgettable.

i say that because, even the 'best' QB in the NFL isnt a guarantee that you are going to win it all. add to that the fact that a QB like that comes around once every 10 years, if that, and you have to be more lucky than good. if bradford or clausen is that guy- great. take him. but the odds are not in your favor. and, on top of that, he is going to need help.

[MrJL]

To flip the question around, why is it an absolute necessity to grab an OL at the #4 spot? How is it not the height of absurdity to go into any draft bound and determined to draft high for a specific position? I've pointed out that 5 of the last 6 teams in the Super Bowl have not invested heavily in OL (or the OL is pedestrian, at best). They all, however, had large investments in the QB position. Why is T more important than QB? Can anyone answer this?

Cause your number 4 pick in the draft QB isn't worth **** if the first play of his pro career ends with him being carted off the field on a stretcher.

Also a big problem with last years line, and your earlier comments about resigning the players on the line, was thr fact Samuels and Thomas were to old and injury prone. Plus Williams had been out of football for years. So lack of depth causes shuffling and one of our backups wasn't ready to play, . Then we had more injuries. Also Will Montgomery is a C-G. So resigning him could just mean he'll compete with Rabach. But with Samuels gone we have no anchor on our line and the only place to get that this year is the draft.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Claussen is the snake in the grass pick. If the Redskins take him at #4 I think it would be a huge mistake. I have rarely seen more questions and differing opinions on a guy taken this high at qb.

No one had Philip Rivers going at #15-20 in a draft where he was a top 5 pick. Ditto for Eli Manning who was selected in the same draft.

I distinctly remember Rivers being barely a 1st rounder at the beginning of that year. So yeah.

When you have a chance to select an OT that can like Samuels be an anchor for your OL for 10-12 years, you take him.

"how were our offenses with samuels"

That's what Parcells did in 2008 in Miami with Jake Long and then went QB in Round 2.

Those offenses with Long finished 21th and 15th in scoring respectively.

Meanwhile, they were one of the worst passing teams in the NFL.

LeFevour and Pike will be available later in the draft and I think Washington can still select a future QB.

Just like Andre Woodson and Troy Smith were available.

And of course, I love how Clausen is compared to a guy who WAS ON DRUGS and cursed out reporters.

It is clear that nobody has any clue how messed up Ryan Leaf was as a person.

Clausen was immature as a high school senior. Does that make him Ryan Leaf? Ryan Leaf also had a non-existent work ethic and collapsed under pressure like no QB since Marinovich. Clausen has lived with the expectation of being a pro QB since middle school and has produced, and aspires to study film like Peyton Manning.

Oh yeah, his teammates like him, and he was elected captain by said teammates. Something that could not be said of Leaf.

But I guess he's a douche because some guy suckerpunched him on a family dinner.

Ryan Leaf would not have made it past Jimmy Clausen's freshman year.

Now, Clausen did seem to be a bit arrogant as a frosh - he seems to have had that coached/beaten out of him. But because he's the quarterback of Notre Dame, which is like being the starting PG for Duke, people will rip him apart based on hearsay. It doesn't help that Todd (I thought Jamarcus Russell and Andre Woodson were studs and though Mark Sanchez was a 2nd rounder) McShay ripped him because he wasn't 6'5 LASER ROCKET ARM.

Cause your number 4 pick in the draft QB isn't worth **** if the first play of his pro career ends with him being carted off the field on a stretcher.

Nor will your franchise OLT be worth **** if the first play of his pro career ends with him being chopblocked and having his ACL torn. See, I can play this game too.

[grego]

[ It doesn't help that Todd (I thought Jamarcus Russell and Andre Woodson were studs and though Mark Sanchez was a 2nd rounder) McShay ripped him because he wasn't 6'5 LASER ROCKET ARM.

i heard mcshay say on NFL network that he (russell) had the greatest pro day he'd ever seen, but that he wouldnt have taken him in the first round cuz he didnt seem to love football and make it a priority.

does anyone have access to his final rankings from that year? that would be interesting.

btw, i dont think sanchez is anything yet- the jury is still out on him, IMO.

[TheBigGuy24]

Its pretty simple (as of right now)

Draft Bradford if he drops, if not take Okung

[jnhay]

That's just it, I don't trust Shanny or Allen. Why should I?

What did Shanny do in the 2000 decade? He got one more game closer to the Superbowl then we did all decade and he lost that game. How many division titles did he win in Denver in the 2000's? One more then we did and we didn't win any. How many playoff games did he win in the 2000's? 1, same as us.

What did Allen do in the 2000's? Well he did see Tampa win two division titles and surpass Shanny and the Redskins but didn't win a single playoff game.

So someone please tell me why should I trust either guy? What have they done lately in this league to believe they can withstand the backlash that is sure to come if they don't pick a linemen in the first round?

You should trust their judgement more than your own for obvious reasons.

[Skinsinparadise]

We need a linemen at that pick. I don't care who it is as long as he's good. QB with no line can not win. And we've put ourselves into a bad corner with not getting more linemen so far in Free Agency. I think that's the heart of my grief with how this years gone. I would have thought the brain trust would have been smart about this and not let the best availible linemen go to other teams.

We didn't get in a bidding war for a 33 year old decent (but far from great) declining O lineman -- by what he ended up getting we would have likely needed to lock him in at 8 million a year -- and we didn't sign a 30 year old O lineman who has been a journeyman recently including being released not that long ago. I agree with you that we need to do something about the O line but IMO we haven't exactly walked away from a FA goldmine.

[jnhay]

I think people need to accept that we have a very good chance of not getting to the Super Bowl this year. So with that in mind, we shouldn't just be getting any free agent available because he'd be the quick fix. There really aren't many quick fixes for this team.

[MrJL]

Nor will your franchise OLT be worth **** if the first play of his pro career ends with him being chopblocked and having his ACL torn. See, I can play this game too.

Since when are offensive linemen chopblocked? They're the ones who do the chopblocking. And also, they're only going head to head with one guy as opposed to the QB who's trying to be crushed by several men, much larger than him.

[SkinzFan007]

so what FAs are still out there that could garner some Redskins interest? Heres a few names that seem to make some sense:

joey porter, andra davis, jason babin, dwan edwards, dre bly, ken lucas, chester pitts, and ben hamilton.

who am i missing?

[Wild West]

so what FAs are still out there that could garner some Redskins interest? Heres a few names that seem to make some sense:

joey porter, andra davis, jason babin, dwan edwards, dre bly, ken lucas, chester pitts, and ben hamilton.

who am i missing?

Don't want Porter for obvious reasons. I'm really surprised that Pitts and Hamilton haven't already visited/signed. I also think Lucas and Andra Davis would serve as nice depth pickups.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

That's just it, I don't trust Shanny or Allen. Why should I?

What did Shanny do in the 2000 decade? He got one more game closer to the Superbowl then we did all decade and he lost that game. How many division titles did he win in Denver in the 2000's? One more then we did and we didn't win any. How many playoff games did he win in the 2000's? 1, same as us.

What did Allen do in the 2000's? Well he did see Tampa win two division titles and surpass Shanny and the Redskins but didn't win a single playoff game.

So someone please tell me why should I trust either guy? What have they done lately in this league to believe they can withstand the backlash that is sure to come if they don't pick a linemen in the first round?

Here's why these guys didn't win much in the playoffs.

Denver Broncos starting QBs since Elway:

Brian Griese

Jake Plummer

Gus Frerotte

Jay Cutler

Tampa Bay starting QBs in Bruce Allen's tenure

Brad Johnson

Jeff Garcia

Phil Simms

Brian Griese

Never mind that the Broncos had an offensive line that could be reasonably compared to the Hogs and decent defenses until 2007. Never mind that Tampa Bay had a top 5 defense nearly every year until 2008, as well as a solid line and running game.

I'm going to say it in BIG letters so you understand.

WITH RARE EXCEPTIONS, MEDIOCRE QUARTERBACKS DO NOT WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS.

and that is why this whole notion that a franchise QB is a "luxury" that we can't afford with the needs on our line is idiotic. The Broncos and Bucs this decade are the EXACT model of what the "line first" people seem to want - great team, mediocre QB. Yet as you just so conveniently showed, they had limited and inconsistent success this decade.

So you just made my point for me - the "line first, QB afterthought" model does not work. Sure, if you get an amazing defense that can shut down elite QBs on a regular basis, then, yeah sure you can go deep one year. But prepare for a lot of one-and-dones because your QB couldn't make big plays down the stretch.

[Homercles82]

I love how Cleveland landed Joe Thomas and are still a perennial loser. I can't say taking a OL top 5 when you have a mediocre QB is the way to go.

[redskindan07]

Who has a better OLine the Browns or the Skins?

[grego]

Who has a better OLine the Browns or the Skins?

i would say the browns?

[Homercles82]

Who has a better OLine the Browns or the Skins?

They still suck as a team proving that having 1 pro bowl Olineman doesn't help you any.

[pjfootballer]

Well, I'm willing to wait one year before passing judgement on Allen/Shanahan. As long as we show improvement to say 7-9, are able to score more points and play to the level we should, I'll consider this season a good stepping stone.

Who knows, the Rams may decide to take Okung and move the Baylor kid Jason Smith (?) to RT. I think it's all a crapshoot right now until the pro days are done.

I don't mind re-signing some of our backup guys like Montgomery and Williams. Rabach might actually play better in the ZBS then he did in our power running game. And who do we really have that knows the system to play center. The best FA center was 37 until KC picked him up (Weigmann) and the other is 38 (Mawae).