A great quarterback makes a bad O-line look good

[wdcredskins]

Check out the sacks given up by NE in '07 and '08. It sure wasn't Tom Brady's mobility that caused him to be sacked about 20 times less.

bingo and for those who cant decipher what he means, brady aint mobile. hence his quick release, able to read defense prior to snap, pocket presence and awareness, ability to step up and side step.... oh and having a great accuracy that enables him to throw intight coverages which basically helps him to release quicker as well......

[#98QBKiller]

well, i guess thats the debate. there are people that say he is 'horrible', 'horrendous', 'worse than shuler or quinn'. this, despite the fact that his #'s indicate he is middle of the pack.

so, i'm not sure how do describe effective, but i would say a solid 2 TD's and 1 INT 250 yard a week QB is what he's shown he is capable of. maybe better, but i would certainly say not worse.

and i would say thats not bad in a sytem where his slow feet and slow release are not good things to possess.

I tend to agree with this. And IMO, 2 TDs 1 INT and 250 yds, is pretty average. The problem for me is, Campbell needs everything around him to be perfect to achieve every week. And I don't mean just the OL. He needs the WRs to be perfect, the running game to be going and the defense playing great to get anything going. I don't see him putting the team on his shoulders and winning very many games for us himself and if you want to be a regular contender in today's NFL, you need to build your team around a QB that can do that.

Wasnt that his first 8 games in '06 and his 1st season in '07?? Even though I hardly call that a "good o-line".

I suppose the last few games were just flukes, silly me I thought we saw a qb in the Saints game operate pretty damn well if given any sort of time. I thought even though he was getting hit a lot the Raiders, Denver, even Dallas game he did very good.

So you're using the multi-year rookie excuse again? And cherry picking two good games and one bad one (Cowboys game)? You're not helping your case very much.

[seriously]

So you're using the multi-year rookie excuse again? And cherry picking two good games and one bad one (Cowboys game)? You're not helping your case very much.

I'm doing the same you could say as most of you. Are we debating on him being the best? Or a "good" QB we need to build a better cast for?

IMO there is no qb that would have done consistently better given the circumstances. It just angers me to think we're going to dumb JC, get a rookie or some FA in the offseason and he does well with a BETTER LINE/BETTER RB and people like most of this site will act like it was JC.

There are simply TOO MANY VARIABLES of SUCK surrounding JC to get rid of him. If we do, there is just ANOTHER position we have to add that may or may not pan out.

[seriously]

bingo and for those who cant decipher what he means, brady aint mobile. hence his quick release, able to read defense prior to snap, pocket presence and awareness, ability to step up and side step.... oh and having a great accuracy that enables him to throw intight coverages which basically helps him to release quicker as well......

That shows nothing but more "variables". Did anyone get PROVEN ELITE players to assist Campbell? What dominating 6'5 Pro Bowler did we get him? Who is the BEST slot WR in the game we brought in for him? How many years has JC had under the same system with the same coach to only have better targets thrown into the same routes being ran??

The MARGIN of error for JC in throwing the ball is a window 10% of that window Brady has in Moss. JC overthrows a lot of passes? Hmmm, at 5'10" is it really overthrown if his target is 6'5" and a high jumping Wideout?

What are the legitmate comparisons again?

[Drastik]

IMO, 2 TDs 1 INT and 250 yds, is pretty average.

That's not average... that's GOOD.... This is the problem with most Redskins fans, they expect our QB to all-world. It's not gonna happen..

If you guys think those numbers for a game are average... then you think a 4,000 yard, 32 TD, 16 INT season is average???

[Mahons21]

Yep, Todd Collins lit up KC in the 2nd half...

-Maybe Collins' didn't "light it up," but he played as good if not slightly better than Jason. It doesn't worry you at all that a career journeymen can run our offense as well as and sometimes better than our starting QB. It doesn't worry you that the offense seems to open up with this noodle-armed journeymen? (most teams scale back the playbook when a backup comes in, when our backup comes in we start throwing bombs, [even with our o-line, which many have claimed isn't possible])

[Drastik]

-Maybe Collins' didn't "light it up," but he played as good if not slightly better than Jason. It doesn't worry you at all that a career journeymen can run our offense as well as and sometimes better than our starting QB. It doesn't worry you that the offense seems to open up with this noodle-armed journeymen? (most teams scale back the playbook when a backup comes in, when our backup comes in we start throwing bombs, [even with our o-line, which many have claimed isn't possible])

Statistically speaking, Todd Collins played worse than Jason Campbell against K.C.

[Skin'Em84]

How about we consider the fact that neither are the answer, and that is largely to blame on the O-Line. I'm sorry, the JC detractors lose their argument when they use this last game as an example.

There are many times in the past where JC has failed because JC has failed, but if you have a LB or lineman in your face when you plant your foot on a 3 step drop, its your line's fault. That's not acceptable, Peyton Manning would have a horrible game in this case. That may be some of the playcalling, but your line should be able to block people to give your QB 1 second to read the field, to assume a QB can do that task in less than a second is to hope for the near impossible.

It's ridiculous to think that our O-Line has gone this long without being addressed. There needs to be at least a solid attempt to fix it before the we attend to the QB position. How can we honestly look at that last game and say "the O-Line is fine at the moment". It's had a few good games recently, 1 against Dallas who was struggling, 1 against Philly which was a good game, and 1 against Oakland who sucks.

[Mahons21]

Statistically speaking, Todd Collins played worse than Jason Campbell against K.C.

-Statistically speaking Big Ben was a bad Qb last year.

-Statistically speaking, GB's o-line is worse than ours.

-Statistics don't tell the full story plain and simple. I watched the KC game, and I saw an offense start opening up with a backup QB, one of the first few plays was a bomb to Moss, which was one of our biggest plays of the season up until that point. If you watched the game, and honestly think Campbell did better than Collins, we can agree to disagree, I believed the offense looked better with a career backup, playing QB.

[MassSkinsFan]

Check out the sacks given up by NE in '07 and '08. It sure wasn't Tom Brady's mobility that caused him to be sacked about 20 times less.

It was 27 times less. And it was pretty much the same line - the only difference being that the RG position was done by committee in 2007 and stabilized in 2008. It's likely that in 2009 the number will be nearly the same as in 2007.

I'd say that the fact that Cassell hadn't started since HS and didn't work regularly with that unit until Brady went down contributed too, but to be fair Brady is much better at getting the ball out quickly and making decisions.

[RandyHolt]

A mobile QB can make a bad OLine look good. Throwing on the run, break tackle, plays designed for a crappy OL are all factors in how that mobile QB does.

[bubba9497]

A great quarterback makes a bad O-line look good

that's simply not true

While some superior QB skills help prevent some sacks, It can't hide the pressure, and the hits a QB takes, it doesn't cover up a lack of run game.

the QB position is the most dependent position in all of sports, no matter how great, he must rely on other positions/players/ play calling to succeed.

[#98QBKiller]

I'm doing the same you could say as most of you. Are we debating on him being the best? Or a "good" QB we need to build a better cast for?

IMO there is no qb that would have done consistently better given the circumstances. It just angers me to think we're going to dumb JC, get a rookie or some FA in the offseason and he does well with a BETTER LINE/BETTER RB and people like most of this site will act like it was JC.

There are simply TOO MANY VARIABLES of SUCK surrounding JC to get rid of him. If we do, there is just ANOTHER position we have to add that may or may not pan out.

It is JC and it is the OL and it is the coaching (on both sides of the ball). However, JC has been here long enough and with enough different supporting casts to show that no matter who is put around him he's going to be mediocre unless he has the best OL and the best WRs and the best HC and the best RB and the best defense.

He is not a QB to build a team around if you want to be a consistent contender for the division and the SB.

He is not a bad QB but he's not a good one either.

That's not average... that's GOOD.... This is the problem with most Redskins fans, they expect our QB to all-world. It's not gonna happen..

If you guys think those numbers for a game are average... then you think a 4,000 yard, 32 TD, 16 INT season is average???

I meant that thats a pretty good average. He said that he thought JC was capable of that every week, but he's not actually achieving that every week and to do so he needs everything around him to be perfect.

[Warhead36]

A good QB gets rid of the ball quickly. There is a reason Peyton Manning never gets hurt, and it's because he's always getting rid of the ball just before anyone can drill him.

A good QB also has the respect of opposing defenses. They won't blitz as much knowing that there is a good chance it will burn them. As a result the OL will look better because they're facing more 3 and 4 man rushes.

But right now our OL is just awful. Last year I thought it was really more on Campbell holding on to the ball and making them look bad but this year they're letting guys break through in 1-2 seconds. It's just dreadful.

[Skins_Win_Again]

that's simply not true

While some superior QB skills help prevent some sacks, It can't hide the pressure, and the hits a QB takes, it doesn't cover up a lack of run game.

the QB position is the most dependent position in all of sports, no matter how great, he must rely on other positions/players/ play calling to succeed.

bingo

[seriously]

that's simply not true

While some superior QB skills help prevent some sacks, It can't hide the pressure, and the hits a QB takes, it doesn't cover up a lack of run game.

the QB position is the most dependent position in all of sports, no matter how great, he must rely on other positions/players/ play calling to succeed.

wow. that's all coming from a guy named "bubba".. lol just messing with ya.

that sums it up pretty much, good post.

[SirClintonPortis]

It makes their stat line look better. However, I think Peyton Manning would get frustrated if he had D'Anthony Batiste "protecting" his blindside and incurring false start penalties.

[NewCliche21]

... and people call JC "simple"... I'm being questioned by a 5th grader.

Ignore him completely.

It makes your life here a lot better.

[seriously]

Ignore him completely.

It makes your life here a lot better.

thanks for the heads up..

[santana_4_prez]

Check out the sacks given up by NE in '07 and '08. It sure wasn't Tom Brady's mobility that caused him to be sacked about 20 times less.

Probably had nothing to do with the fact teams were blitzin' the crap out of Cassel because they weren't afraid of his arm...

[.THEkid.]

Anyone who thinks we need to surround JC with Pro Bowl Players (SERIOUSLY) is in denial and knows that JC is only a managable QB. And all this talk of defending JC, still claiming he's better then TC, are bafoons. When the giants led 17-0, I knew the game was over. Now I'm not bashing JC cause our OLine looked horrid. But when I saw TC come in, I blew my mind how THIS OLD BACKUP comes in time and time again, making a big play, with our horrid OLine. In the drive he actually led us to a TD (if not for Fred Davis dropping that pass before halftime).

JC is as good as gone, His stats should be thanked by his only targets which are, TEs and RBs. I really don't mind keeping him, only if we can upgrade the OLine, but honestly I want to see Colt get his shot. If our starting OLine is horrendous, I wonder what the backup OLine were like for Colt during Preseason. Build an OLine around Colt, and watch Thomas, Kelly, Marko, Davis, all look like Pro Bowlers. And if not him, draft a QB. At this point I really don't care, and if Shanahan comes here, I will bet my life, colt will be the starter.

[tr1]

Can Someone explain the logic in this to me? i hear all the time about how if we just had this one stud quarterback then our o-line wouldn't look as bad. it seems to me like a bad O-line is a bad O-line period regardless of whos behiend it.

To the OP: BS.

No running game and no pass protection usually gets qbs hurt.

[Water Boy]

You can make the argument that aaron rodgers has a worse O-line, he has been sacked 11 more times then campbell yet he has roughly 850 more passing yards, 10 more TD's, 7 less INT's.

Agree. Enough said.

[Avidpoet]

Yeah a great QB makes a line look good until they start to run the ball.

[CommanderDOOM]

WdCred has no cred at all!

I think that any football fan who can't respect Jason Campbell is a clown. The guy, if nothing else, has laid his own personal well-being on the line for the football team you claim to be a fan of.

And, by the way, the stats don't lie. Do you look at those?

And by the way, part 2: Ron Jaworski and a HOST of other guys with NFL experience think the 'Skins can win with Campbell.

What is your resume? Are you the fry manager at Burger Town or do you have coaching experience?

Is JC the greatest qb ever, or even in the NFC East? Nah. But he has in my mind earned our respect. Calling him Candle is pretty damned childish.

It is childish but dude, this is a forum. childish is ok if its funny and 'candle' has been played for a while now. Call him soup or something.....

YOu bring up respect. I heard Campbell said something about his teamates giving up on him. Is this true?? That's not a respectful comment from your leader. For every Jaws that says u can win with Campbell( if everything else is top notch) there are guys (guys who contributed to a 50something to 7 smashing) who think JC is a bum.

JC is not metally tough imo. Yes, i respect him for gettting up time after time and i think he is a generally nice guy but not a leader or a good QB.