Skins_Win_Again Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Can Someone explain the logic in this to me? i hear all the time about how if we just had this one stud quarterback then our o-line wouldn't look as bad. it seems to me like a bad O-line is a bad O-line period regardless of whos behiend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Look at the difference at times when Collins is in. He makes quicker decisions and the line doesn't have to block as long. This is really critical for us because the line is so bad. The less time they have to block the better for everyone. JC just takes too long for the wheels to turn. Not on evry play, but you can tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-H8-DALLAS Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 You can make the argument that aaron rodgers has a worse O-line, he has been sacked 11 more times then campbell yet he has roughly 850 more passing yards, 10 more TD's, 7 less INT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Look at the difference at times when Collins is in. He makes quicker decisions and the line doesn't have to block as long. This is really critical for us because the line is so bad. The less time they have to block the better for everyone. JC just takes too long for the wheels to turn. Not on evry play, but you can tell the difference. beat me to it. LOL to the OP. for a starter, a 40 yr old career back up comes in , makes the incompetent offense lead by jason candle 100 x better. To add to your post, candle is inaccurate. because he is inaccurate, he cant throw in tight coverages, or receivers in stride with a step on his defender. and due to this, he holds the ball longer requiring oline to protect longer and usually throws to receivers that have finished running their routes. lot of candle's mid range passes come when the receivers have turned around and are completely still. also, candle 's long bombs are so inaccurate that opponent fears him. this requires the D coordinator to stack the LOS. candle cant read defense prior to snap as well. has slow release. he rearely throws to receivers to their back, or right when the receivers are about to make their cut.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 You can make the argument that aaron rodgers has a worse O-line, he has been sacked 11 more times then campbell yet he has roughly 850 more passing yards, 10 more TD's, 7 less INT's. but arron rodgers is more elusive, has more pocket presence and WHEN HE DOES HAVE TIME and GOOD PROTECTION, he makes PLAYS. he takes advantage of it. Candle whether good or bad protection, he is still the same pathetic QB. this also applies to Big BEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins_Win_Again Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 but arron rodgers is more elusive, has more pocket presence and WHEN HE DOES HAVE TIME and GOOD PROTECTION, he makes PLAYS. he takes advantage of it. Candle whether good or bad protection, he is still the same pathetic QB. this also applies to Big BEN. okay no need to call him candle every time lol. and i think with time campbell can make some plays and about collins, he only had 4 attempts, in a prevent defense. it was right before half so they gave soft coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenRiggins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 A QB who can read a defense quickly and has a quick release. Also quick feet with pocket awareness will help a QB do well with a bad OL.... Look at GB, Dal, Pitt... Their OL's aren't very good either but their QB's are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Yep, Todd Collins lit up KC in the 2nd half... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Look at Tom Brady. He looks like a highschool QB under pressure--yes, looks even worse than Campbell. He just can't function when he's about to be sacked. Guy is so damn overrated. So, I do think a good O-line is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 okay no need to call him candle every time lol. and i think with time campbell can make some plays and about collins, he only had 4 attempts, in a prevent defense. it was right before half so they gave soft coverage. who plays prevent going in to the half? this is almot funny as another homer saying that pass to moss by collins was a hail marry! LOL that's right 4 attempts. he only needed 4 attempts to make a difference. but what does 4 attempts got to do with making a qb making the line better than what they are? the fact is he got rid of it quicker. that is the point here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins_Win_Again Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 A QB who can read a defense quickly and has a quick release.Also quick feet with pocket awareness will help a QB do well with a bad OL.... Look at GB, Dal, Pitt... Their OL's aren't very good either but their QB's are. Well Pitt's line is underrated. im not saying their great but they're not complete garbage. Big ben has admitted he holds tha ball forever. and Dal is no where near our state lol. buut back to the line, i still dont get it. if a line is bad, they will still get blown up and give up quick pressure (like ours) Now mabye a quarterback can deal with that better and make better reads/throws but the o-line still looks like some straight up trash as they get manhandled (like ours). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I think with a QB who has more tools to work with (ie. a better QB), the offense can adjust more quickly to defensive schemes. In Sunday's game, with NY blitzing every play, we should have been able to adjust by throwing in the gaps created by the rushes. That type of success would have made the defense change. Instead, with Campbell, who does have some strong qualities, but who is pretty one dimensional, the defenses just don't have to adjust. They can just load up. That one pass that Collins threw to Moss was a pass that we just don't see much from Campbell: the touch pass. That type of pass capability does loosen up a defense, and eventually does help make an offensive line do a better job. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Yep, Todd Collins lit up KC in the 2nd half... 40 yr old career backup that hasnt played in almost 2 yrs, never practices with the starters, comes in and hits moss for a big bomb vs the cheifs. only plays one half and ur reday to throw him under the gutter while candle is in hiis 50 start playing 5 yrs and u still want to give him another yr? another hilarious post. but lets not jsut talk about the chiefs game. how about the giants game 3 days ago. u forgot that one huh pal? or how about those games 2 yrs ago to lead the skins to the playoffs? it is what it is. we cant change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins_Win_Again Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 who plays prevent going in to the half? this is almot funny as another homer saying that pass to moss by collins was a hail marry! LOLthat's right 4 attempts. he only needed 4 attempts to make a difference. but what does 4 attempts got to do with making a qb making the line better than what they are? the fact is he got rid of it quicker. that is the point here. i meant soft coverage, they were willing to give up shorter passes just not big passes. a prevent-like defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 You can make the argument that aaron rodgers has a worse O-line, he has been sacked 11 more times then campbell yet he has roughly 850 more passing yards, 10 more TD's, 7 less INT's. Rodgers is the prototypical answer for a QB playing above his O-lines potential, but Rodgers also has a very quick release and he reads defenses much better, and you could argue that the top 5 WRs on Green Bay's Roster: Driver, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Donald Lee (TE), and JerMichael Finley (TE), are as a whole a better corp than Moss, ARE, THomas, Kelly, and Mitchell, Cooley and Davis. Having WRs that don't give up on plays, that find seams in the defense also would help. None of that matters if the QB can't read the defense quickly enough, and JC still has a penchant for being a bit slow on the decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 there is merit to the argument as pointed out, quicker decisions, better reads, better audibles, buying time in the pocket or scrambling all lead to tremendous offensive production, but if I had to choose between an elite QB and an elite oline, I'd go with an oline... I've seen too many examples of great QBs being nullified by constant pressure, whereas I've seen just as many examples of average QBs having all the time in the world and looking better than they probably are... not to mention the ramifications to the running game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Look at Tom Brady. He looks like a highschool QB under pressure--yes, looks even worse than Campbell. He just can't function when he's about to be sacked. Guy is so damn overrated. So, I do think a good O-line is needed. oh brother! another guy comapring brady with candle. so brady has had almot perfect protection through out his career? LOL the same pat's lline gave up more sacks than candle last yr with a different QB. matter of fact, it lead the league. with the same line brady wsa sacked 22 times yr before. now do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchap Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Just look at the Cowboys a few years ago with Bledsoe vs. when they put Romo sits to pee in. Huge difference, same guys on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Just a couple recent examples: Tony Romo sits to pee was only sacked 20 times in 13 games last year, which looks great. Yet when he was injured his replacements were sacked 11 times in only 3 games. That's more than twice as much, and the only difference was the QB. Romo sits to pee is great at avoiding pressure, as we saw when he threw a game-winning TD against us early this year. He makes his line look much better than it is. Kurt Warner last year is another decent example. He is not elusive like Romo sits to pee at all, he is just able to make quick decisions and get the ball out fast. His line was nothing special at all, in fact the Cardinals had the worst run game in the league last year and I believe he was hit more than any other QB. Still, he got the job done and if you didn't watch any Cardinals games you would think they had a stellar offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 i meant soft coverage, they were willing to give up shorter passes just not big passes. a prevent-like defense LOL. so they were willing to give short and not long but collins still connects Moss deep? so they wrere covering MOSS! LOL dude, that pass to moss had 2 defenders on him. Moss just simply had a step on them. and the main point is, candle would not only have made that pass because he is inaccurate but he would no thave seen him. candle's vision is horrendous as well. he locks on 1 receiver... WHy ... why would anyone want to give up short passess and not big passes which is basically prevent anyway? but lets go with ur term soft coverage. why give them short passes? why give any completitons? why give any point 3, or 7 at that point. they still had another half ot play. it wasnt end of the game. oh man. what is going on. there is so many things that candle cant do, it isnt funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 While it can go this way, a great offensive line will, more often than not, make a quarterback look much better than he really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacanechaser Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Yep, Todd Collins lit up KC in the 2nd half... youre right, however, zorn was still calling the plays then, which we all know is horrible... all you have to do is look at the deep pass that connected with tana in stride when he came in monday night.... campbell never does that... it was a quick read, and a perfect pass... collins went down, but he read it, took the shot and it was money... he had another one if i remember correctly but it was dropped... campbell, over thown or horribly under thrown most cases.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins_Win_Again Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 there is merit to the argument as pointed out, quicker decisions, better reads, better audibles, buying time in the pocket or scrambling all lead to tremendous offensive production, but if I had to choose between an elite QB and an elite oline, I'd go with an oline... I've seen too many examples of great QBs being nullified by constant pressure, whereas I've seen just as many examples of average QBs having all the time in the world and looking better than they probably are... not to mention the ramifications to the running game... This is what i think. An elite o-line makes the OFFENSE look better. with a good o-line they open up better run lanes and an average runningback can do well. for example, Timothy Smith superbowl Super Bowl XXII. With a good run game and good protection, we can run plays deeper and make a defense defend something other then short passes. this all helps the quarterback who in turn perfroms above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 In a nutshell, our OL and QB are both problems and both need to be fixed. Jason Campbell isn't going to be any good behind a good OL and the current OL isn't going to be helped a lot by a better QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcredskins Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 While it can go this way, a great offensive line will, more often than not, make a quarterback look much better than he really is. that's an obvious. but as i said this to you ini another thread, why waste good protection on a useless Qb that cant do anything even when he has time. the main issue with candle isnt a great offensive line will make candle look better because candle cant do anything even when he has time. it's how bad candle makes this bad oline worse than what they are. but when collins, a 40 yr old career back up that never practices with the starters and is at the en dof his career can come in and make the same offense candle was leading look 100x better is telling, dont u think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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