CNN Money: Music's lost decade: Sales cut in half

[Corcaigh]

Quality of product is one issue, but as most music is bought by people in their teens, 20s and 30s, the growth of the video gaming industry into a multi-billion dollar monster over the period where music sales have declined by a similar amount is hardly a coincidence.

[Blackest Eyes]

Source: CNN Money

Full Article Click Here:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news/companies/napster_music_industry/index.htm?hpt=T2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

My :2cents:

If you got 60 million households (the amount of people Napster had during its peak) to pay $20 a month for unlimited downloads/or 1,000 downloads a month, thats 1.2 billion per month. In a whole year thats more than double what they are making now. Too bad the music industry is too focused on suing 12 year old kids, 70 yr old grandparents, and mother's of four. By then the music industry will be bankrupt. Gone are the days of walking into Tower Records and spending $200 on Cd's

Thought's?

I do not necessarily agree with the RIAA suing all of those folks but what should they do? These people broke copyright laws and distributed songs to thousands, if not millions of people. Should they not be punished at all?

I think the OPs 2 cents make sense to me. Turn it into a netflix type of service.

The current music available is mostly crap. It's gimmicky and lacks staying power. Why would I spend 12-20 dollars on a cd with 1 or 2 good songs. Then they limit how many times I can put it on my computer or move it to my iPod.

The music industry didn't accept their changing industry and the sales are proof. Imagine where they would be without iTunes? I know a lot of people don't mind paying a fair price for music but the industry hasn't figured it out yet.

No one is asking you to buy a full album with 1 or two good songs on it. That is the beauty of services like iTunes...buy the good songs off the album. I do not understand why other people do not get this.

And the whole DRM thing...ugh. Many songs on iTunes are now DRM free. And how many devices do you need to have one song on? They give you 5 machines and you can de-authorize any of them whenever you want. I understand that with DRM many people feel that they don't completely own the song but at the same time why would you need to have one song on up to 5 machines?

And you have a problem with this? Personally, I don't think musicians should ever be making the kind of money they used to make.

Musicians should not deserve to make a decent living off their art form? If they put in the work and everyone is getting a fair share, I see no reason why musicians should not make the money they are capable of making.

You say that musician's can't "make it" now. Any musician worth their two cents knows how to use the internet to push their music without the assistance of the conglomerates. And they will still make their money touring. Instead of making 100 times the the national average salary they will make 20 times. Poor musicians.

You are obviously not a musician at all. Not only that, you must not know anyone involved in the music business. Regardless of how well someone can use the internet, so many artists are not making anywhere near the money that they deserve to make or getting the recognition they deserve. As far as touring goes, bands barely ever break even on tours. Maybe the huge pop artists make money on tours, but for the most part bands make jack **** from touring. They have to pay a fee for the venue, have to pay for gas, food, room and board (if they are lucky), crew members, merchandise fees to venues and so much more. Yeah, bands make a ****load of money from touring.

Poor selfless Metallica. BTW they haven't put out a descent album since they were poor, so maybe this well actually help them out :pfft:

You are correct, they haven't really put out a decent album in quite some time.

[Henry]

Technology changes profitability of industries all the time. I'm sure vaudville performers bemoaned the popularity of moving pictures at one time. The TV profoundly changed radio programming. The internet is killing the print industry.

It happens. You can either cry over it or adapt.

I'm certainly harboring no sympathy for those that decide to cry.

[Captain Wiggles]

I was being sarcastic with the musicians don't contribute that much to society. Sorry, hard to portray that over a forum. I agree, the arts are an important part of the human experience.

I am also fine with getting rewarded for your work. No, I do not think it is naive to think that if you are talented (truly talented, like talented enough to make you stand out amongst the 6 billion people on this planet) you will be able to make money off of your music without a record label. People already do it. There are systems in place to spread your music/influence WITHOUT the need of corporate backing. You no longer need to "sell out" to get heard.

Do you think these 90% of musicians who aren't rich now are going to be *hurt* more by the decline of the record industry? If anything I feel it will be easier for these folks...

Yes they'll be hurt because there will be less jobs that need to be filled. It won't just be musicians that suffer. It's writers, producers, engineers, fans, ect. Why do you think it will be easier? The internets/independent labels. Neither one is really a viable source of income.

The younger me would have agreed with you 100%. More independent lables. Music in the hands of artist instead of corporations. Unfortunatley I've realized this leads to an vastly inferior product.

[USS Redskins]

Boo hoo... I work in Print Advertising and we have lost lots of money to online advertising... luckily, we hope to be nearly all electronic within a year (something we have been doing for at least 2 years).... times change and if you cant change with it, you likely will disappear.

[Smoot4Prez]

You are obviously not a musician at all. Not only that, you must not know anyone involved in the music business. Regardless of how well someone can use the internet, so many artists are not making anywhere near the money that they deserve to make or getting the recognition they deserve. As far as touring goes, bands barely ever break even on tours. Maybe the huge pop artists make money on tours, but for the most part bands make jack **** from touring. They have to pay a fee for the venue, have to pay for gas, food, room and board (if they are lucky), crew members, merchandise fees to venues and so much more. Yeah, bands make a ****load of money from touring.

I just don't see this change as having any effect on the average musician. I see it harming the top 4% of musicians, and the corporate entity that comes along with them. People keep making it sound like I don't think musicians deserve to be paid. I think they deserve to be paid what they can earn. Technology has made the old system of becoming a millionaire musician obsolete. Musicians and music existed before mass media existed at all. Something tells me that the decline of the record industry will have very little effect on good music being created.

Hell, we're in the middle of a HUGE decline and I have more good music options to listen to now than I ever did as a child. I listen to bands/groups that I *have never* seen a commercial for, or heard on the radio, or seen in concert. I listed to bands/groups that I *will never* see a commercial for, or hear on the radio, or see in concert.

They still make the music because they love it, regardless of what they're paid.

Yes, maybe that is idealistic. I am *not* a musician. I don't have any real vested interest in what does or doesn't happen to the industry. This is just one music consumer's (uneducated) opinion/experience on the matter.

[FanboyOf91]

Technology changes profitability of industries all the time. I'm sure vaudville performers bemoaned the popularity of moving pictures at one time. The TV profoundly changed radio programming. The internet is killing the print industry.

It happens. You can either cry over it or adapt.

I'm certainly harboring no sympathy for those that decide to cry.

What he said.

Filesharing has made it incredibly cheap and convenient for consumers to find new music and ignore crap. The music industry missed its chance to maintain control of the process when it blew Napster out of the water.

[Captain Wiggles]

Boo hoo... I work in Print Advertising and we have lost lots of money to online advertising... luckily, we hope to be nearly all electronic within a year (something we have been doing for at least 2 years).... times change and if you cant change with it, you likely will disappear.

No offense but nobody is ripping off your hard work. I'm also gonna be a #$%^ here and say that Print Advertising has nowhere near the effect on people that music does. I've never seen 20k-80k people sell out an arena/stadium for a Print Advertising show. :evilg:

[Captain Wiggles]

What he said.

Filesharing has made it free and convenient for consumers to find new music and ignore crap. The music industry missed its chance to maintain control of the process when it blew Napster out of the water.

Had to fix that for you.

[Koolblue13]

It's not just the free music either. My friends band became semi famous when he got out of High School and now, thanks to being able to buy one song at a time, he doesn't make jack off his music anymore, unless he leaves his family and goes on tour. Luckily, his band still sells very well when he does tour.

[TheLongshot]

I do not necessarily agree with the RIAA suing all of those folks but what should they do? These people broke copyright laws and distributed songs to thousands, if not millions of people. Should they not be punished at all?

The problem has been identifying who is breaking the rules, and the RIAA have overextended their reach many times, filing lawsuits against those who are not guilty of the charge.

http://www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-people-years-later

No one is asking you to buy a full album with 1 or two good songs on it. That is the beauty of services like iTunes...buy the good songs off the album. I do not understand why other people do not get this.

Course, the problem is identifying those songs. While the single problem is solved now, the real solution is for musicians to make better albums if they want album sales.

And the whole DRM thing...ugh. Many songs on iTunes are now DRM free. And how many devices do you need to have one song on? They give you 5 machines and you can de-authorize any of them whenever you want. I understand that with DRM many people feel that they don't completely own the song but at the same time why would you need to have one song on up to 5 machines?

What if you want to play your music on a device that doesn't support the brand of DRM your music is under? What if the DRM provider shuts down? (which has happened a couple times. Answer: your music turns into a pile of bits.)

All DRM does is prevent information from persisting. It prevents you from copying it into another form that can be preserved. DRM ultimately kills information, which should be an anathema.

Musicians should not deserve to make a decent living off their art form? If they put in the work and everyone is getting a fair share, I see no reason why musicians should not make the money they are capable of making.

I agree, but the RIAA isn't out there to support musicians, but the large record labels. It isn't called the "RECORDING INDUSTRY association" for nothing.

[#98QBKiller]

It's not just the free music either. My friends band became semi famous when he got out of High School and now, thanks to being able to buy one song at a time, he doesn't make jack off his music anymore, unless he leaves his family and goes on tour. Luckily, his band still sells very well when he does tour.

Being able to buy by the track allows consumers to avoid paying $12-$15 for a CD w/ three good songs and thirteen tracks of filler though.

[Braxford]

I think the OPs 2 cents make sense to me. Turn it into a netflix type of service.

The current music available is mostly crap. It's gimmicky and lacks staying power. Why would I spend 12-20 dollars on a cd with 1 or 2 good songs. Then they limit how many times I can put it on my computer or move it to my iPod.

The music industry didn't accept their changing industry and the sales are proof. Imagine where they would be without iTunes? I know a lot of people don't mind paying a fair price for music but the industry hasn't figured it out yet.

I can't believe they haven't done something like this yet. A service like this would be perfect for the music industry, I rarely listen to CD's anymore its either Pandora or satellite. The music industry has not yet figured out you will make money when you make your industry all about the consumer. Until that happens they will continue to lose money.

[Koolblue13]

Being able to buy by the track allows consumers to avoid paying $12-$15 for a CD w/ three good songs and thirteen tracks of filler though.

On one hand I do agree with you and I enjoy that.

However, have you ever bought an album, because of one or two songs, put the disc in the car and listened to the entire thing and down the road, some random song you didn't know, becomes your favorite?

And I was just pointing out from a musicians financial stand point, not mine. Although, I do miss the old days of music. I remember having to sneak off to the train station, skate through Philly, down to South Street into the tiny record exchanges to find an album or two. When I got home, I'd call all my friends and we'd sit around and listen to it like we had discovered gold. I still have some of my old albums because of that. I think not having that, will hinder us in some way down the road. But this is a different topic.

[greenspandan]

i am not sure that music piracy or iTunes is the primary reason for the general huge decline in the viability of music as a profession.

interestingly, even local underground scenes that were thriving in the 90's are floundering nowadays, and these are scenes that were almost entirely unaffected by Napster or piracy. i'm talking about bands whose catalog never appeared in stores, brick and mortar nor online. even these scenes are dying out.

i believe young people today are using their free time differently than past generations. in the same moments when past generations would be listening to music, trading records or tapes, and generally building up various musicians as gods and mythical figures, today their analogues are playing video games or directly socializing through texting or facebook or whatever. i just don't think music is as big a part of peoples' lives as it used to be. certainly, kids don't seem to be going out to local shows or forming their own bands in anything approaching the same numbers as when i was in high school in the early 90's. (i play in a band and go to a lot of local shows ... 15, 10, and even 5 years ago, there was just so much more going on musically)

[#98QBKiller]

On one hand I do agree with you and I enjoy that.

However, have you ever bought an album, because of one or two songs, put the disc in the car and listened to the entire thing and down the road, some random song you didn't know, becomes your favorite?

And I was just pointing out from a musicians financial stand point, not mine. Although, I do miss the old days of music. I remember having to sneak off to the train station, skate through Philly, down to South Street into the tiny record exchanges to find an album or two. When I got home, I'd call all my friends and we'd sit around and listen to it like we had discovered gold. I still have some of my old albums because of that. I think not having that, will hinder us in some way down the road. But this is a different topic.

I definitely know what you mean. Some of my favorite albums of all-time started out as me being a little so-so on them and they grew on me so much that I couldn't imagine not listening to the whole CD.

But I do like buying by the track when I want to grab an old one-hit wonder or something like that.

And I definitely miss sitting around listening to an album with friends just hanging out, drinking a beer or whatever. It seems like those days are long gone.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Going online and downloading stuff is just not the same. My kids have a completely different relationship with music because of more TV choices, video gaming, social networking and youtube. Music just isn't central to their lives like it was for me.

But is that really THAT much different than it was in 1999, which I believe was a record year for album sales?

I don't argue that music is now part of a larger multi-media fabric. But it was been that way since 1980. It's only in the last ten years that this has monstrous decline has occurred.

[SkinsHokieFan]

But is that really THAT much different than it was in 1999' date=' which I believe was a record year for album sales?

I don't argue that music is now part of a larger multi-media fabric. But it was been that way since 1980. It's only in the last ten years that this has monstrous decline has occurred.[/quote']

The rise of clear channel.

Think about DC music in 1999. You had WHFS, 99.1, you had DC 101, and you had a couple other stations

Events like HFStival never occur now.

Clear Channel ruined music on the radio, music that you would go out and buy or go see their show.

Its really become apparent in the last 5 years

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Music is no longer an art form. Musicians who actually care about their craft will still have more than enough money to provide for themselves and their families. Pop stars will ***** and moan about it. Rather than flow with it, and take lessened revenue (still ridiculous amounts of money) they will try to stop all file sharing by bullying whoever they catch doing it.

And hey, I don't blame them. I would do the same thing if I was P. Diddy or Metallica. But from where I'm sitting, the changes to the music industry are a good thing.

Oh, horse feathers.

"Yummy, Yummy, Yummy I Got Love in My Tummy" was as big a hit as any single ever put out by The Who. "How Much Is That Doggie in the Window?" was popular when Sinatra didn't have a label.

The argument that "Music was better ten years ago" has been made every year since 1956. It's never been true.

[greenspandan]

But is that really THAT much different than it was in 1999' date=' which I believe was a record year for album sales?

I don't argue that music is now part of a larger multi-media fabric. But it was been that way since 1980. It's only in the last ten years that this has monstrous decline has occurred.[/quote']

yes, it is THAT much different than 1999. i think the turning point was the explosion of online gaming, social networking, texting, etc.

i don't want to sound like a curmudgeon or a luddite, because i am neither by a longshot. but in 1999 there were dozens of local shows every weekend in and around DC, put on by kids who had formed their own bands and populated by kids who liked to go out and hear music. that's just not really happening anymore.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The rise of clear channel.

Think about DC music in 1999. You had WHFS, 99.1, you had DC 101, and you had a couple other stations

Events like HFStival never occur now.

Clear Channel ruined music on the radio, music that you would go out and buy or go see their show.

Its really become apparent in the last 5 years

Clear Channel is already in decline. I would argue that there are more sources for new music now than ever before. Fine, you had two modern rock stations once. There are 10 of those on Sirius/XM. There are a million internet radio stations. Bands have Myspace (if that still exists). YouTube. Facebook.

I can find the most obscure song I can think of in twenty seconds online.

The problem is not lack of music or lack of music outlets.

The problem is lack of money. There is no money to be made in selling music right now.

It's possible that the only artists under 35 capable of filling an arena are Taylor Swift and Carrie Underwood. And it's not because they all suck.

If this was 1982, Kings of Leon would have sold 11 million records and be selling out RFK this summer. They are the biggest rock band on the planet right now and deserve it because they are awesome. And it took a year for their album to go platinum in the US.

[Koolblue13]

yes, it is THAT much different than 1999. i think the turning point was the explosion of online gaming, social networking, texting, etc.

i don't want to sound like a curmudgeon or a luddite, because i am neither by a longshot. but in 1999 there were dozens of local shows every weekend in and around DC, put on by kids who had formed their own bands and populated by kids who liked to go out and hear music. that's just not really happening anymore.

It is. It just doesn't get the same enthusiasm. Go support it.

[Captain Wiggles]

i believe young people today are using their free time differently than past generations. in the same moments when past generations would be listening to music, trading records or tapes, and generally building up various musicians as gods and mythical figures, today their analogues are playing video games or directly socializing through texting or facebook or whatever. i just don't think music is as big a part of peoples' lives as it used to be. certainly, kids don't seem to be going out to local shows or forming their own bands in anything approaching the same numbers as when i was in high school in the early 90's. (i play in a band and go to a lot of local shows ... 15, 10, and even 5 years ago, there was just so much more going on musically)

WOW you need to get out more. Good example would be to go see Sound Tribe Sector 9 at the 9:30 club in a month. Young people are just into different genres of music today. Most arn't interested in what us old folks would call a traditional band. They think most bands play grandpa music. They usually just want to:

:dj:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Technology changes profitability of industries all the time. I'm sure vaudville performers bemoaned the popularity of moving pictures at one time. The TV profoundly changed radio programming. The internet is killing the print industry.

It happens. You can either cry over it or adapt.

I'm certainly harboring no sympathy for those that decide to cry.

This probably should end the thread.

I could care less about the labels. Still, I do think that we are missing something with the less of newspapers that actually cover the cities they are located in. And I think we are missing something communal with music splintering the way it has.

The real "problem" is the speed in which these changes have occurred. Nothing really exists to replace what has been lost. So, I don't know what we are transitioning to.

[Captain Wiggles]

Events like HFStival never occur now.

They do, just apparentley not where you live. Four words. Mile High Music Festival. :evilg: