CNN: Passions over 'prosperity gospel': Was Jesus wealthy?

[polywog999]

I do not believe everyone goes to heaven some will get to live on the Earth finishing the job Adam never did.

I am speaking of this life. I am talking about the "now."

[DRSmith]

I am speaking of this life. I am talking about the "now."

So was I but that blessing will be more of a in God's time.

[polywog999]

So was I but that blessing will be more of a in God's time.

I'm not christian, so I can't go too far into how the Bible should be taken. As a former christian though, I truly enjoy theological debate.

[brandymac27]

That's funny because History Channel had a Documentary some months ago that proposed the idea that all of the ten plagues and red sea crossing could have been the result of a Super Volcano eruption , I can't recall the island off hand but it was near greece.

I saw that too. I think it was more of an issue of trying to prove "scientifically" how all the plagues could have happened (for all those that don't believe in miracles/God, etc.). Either way, it was still really interesting.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So was I but that blessing will be more of a in God's time.

This is the whole problem with the Prosperity Gospel, it totally misunderstands the timing of God's blessings, and turns those blessings into a materialistic reward for believing God will make you prosper. As Christians we prosper because of our faith in Christ regardless of how much $$$ is found in our checking accounts.

[Veretax]

This is the whole problem with the Prosperity Gospel, it totally misunderstands the timing of God's blessings, and turns those blessings into a materialistic reward for believing God will make you prosper. As Christians we prosper because of our faith in Christ regardless of how much $$$ is found in our checking accounts.

This is my understanding as well, but a lot of people forget that while God does promise certain things, he certainly did not promise us lives of ease, as there are diverse trials that each of us go through.

[AsburySkinsFan]

According to scripture, the sea parted from the wind. If people believed that the Israelites escaped from bondage in Egypt, why would they not believe the sea parting?

I don't think I said they didn't believe in the sea parting. What I was responding to was the idea that their faith in the sea parting was necessary for the parting of the sea.

This below is what I was responding to:

There was enough people who believed in GOD and had Faith to create a walkway for all the people to cross. Of course, the Egyptians didn't have Faith and fell into the Sea.

This makes the miracle contingent upon the faith of the people, the same people who upon entering the wilderness cried to go back to their slavery in Egypt and when Moses went up the mountain immediately built for themselves a golden calf. They do not seem like well matured disciples to me, even Aaron lied to Moses about the calf when questioned.

Exodus 32:3-4 So all the people took off the gold rings from their ears, and brought them to Aaron. 4 He took the gold from them, formed it in a mold, and cast an image of a calf; and they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!"

Exodus 32:22-24 And Aaron said, "Do not let the anger of my lord burn hot; you know the people, that they are bent on evil. 23 They said to me, 'Make us gods, who shall go before us; as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.' 24 So I said to them, 'Whoever has gold, take it off'; so they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!"

[polywog999]

I don't think I said they didn't believe in the sea parting. What I was responding to was the idea that their faith in the sea parting was necessary for the parting of the sea.

This below is what I was responding to:

This makes the miracle contingent upon the faith of the people, the same people who upon entering the wilderness cried to go back to their slavery in Egypt and when Moses went up the mountain immediately built for themselves a golden calf. They do not seem like well matured disciples to me, even Aaron lied to Moses about the calf when questioned.

Oh, I was agreeing with ya!

[polywog999]

This is my understanding as well, but a lot of people forget that while God does promise certain things, he certainly did not promise us lives of ease, as there are diverse trials that each of us go through.

Yes, Jobe is a good example.

[DRSmith]

This is the whole problem with the Prosperity Gospel, it totally misunderstands the timing of God's blessings, and turns those blessings into a materialistic reward for believing God will make you prosper. As Christians we prosper because of our faith in Christ regardless of how much $$$ is found in our checking accounts.

I try to live by Paul's words, having sustenance and covering be content with these things.

And the odd Skins ticket

I find more joy in the experiences life brings and the things learned.

[Fred Jones]

That's funny because History Channel had a Documentary some months ago that proposed the idea that all of the ten plagues and red sea crossing could have been the result of a Super Volcano eruption , I can't recall the island off hand but it was near greece.

I find your argument to be a bit specious to be honest, and I think that perhaps if you want to discuss the validity of the bible, you do so in another thread. That's just my suggestion, and I'll leave it at that.

Discussing the validity of the Bible is too big a topic for me.

To add to your comment, most of the stuff Moses did can be explained. The first born was not true, and the Jewish people were quartered away from the Egyptians and thus did not have contact with them and thus didn't get the plague like they did. I don't remember the explanations for the rest, but the volcano explains the red water I believe.

That said, Moses was the man and brought the commandments down from the Mountain. God wanted to get the word out what he expected.

To add to my previous conversations, if it is not your time, the angels will bring you back.

Here is an example if you can open your mind:

http://www.aolhealth.com/health/back-from-dead?icid=main|main|dl3|link2|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolhealth.com%2Fhealth%2Fback-from-dead

[Vicious]

[Fred Jones]

And to really shake things up. To call white black and up down.

Hell, as described in the Bible, movies and the church, does not exist.

Hell is created in the mind of man. Why would GOD, the Creator of all, and unconditional love, allow Hell. That said, as I understand it, there is an angel that has forgotten what it is like to sit by GOD and he does walk the Earth. But, he does not do the terrible things described by many. I am still learning exactly what that means.

The things that you don't know would simply amaze you. When you return to the soul plane or Heaven as many describe it, you get refreshed and "remember". A very basic description, but I don't have time for further detail.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Hell, as described in the Bible, movies and the church, does not exist.

LOL, I'm still trying to figure out what to make of this, I mean in a thread about Christian theology you basically reject one key tenets of Christian theology, and your logic in doing so is to reject the teachings of the Bible itself. That's like saying, "let's have a discussion about Islam, but keep in mind I don't believe in half of what Muhammad said."

Hell is created in the mind of man. Why would GOD, the Creator of all, and unconditional love, allow Hell.

Because Yahweh is a God of justice, and with God's unconditional love God has provided a way for us who are each sinful to be reconciled back to Himself through His Son.

[DRSmith]

LOL, I'm still trying to figure out what to make of this, I mean in a thread about Christian theology you basically reject one key tenets of Christian theology, and your logic in doing so is to reject the teachings of the Bible itself. That's like saying, "let's have a discussion about Islam, but keep in mind I don't believe in half of what Muhammad said."

Because Yahweh is a God of justice, and with God's unconditional love God has provided a way for us who are each sinful to be reconciled back to Himself through His Son.

I never saw the sadistic torture of a person for eternity for 70 or 80 years of being sinful as being a basic tenant of Chritistianity.

I have always found the idea of eternal suffering by burning alive ironic considering the exactly what Gehenna was and why it had become what it was and what God said in Jeremiah concerning their actions that led to the valley of Himnom being turned into a burning garbage dump.

[techboy]

LOL, I'm still trying to figure out what to make of this, I mean in a thread about Christian theology you basically reject one key tenets of Christian theology, and your logic in doing so is to reject the teachings of the Bible itself.

This thread isn't actually about Christian theology. It's about 1st century history. There is a new theology thread, though.

[DRSmith]

We also don't talk about Asherah.

Intrigued...

Here is an example

5. For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."

Also if one looks at Rashi's writings pre and post crusade many OT passage that were considered messianic prophecies were then said to be about the Jews and not the messiah.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I never saw the sadistic torture of a person for eternity for 70 or 80 years of being sinful as being a basic tenant of Chritistianity.

I have always found the idea of eternal suffering by burning alive ironic considering the exactly what Gehenna was and why it had become what it was and what God said in Jeremiah concerning their actions that led to the valley of Himnom being turned into a burning garbage dump.

I don't believe in the "torturing" aspect of what passes for theology regarding Hell, instead Hell is separation from God's grace through judgment. Let me ask this, do you believe in the judgment of God upon humanity?

This thread isn't actually about Christian theology. It's about 1st century history. There is a new theology thread, though.

Check again, the title is very much about theology, i.e. the Prosperity Gospel.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Here is an example

5. For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."

Also if one looks at Rashi's writings pre and post crusade many OT passage that were considered messianic prophecies were then said to be about the Jews and not the messiah.

Sure they didn't read them that way, but that doesn't mean that they didn't read them wrong or that they failed to completely understand the full realization or dual meanings.

[techboy]

Check again, the title is very much about theology, i.e. the Prosperity Gospel.

The Prosperity Gospel is the driving force behind the bad history, but the question posed is "Was Jesus wealthy?". That's not theology, that's history.

There will, of course, be some side discussion of the theology as it relates to said bad history, but even then, that's a far cry from the discussion of Calvinism that's developed.

This is not to say that I have not participated in the hijack, of course, but it seems odd to me that you would tell somebody else that his hijack is somehow out of bounds.

"No! This bus is going to Cuba!"

[AsburySkinsFan]

This is not to say that I have not participated in the hijack, of course, but it seems odd to me that you would tell somebody else that his hijack is somehow out of bounds.

'twasn't my hijack, it was Fred's.

[Fred Jones]

LOL, I'm still trying to figure out what to make of this, I mean in a thread about Christian theology you basically reject one key tenets of Christian theology, and your logic in doing so is to reject the teachings of the Bible itself. That's like saying, "let's have a discussion about Islam, but keep in mind I don't believe in half of what Muhammad said."

Because Yahweh is a God of justice, and with God's unconditional love God has provided a way for us who are each sinful to be reconciled back to Himself through His Son.

The Bible was written by man and interpreted by man. It is simply a history book. Basically, I didn't want to discuss the Bible and thought I pointed that out. I was not saying many portions of the Bible are not accurate or correct. In fact it is.

You are answering as academic. You are answering with logic and what you have read or been taught in class. I am saying that is incorrect to a degree. I am saying you simply must believe and have faith. Have Faith that everyone has two angels assigned to them. Have Faith that you can pray to the angels and they can help you.

Just understand the one BIG RULE, that GOD and the angels don't interfere in the free will of man. GOD set it up that way. And, your soul has lessons to learn. GOD and the angels will not go against the soul in the lessons that need to be learned. So, if you pray for something, it might not be granted because you lesson has not been learned. And, if it is your time to die, then you will die. Remember, set off a nuclear bomb next to your human body and your human body will die, your soul lives on.

And, like I said, Jesus didn't die for our sins. Everyone is accountable for their own sins. Now, not everyone goes to "Heaven" because some choose to walk the earth as what people call "ghosts", but that is a another topic not discussed today. And no, they don't scare people like in the movies.

But, everyone else goes to "Heaven" regardless of their actions on Earth. However, those souls that have committed bad things get separated and what I will call re-educated, however, I am still learning exactly what that means.

To finish, all prayers are answered regardless of what you pray for. When I say that I mean a real prayer not some joking around prayer. Now, that prayer might be answered immediately or in a day or month or 10 years. It also might take much longer. For all prayers are answered in divine time according to GOD's plan. What that is I have no idea.

Meaning, for the universal question of world peace, the answer is yes it will happen just not any time soon and yes our great grandchildren ect. will be long dead when it happens.

[DRSmith]

Sure they didn't read them that way, but that doesn't mean that they didn't read them wrong or that they failed to completely understand the full realization or dual meanings.

This change is newer

[DRSmith]

I don't believe in the "torturing" aspect of what passes for theology regarding Hell, instead Hell is separation from God's grace through judgment. Let me ask this, do you believe in the judgment of God upon humanity?

Hell to me is just where everyone goes when they die, they go into the grave those worthy or never had a chance are given their reward or another chance the others are just dead to never live again.

[techboy]

Hell to me is just where everyone goes when they die, they go into the grave those worthy or never had a chance are given their reward or another chance the others are just dead to never live again.

I have to wonder at your comment that you "used" to be a Jehovah's Witness. From your defense of the word Jehovah itself, to your denial of the Trinity, to this which is basically annihilationism, it sure sounds like you're still a member, or at least hold to their views.