Huddle Report: Drew Boylart's second take on Bradford

[gorebd82]

Russel Okung is better than the best OT prospect in last year's draft. Best since Joe Thomas. I guess that'd be worth the fourth pick?

Wow. Best since Joe Thomas? He's not a better prospect than Jake Long or Ryan Clady. And he's not even a better prospect than Anthony Davis, he just has more film. Okung is probably the most physically limited OT to be considered a 1st rounder this year. His ceiling is much too low to be the #4 pick in arguably the strongest draft ever going in. Taking an OT at #4 is the worst move this franchise can make. If we don't feel there's a franchise QB, then we should trade back and grab a tackle. But as this scouting report says, Bradford is the truth. You never pass on a franchise QB, especially when you need one.

[NewCliche21]

Wow. Best since Joe Thomas? He's not a better prospect than Jake Long or Ryan Clady. And he's not even a better prospect than Anthony Davis, he just has more film. Okung is probably the most physically limited OT to be considered a 1st rounder this year. His ceiling is much too low to be the #4 pick in arguably the strongest draft ever going in. Taking an OT at #4 is the worst move this franchise can make. If we don't feel there's a franchise QB, then we should trade back and grab a tackle. But as this scouting report says, Bradford is the truth. You never pass on a franchise QB, especially when you need one.

This draft class is pretty bad, to be honest. Where are you getting your perspective from?

[heliKCx17]

Wow. Best since Joe Thomas? He's not a better prospect than Jake Long or Ryan Clady. And he's not even a better prospect than Anthony Davis, he just has more film. Okung is probably the most physically limited OT to be considered a 1st rounder this year. His ceiling is much too low to be the #4 pick in arguably the strongest draft ever going in. Taking an OT at #4 is the worst move this franchise can make. If we don't feel there's a franchise QB, then we should trade back and grab a tackle. But as this scouting report says, Bradford is the truth. You never pass on a franchise QB, especially when you need one.

He is better than Ryan Clady, and his ceiling is low because he is already so damn good. The only player that COULD end up being better than him is Campbell because of his length and speed. And many people thought Long was quite overrated when he was drafted #1.

[gorebd82]

I would expect that Shanny would pour over hours of tape, do a ton of interviews, etc -- and dissect Bradford for example from every angle imaginable. Still, of course he can make the wrong call. But his decision will be miles more educated than what any of us will think up here.

He's had a year off. I'm sure he already has. No matter what, I'm pretty confident he'll make the right call. I'd just be very happy and excited if Sam Bradford is that call because that means that he's everything that his supporters have been hoping for and maybe more. If Shannahan takes Bradford or Clausen at #4, then we should all be excited about the potential of a QB handpicked by Mike and Kyle Shannahan.

[Commander Adama]

I don't see how him getting surgery makes him fragile? Can anyone enlighten me?

[Forever21]

well the redskins bust on every QB they take in the 1st round, so they should never take one again.

or WR in the first round for that matter.

hell, the draft is too risky, i say we avoid it all together.

No you're thinking! Trade our picks for cash and use the cash for high priced FA's because there is zero risk in FA!

I get your sense of humor BLC and I nothing short of love it.

[gorebd82]

This draft class is pretty bad, to be honest. Where are you getting your perspective from?

Wow, really? This class is deep at almost every position. Offensive tackle was considered the weakest position, but the juniors coming out has helped. This class has great depth at almost every position and has many elite players at the top. A guy like Greg Hardy doesn't crack the top ten defensive linemen and is probably the 7th or 8th pass rusher. There's an elite WR, MLB, CB. There's two elite safeties and a 3rd that's a physical freak. There's OLBs for the 4-3 and 3-4. There's a couple of 3-4 NTs that might go in the 1st. There's 2 QBs worthy of the top ten. There's an elite speed RB. Jahvid Best, Jonathan Dwyer, and Ryan Matthews are all 1st round talents that might fall to the 2nd. There's at least 2 elite TEs. The biggest stretch is that there's 5 or 6 offensive tackles worthy of going in the 1st.

This year is very, very deep for defense. The top player is considered to be the best DT in the last 30 years. On offense there's an elite player at almost every position. Tackle is the biggest question mark with Anthony Davis being the closest thing to elite, but he has a couple of question marks. There is not a huge fall of from the guys projected to go in the 2nd vs. the guys in the 4th. And that's because the 4th round guys are over-qualified, not because the 2nd round guys are under-qualified.

[wvtbred]

I don't see how him getting surgery makes him fragile? Can anyone enlighten me?

It weakens his ability to play QB just like it did to Brees.

[Commander Adama]

It weakens his ability to play QB just like it did to Brees.

Ahhh gotcha

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I don't see how him getting surgery makes him fragile? Can anyone enlighten me?

It doesn't. Unless Drew Brees is also considered "fragile" because he once got hurt as well.

[zCommander]

Carolina will call Shanny to get our 4th round pick. Why you ask? Because they don't have a 1st round pick this year and they need to replace Jake Delhomme.

Shanny will trade down and get more picks since we don't have a lot of them this year and will we will build the o-line and depth.

Every year a stud franchise QB is on the board.

I don't see how him getting surgery makes him fragile? Can anyone enlighten me?

The same way it has made Colt Brennan fragile.

[Mania]

You're right. There is definitely a correlation between the two :doh:

Even if his arm was amputated hed be better than a QB from FSU

both arms

[Mad Mike]

Every year a stud franchise QB is on the board.

And we are never in a position to get them. THIS YEAR we are. :evilg:

[NewCliche21]

And we are never in a position to get them. THIS YEAR we are. :evilg:

I think that that was sarcasm?

[instinct21]

Hmmm, interesting that Bradford makes his OL look better.

[BlackBush]

He is better than Ryan Clady, and his ceiling is low because he is already so damn good. The only player that COULD end up being better than him is Campbell because of his length and speed. And many people thought Long was quite overrated when he was drafted #1.

I haven't got an eye for Oline talent but I tend to listen to those that do and I'm continually hearing that Okung is overrated, especially from his performance in his last game.

http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/okung-osu-ugly-in-cotton-bowl.html

At times he's very good in pass protection, when he engages one-on-one and sets himself, he generally does a good job. However, he just isn't 'dominant'. There were two huge plays in the fourth quarter where I just thought, "wow - that's not good."

The first instance came with 14:09 remaining and OSU with 2nd and 5. The quarterback Zach Robinson is under center and drops back to pass. Okung confronts the right defensive end off the snap, but the rusher simply moves inside, brushing past Okung as if he wasn't there. Even after the guy makes his way to the QB, it takes Okung 2-3 second to react to what's happened and by this point, he's stood in the open field looking at his QB being slammed into the ground. Robinson got up clutching his ribs and back. It was a general lack of effort to not even get his hands on the DE (who must be giving up around 30-40lbs on Okung) and the play in general looked very sloppy.

Okung should still be able to deliver some kind of a punch. He'll be facing bigger, faster guys in the NFL. I didn't see Anthony Davis get beat like Okung did today when I scouted Rutgers. When scouting last year's prospects, I didn't see Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe or Michael Oher get beat like Okung did today. Andre Smith I did - but his value was always as a run blocking right tackle.

[Mad Mike]

OK, we are on the same page then. If you noticed how I worded it I shifted to making a global point when I talked about how people would feel if Shanny ended up drafting an O lineman.

There I wasn't talking about your post, but other posts I have read on the topic -- where certain people seem absolutely convinced that Bradford is a franchise QB, and the Redskins MUST draft a QB. I just personally find it hard to understand how people from watching some you tube clips can figure out what some say is one of the more complex positions to decipher in the NFL draft.

I would expect that Shanny would pour over hours of tape, do a ton of interviews, etc -- and dissect Bradford for example from every angle imaginable. Still, of course he can make the wrong call. But his decision will be miles more educated than what any of us will think up here.

Not saying, we shouldn't offer our opinions. But some opinions seem so absolute and definitive on this decision that I wonder where all the confidence is coming from?

One of the most intelligent posts I've seen in a while.

It always cracks me up when fans act like they know for sure weather this guy is going to be a bust or that guy is a future all pro. As fans, we don't have 1/10th of the information scouts and coaches have on players. If they can't always get it right, what makes a fan think they can do so much better?

Same goes for drafting one position over another, or even play calling.

We all may have our opinions and we can come here to discuss and argue them. That's great. Some of us may even be pretty smart or well informed.

But when you get so arrogant as to act like you are an expert and telling other people how little they know at every available opportunity....

(________, yeah I'm talking to you. :evilg: ) You are just making a fool of yourself.

[Mad Mike]

Shanahan seems to prefer mobile QB's. Something tells me he might pass on the QB's in this class, pick up some extra picks in the 2011 draft by trading back, and make a hard push for Locker next year. He seems to be the prototypical Shanahan QB.

As a Locker fan, I've thought of this scenario but I just don't see it making any sense. You just cant do it unless you can be SURE you can pull it off. The problem is that you cant. This isn't Madden where the computer will happily trade you if you have the value for it. If another team picks ahead of us and wants him, he's gone. Then what? And what if Bradford ends up being the next Payton Manning? What if you can some how maneuver to trade a bunch of picks to get him and Locker is a bust?

No. If you really feel like you need a QB, you take the best one you can find when you get the opportunity and hope he produces at the next level. That's all anyone can do.

[gorebd82]

As a Locker fan, I've thought of this scenario but I just don't see it making any sense. You just cant do it unless you can be SURE you can pull it off. The problem is that you cant. This isn't Madden where the computer will happily trade you if you have the value for it. If another team picks ahead of us and wants him, he's gone. Then what? And what if Bradford ends up being the next Payton Manning? What if you can some how maneuver to trade a bunch of picks to get him and Locker is a bust?

No. If you really feel like you need a QB, you take the best one you can find when you get the opportunity and hope he produces at the next level. That's all anyone can do.

Exactly. What if Shannahan gets our running game together and Haslett gets the defense to play to its potential? That might be enough to sneak us in the playoffs. Jason staying around could still lead us to a 7-9 record and we not be in a position to grab Locker. Locker might go #1.

Or as you pointed out, we might sell the farm to get Locker and he busts. While we could be sick because Bradford is a perrenial All-Pro. You can't pass on your player thinking about next year.

If Shanny thinks he's a stud, then go get him.

[Sandman69]

Draft LT, QB, or trade back. I am just glad we have Shanahallen to make the decision this year. I will place my trust on what they think will help get us to winning again.

If they think Bradford is their guy, they should draft him.

If they think Bradford or the others are too risky at #4 and they take Okung, cool by me.

If they take Berry... I may question it, but I will support it.

If they trade back to get some extra picks. Fine Fine...

I would like to comment on that whole Build a Castle first to put your King in argument.

How many first generation Kings had a Castle built before they were king? In reality, the King became king by his actions. Then he had the Castle built.

Will Bradford be our King? Who knows... I am just glad the weasel won't be making that decision this year.

[ouvan59]

So where do these bloggers get "film" on these players? I just read a column by this guy on a site with the following description "Buffalo Bills fan site for Bills fans in Washington area.Dedicated to all Bills fan having to deal with all of the obnoxious Redskin fans." I'm guessing he TIVO'd a bunch of games unless there is a place where random Joes can get "film" that I'm not aware of. And even if he could to get a true read on these players you'd have to watch film non-stop to get a good sample on all these draft eligible players that these guys claim to know anything about.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

This guy changed his opinion because he rewatched one game against BYU?

:S

Not that I think Bradford is a bad prospect. I think it's impossible to tell either way.

[BruinSkin]

He cites one game. I've seen multiple games where he never was under center once.

Oldskool, I respect you as a poster but the above statement is disingenuous at best and a massive exaggeration to make your point at worst. I don't even think you said it in bad faith but maybe you haven't seen as much of Bradford and OU as I have. That being said, every single game Bradford played at OU is up on Youtube in highlight reel form. I was luckily able to pull clips (posted below) to check whether or not he actually lined up under center.

As I suspected, he lined up under center in each and every game he started and looked good on rollouts, play action passes, straight drop backs, and even bubble screens. I wish I could give an exact split of under center/shotgun snaps, but I don't have game film of every throw as I'm at the mercy of whatever is included in the Youtube highlights. Many of these were found relatively easily (within the first minute of the highlight) and took me about 20 minutes to compile. If you get a chance to watch all of these in full, you'll notice that Oklahoma's offense is a hybrid of pro-style (single back, I-form) and spread (four and five wide). The closest I can compare it to in the NFL is the Patriots/Colts.

Just to be clear, this is not a "QB v. O-line" debate, those have been argued ad nauseum. I'm only concerned with the truth as it pertains to prospects and not biases one may have towards one player or another. I wouldn't mind drafting an O-linemen with the first pick if Shannahan deems one worthy. I truly trust his judgment, and Oldskool has made some great posts on which options we could choose if they're still on the board.

2007 Season

Texas

WVU Fiesta Bowl

2008 Season

Florida BCS National Championship game

2009 Season

BYU - Mentioned by Boylart.

Texas - Injured second drive of the game (no footage of his first drive)

[pjfootballer]

Carolina will call Shanny to get our 4th round pick. Why you ask? Because they don't have a 1st round pick this year and they need to replace Jake Delhomme.

Shanny will trade down and get more picks since we don't have a lot of them this year and will we will build the o-line and depth.

Every year a stud franchise QB is on the board.

The same way it has made Colt Brennan fragile.

Carolina has no first round pick so why would we trade the #4 pick to a team without a first rounder? With the chart values, Carolina would probably have to give us their whole draft. And I live near Charlotte, the masses here think Matt Moore is the 2nd coming so they are covered. I still beleive Jake will be their starter after preseason, he beat out Moore, suck the first few weeks and then Moore will replace him about week 5.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Carolina has no first round pick so why would we trade the #4 pick to a team without a first rounder? With the chart values, Carolina would probably have to give us their whole draft. And I live near Charlotte, the masses here think Matt Moore is the 2nd coming so they are covered. I still beleive Jake will be their starter after preseason, he beat out Moore, suck the first few weeks and then Moore will replace him about week 5.

By the value chart, even the rest of Carolina's draft doesn't come anywhere close to the value of our first. And that is even assuming they had all their other picks, they actually don't have a 5 or 6 either. So, the rest of their picks and next year's #1 and I still wouldn't consider it.