A great quarterback makes a bad O-line look good

[NewCliche21]

This is what i think. An elite o-line makes the OFFENSE look better. with a good o-line they open up better run lanes and an average runningback can do well. for example, Timothy Smith superbowl Super Bowl XXII. With a good run game and good protection, we can run plays deeper and make a defense defend something other then short passes. this all helps the quarterback who in turn perfroms above average.

This.

[brasi]

WdCred has no cred at all!

I think that any football fan who can't respect Jason Campbell is a clown. The guy, if nothing else, has laid his own personal well-being on the line for the football team you claim to be a fan of.

And, by the way, the stats don't lie. Do you look at those?

And by the way, part 2: Ron Jaworski and a HOST of other guys with NFL experience think the 'Skins can win with Campbell.

What is your resume? Are you the fry manager at Burger Town or do you have coaching experience?

Is JC the greatest qb ever, or even in the NFC East? Nah. But he has in my mind earned our respect. Calling him Candle is pretty damned childish.

[seriously]

I don't think anyone really mentions that JC is "great". I do know one thing, Rodgers plays in a weaker division. I also KNOW from watching JC versus TC is opposing teams don't blitz Collins like they do Campbell.

The Chiefs games was the exception, as well as the "nail in the coffin" for me personally. I thought TC would be better too, he proved me wrong.

[wdcredskins]

WdCred has no cred at all!

I think that any football fan who can't respect Jason Campbell is a clown. The guy, if nothing else, has laid his own personal well-being on the line for the football team you claim to be a fan of.

And, by the way, the stats don't lie. Do you look at those?

And by the way, part 2: Ron Jaworski and a HOST of other guys with NFL experience think the 'Skins can win with Campbell.

What is your resume? Are you the fry manager at Burger Town or do you have coaching experience?

Is JC the greatest qb ever, or even in the NFC East? Nah. But he has in my mind earned our respect. Calling him Candle is pretty damned childish.

im a clown fellas. another stat guy. im childish for calling him candle so what makes u for calling me a clown?

[seriously]

In a nutshell, our OL and QB are both problems and both need to be fixed.

Jason Campbell isn't going to be any good behind a good OL and the current OL isn't going to be helped a lot by a better QB.

What good o-line have you seen him play behind? Oh, that's right you haven't.

[MassSkinsFan]

A great QB does not make a bad OL look good. Here's why:

• When an OL consistently misses assignments, it's obvious
  
• A QB who can make quick reads and get rid of the ball, or who can scramble out of trouble, does not disguise the fact that the OL is being manhandled or pushed back into the pocket
  
• In the running game the QB can't change the fact that holes don't develop
  

All in all I'd say that a great QB improves the offense, but does not make a bad OL look good. Same goes for a great OL - it improves the offense, but it does not make a bum QB or RB look good.

[Botched]

I don't think anyone really mentions that JC is "great". I do know one thing, Rodgers plays in a weaker division. I also KNOW from watching JC versus TC is opposing teams don't blitz Collins like they do Campbell.

The Chiefs games was the exception, as well as the "nail in the coffin" for me personally. I thought TC would be better too, he proved me wrong.

I'm not sure what you mean, Collins was hammered on Monday night, and he was pressured in the Chiefs game too. He was picking himself up off the turf just like Campbell was. In fact at the end of the Chiefs game he was blindsided for a safety.

With Campbell we saw nothing but screens and dump offs all night long, yet Collins was able to throw downfield immediately despite the pressure. Same in KC. You'd think the big, young, strong QB would be the one launching bombs downfield, but it was the 38 year old "noodle arm".

[Drastik]

Look at GB, Dal, Pitt...

Their OL's aren't very good either but their QB's are.

Dallas just has 3 pro-bowl starters on their o-line....

GB had injuries... they are healthier now... I wouldn't dare compare their o-line to ours.

Pittsburghs O-line is fine, Ben just holds the ball longer than any successful quarterback we've seen this decade. Give Pitt our o-line and give us theirs... there will be a noticeable difference..

just my 2 cents...

[Drastik]

A great QB does not make a bad OL look good. Here's why:

• When an OL consistently misses assignments, it's obvious
  
• A QB who can make quick reads and get rid of the ball, or who can scramble out of trouble, does not disguise the fact that the OL is being manhandled or pushed back into the pocket
  
• In the running game the QB can't change the fact that holes don't develop
  

All in all I'd say that a great QB improves the offense, but does not make a bad OL look good. Same goes for a great OL - it improves the offense, but it does not make a bum QB or RB look good.

I fully agree. :helmet:

[seriously]

that's an obvious. but as i said this to you ini another thread, why waste good protection on a useless Qb that cant do anything even when he has time.

the main issue with candle isnt a great offensive line will make candle look better because candle cant do anything even when he has time. it's how bad candle makes this bad oline worse than what they are. but when collins, a 40 yr old career back up that never practices with the starters and is at the en dof his career can come in and make the same offense candle was leading look 100x better is telling, dont u think?

you're cherry picking. how about the chiefs game? oh, we won't talk about that now will we?

the fact is no one game planned for TC, along with marginal defenses he faced in that stretch leading to the playoffs... Hell you can probably look and cherry pick 4 games for Jeff George, does that mean in the HERE AND NOW we need to swap him for "candle"?

TC threw one pass that was caught versus the Giants game to Moss and some of you are ready to crown him king, pathetic. Once again, how were they defending against TC?? They didn't rush but 3 guys that play. But, BUT, you won't mention that...

[grego]

Rodgers is the prototypical answer for a QB playing above his O-lines potential, but Rodgers also has a very quick release and he reads defenses much better, and you could argue that the top 5 WRs on Green Bay's Roster: Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Donald Lee (TE), and JerMichael Finley (TE), are as a whole a better corp than Moss, ARE, THomas, Kelly, and Mitchell, Cooley and Davis. Having WRs that don't give up on plays, that find seams in the defense also would help.

None of that matters if the QB can't read the defense quickly enough, and JC still has a penchant for being a bit slow on the decision making.

there are several other reasons why rogers puts up big #'s despite being sacked more than JC.

-holds the ball (i admittedly dont see all GB games, but this is what i understand)

- had a D that constanstly gives him a short field. i believe their D is still #1 or 2 in turnovers.

- while GB's O line looks bad in pass pro, they are much more highly rated in run O.(top 10 and #6 in power rushing) and a running game obviously will help a QB.

- Aaron rodgers is just a better, and more elusive QB

[seriously]

I'm not sure what you mean, Collins was hammered on Monday night, and he was pressured in the Chiefs game too. He was picking himself up off the turf just like Campbell was. In fact at the end of the Chiefs game he was blindsided for a safety.

With Campbell we saw nothing but screens and dump offs all night long, yet Collins was able to throw downfield immediately despite the pressure. Same in KC. You'd think the big, young, strong QB would be the one launching bombs downfield, but it was the 38 year old "noodle arm".

In the Giants game they got to him with less pressure, the Chiefs game showed same pressure=same result.

[grego]

Jason Campbell isn't going to be any good behind a good OL and the current OL isn't going to be helped a lot by a better QB.

while he may not be a HOFer, and not a great fit for this system (particularly behind this O line) campbell has shown he can be effective with even mediocre protection. and a coach calling good plays probably doesnt hurt.

i wouldnt think this was even debatable.

[#98QBKiller]

What good o-line have you seen him play behind? Oh, that's right you haven't.

2006, and parts of 2007-2008. Even when he has all the time in the world he's no better than a game manager.

[santana_4_prez]

40 yr old career backup that hasnt played in almost 2 yrs, never practices with the starters, comes in and hits moss for a big bomb vs the cheifs. only plays one half and ur reday to throw him under the gutter while candle is in hiis 50 start playing 5 yrs and u still want to give him another yr? another hilarious post.

but lets not jsut talk about the chiefs game. how about the giants game 3 days ago. u forgot that one huh pal? or how about those games 2 yrs ago to lead the skins to the playoffs?

it is what it is. we cant change it.

Settle down. I didn't say Campbell was awesome and I wanted him to be the QB for the future.

I just think it is funny when people think TC or CB is better than JC. Even with that "long pass" to 89 in the Chiefs game, Todd Collins still had less yards per attempt than Jason Campbell did in that game.

I want to draft a QB next year, and possibly keep JC around to start the beginning of the season with.

[#98QBKiller]

while he may not be a HOFer, and not a great fit for this system (particularly behind this O line) campbell has shown he can be effective with even mediocre protection. and a coach calling good plays probably doesnt hurt.

i wouldnt think this was even debatable.

What do you mean by effective? Mediocre?

[grego]

What do you mean by effective? Mediocre?

well, i guess thats the debate. there are people that say he is 'horrible', 'horrendous', 'worse than shuler or quinn'. this, despite the fact that his #'s indicate he is middle of the pack.

so, i'm not sure how do describe effective, but i would say a solid 2 TD's and 1 INT 250 yard a week QB is what he's shown he is capable of. maybe better, but i would certainly say not worse.

and i would say thats not bad in a sytem where his slow feet and slow release are not good things to possess.

[seriously]

2006, and parts of 2007-2008. Even when he has all the time in the world he's no better than a game manager.

Wasnt that his first 8 games in '06 and his 1st season in '07?? Even though I hardly call that a "good o-line".

I suppose the last few games were just flukes, silly me I thought we saw a qb in the Saints game operate pretty damn well if given any sort of time. I thought even though he was getting hit a lot the Raiders, Denver, even Dallas game he did very good.

[seriously]

well, i guess thats the debate. there are people that say he is 'horrible', 'horrendous', 'worse than shuler or quinn'. this, despite the fact that his #'s indicate he is middle of the pack.

so, i'm not sure how do describe effective, but i would say a solid 2 TD's and 1 INT 250 yard a week QB is what he's shown he is capable of. maybe better, but i would certainly say not worse.

Considering his supporting cast (coaching, personnel) IMO he has done damn good. I hope he returns, in a way though I hope for him he does leave and goes to a team with an o-line. He will outperform his replacement here.

[wdcredskins]

Settle down. I didn't say Campbell was awesome and I wanted him to be the QB for the future.

I just think it is funny when people think TC or CB is better than JC. Even with that "long pass" to 89 in the Chiefs game, Todd Collins still had less yards per attempt than Jason Campbell did in that game.

I want to draft a QB next year, and possibly keep JC around to start the beginning of the season with.

ummm, you do realize that colt has never played a professional football game? and who thinks colt is better than Candle when he has never played a game?

as for collins, less yards per attempt? again a stat guy. he made a deep pass which got close enough for a FG. he produced 2 FG. thats 6 pts to 0 pts for candle.

same with comp%. candle can pad his comp% by completing short screens and to his check downs all day to ahve high comp% but that does move the ball.

but lets get serious pal. we aint just talking about chiefs game. we are talking about giants game and games when he took over 2 yrs ago.

but ultimately, aint it sad that candle is being compared to a 40 yrs old career back up that is actually better than candle? a 40 yr old career back up can make a difference inthis offfense, imagine what a good or elite QBs can do.

that is all im saying.

[wdcredskins]

you're cherry picking. how about the chiefs game? oh, we won't talk about that now will we?

the fact is no one game planned for TC, along with marginal defenses he faced in that stretch leading to the playoffs... Hell you can probably look and cherry pick 4 games for Jeff George, does that mean in the HERE AND NOW we need to swap him for "candle"?

TC threw one pass that was caught versus the Giants game to Moss and some of you are ready to crown him king, pathetic. Once again, how were they defending against TC?? They didn't rush but 3 guys that play. But, BUT, you won't mention that...

what in the world is this guy talking about? LOL he said no one game planned for TC. LOL! do the redskins have another offensive coordinator when TC comes in the game? i mustve missed something.

[grego]

Considering his supporting cast (coaching, personnel) IMO he has done damn good. I hope he returns, in a way though I hope for him he does leave and goes to a team with an o-line. He will outperform his replacement here.

i agree. he has one of the worst lines in football, WR's and a running game that scare no one, and a coach who cant call a game.

expecting him to be a pro bowler in his current situation is not logical, imo.

[seriously]

what in the world is this guy talking about? LOL he said no one game planned for TC. LOL! do the redskins have another offensive coordinator when TC comes in the game? i mustve missed something.

... and people call JC "simple"... I'm being questioned by a 5th grader.

[Hunter_R]

Check out the sacks given up by NE in '07 and '08. It sure wasn't Tom Brady's mobility that caused him to be sacked about 20 times less.

[Mad Mike]

Can Someone explain the logic in this to me? i hear all the time about how if we just had this one stud quarterback then our o-line wouldn't look as bad. it seems to me like a bad O-line is a bad O-line period regardless of whos behiend it.

A bad O line is a bad O line. But a good quarterback can help. Maybe not make them look good, but better. It's a team sport.

Look what happened when Collins stepped in Monday night. He didn't hesitate, he got the ball out to the receivers faster. He got it out ON TIME, And for a moment there, you forgot about the line didn't you.

I think that's the essence of the problem with Campbell. He just has a bad sense of rhythm. His timing is off. That's why he's hit and miss. One play he's brilliant, the next, he's in another time zone. Maybe he should get checked for ADD. I know it effects me like that.

Anyway, back to the point... Yeah, a good quarterback helps.