What QB could perform behind that lousy OL!!!!`

[THE TRUTH DETECTOR]

Oh boy.... here we go.

The redskins dont have a spectacular, short field giving, ball stripping, kick you in the nuts, low point allowing, intercepting, bust you up in the grill, scoring type defense.

Big Ben does... or rather, he did. How is he looking this year without that defense? Think they are going tothe Superbowl?

Amen.

[THE TRUTH DETECTOR]

this is baffling and pathetic. JC probably has triple the game time experience that collins has, yet because hes older and been around longer you cant compare them?

and LOL at gameplanning for campbell. heres how that meeting went:

D coordinator: "blitz. a lot. meeting over. who wants cheeseburgers?"

Same gameplan for Collins my friend

[Seabee1973]

disclaimer: i only read the first 2 of 17 pages, so I figure someone already mentioned this...but...

Ben Roethlisberger, his first 4 seasons in the league, was the most sacked quarterback over that time period (by a good bit)

and he won 2 super bowls...

next question?

He also has a lot better team around him if they ever get an offensive line in Pitt though his sacks will go down

[SoCalSkins]

If we do not get some offensive line talent it will continue to be the same issues no matter who is quarterback. If I was a college qb no way I want to take the beating Campbell has this year. I think Campbell is done here and I really do not think he is going to complain or miss getting beat up every game.You think Colt wants the job with serviceable lineman? Bradford ? Cowboys. Watch their offensive line this Sunday. Until we get that type of talent the Redskins will continue to be at the bottom of the NFC and NFL

When we have played different players at the QB position since JC joined the team, we have made the playoffs. Your claim that another QB would not succeed behind this line is not based on anything other than your deluded excuse created in your mind to support the failure of a QB you love so much.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Same gameplan for Collins my friend

so the gameplan is the same for a 38 year old career backup with hardly any NFL experience as it is for a healthy huge armed 1st round draft pick from 2005 with 50 starts?

wow. thats not telling at all.

[Passizle]

When we have played different players at the QB position since JC joined the team, we have made the playoffs. Your claim that another QB would not succeed behind this line is not based on anything other than your deluded excuse created in your mind to support the failure of a QB you love so much.

True. both time on Portis' back. The numbers have been shown that the offensive production did not change much except in the points score. I'll give you that. But its not like TC was scoring alot. He only threw 4 TD's in 4 games. A number that gets thrown in JC's face all the time.

To further the point, it was also shown that during that same stretch, the defense really stepped up and allowed less ppg, les yards, created shorter fields and so on... this is not to take anyting away from Collins. H played brilliantly inspired football. But to analyze the data and come to a conclusion that soem how just plugging TC changed the dynamic ofthe entire team is shot sighted. And, if it were true, why have we not seen the same spark in the times TC has been plugged in again? Lets also try to stay on point. Point is the offensive line.

Do youreally think that drafting a rookie QB and pluggin him in behind this line is a recipe for success? Or how about a vet like Garcia? Do you see arcia having muchsuccess with this front five?

[Heisenberg]

Oh boy.... here we go.

The redskins dont have a spectacular, short field giving, ball stripping, kick you in the nuts, low point allowing, intercepting, bust you up in the grill, scoring type defense.

Big Ben does... or rather, he did. How is he looking this year without that defense? Think they are going tothe Superbowl?

BTW, your facts are wrong. Ben was sacked 146 times in his first 4 seasons. Thats 36.5 times per year average. David car was sacked 208 times in his first 4 years. Hardly a comparison. Without looking for t, I am sure I can further debunk that if this was not enough...

As I pointed out before, a large majority of Big Ben's sacks are of his own creation. He is known for holding onto the ball forever - which can result in big plays down the field but also results in a lot of sacks. Anyone who watches the Steelers play somewhat regularly knows this and the commentators talk about it all the time as part of the package when he's your QB.

The offensive line in Pittsburgh isn't the greatest but it's a decent enough line to win with - which we don't have here.

I don't even care anymore, bench Campbell's ass or whatever - the whole team is pretty much terrible except for random players. I'm just tired of the classless posts by fans along with the misleading information such as "Big Ben gets sacked just as much therefore his line is just as bad."

[Passizle]

As I pointed out before, a large majority of Big Ben's sacks are of his own creation. He is known for holding onto the ball forever - which can result in big plays down the field but also results in a lot of sacks. Anyone who watches the Steelers play somewhat regularly knows this and the commentators talk about it all the time as part of the package when he's your QB.

The offensive line in Pittsburgh isn't the greatest but it's a decent enough line to win with - which we don't have here.

I don't even care anymore, bench Campbell's ass or whatever - the whole team is pretty much terrible except for random players. I'm just tired of the classless posts by fans along with the misleading information such as "Big Ben gets sacked just as much therefore his line is just as bad."

Eh. Dont take it personally. There are alot of simpleton statistics thrown round alot. Unfortunatley, there are also a few juvenile posters who use over the top antics and personal insults to get their point across. It happen when you have anonimity with a messag board. The bark is far worse than the bite.

[DieselPwr44]

I say: 6 years 65 million deal for Campbell. By the end of this deal, he'll be on level with Ryan and Flacco so then we can extend him another 7 years.

Just have to show a modicum of patience with this guy. Throughout history, the really "great" ones take ten years to develop.

Shame on BLC,SoCal and the other agenda boyZ haters for pushing their grassy knoll conspiracy!!

Damn you!! Damn you all to hell!!!!!!!!!!

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

As I pointed out before, a large majority of Big Ben's sacks are of his own creation. He is known for holding onto the ball forever - which can result in big plays down the field but also results in a lot of sacks. Anyone who watches the Steelers play somewhat regularly knows this and the commentators talk about it all the time as part of the package when he's your QB.

The offensive line in Pittsburgh isn't the greatest but it's a decent enough line to win with - which we don't have here.

I don't even care anymore, bench Campbell's ass or whatever - the whole team is pretty much terrible except for random players. I'm just tired of the classless posts by fans along with the misleading information such as "Big Ben gets sacked just as much therefore his line is just as bad."

and that sword swings both ways. we'll never know if our line looks even worse because campbell sucks so bad. maybe our line is just bottom tier? not worst in the universe? maybe if we had a better QB the line wouldnt be as major of an issue. plenty of teams get away without having good lines, i always go back to green bay, theyre the prime example of how a great QB can make up for poor oline play.

[Heisenberg]

and that sword swings both ways. we'll never know if our line looks even worse because campbell sucks so bad. maybe our line is just bottom tier? not worst in the universe? maybe if we had a better QB the line wouldnt be as major of an issue. plenty of teams get away without having good lines, i always go back to green bay, theyre the prime example of how a great QB can make up for poor oline play.

I'm done arguing about it - but Campbell had less than a second to react at times last night. Not every play - and he certainly played awful - but for the vast majority of the game that was the WORST performance by an NFL offensive line that I have ever seen. Period.

Ben R. wouldn't have had time to hold onto the ball for 3 seconds let alone the 5-7 he is known for doing to try to create a big play. The situations are entirely different.

[jnhay]

Todd Collins seemed to be doing well.

He did? I fell asleep.

hold on. How could he have done anything going 2-4?

[Santana_Fan]

Jason Campbell vs Giants: 0-6

Todd Collins vs. Giants: 1-0

Jason Campbell vs teams finishing with 10 or more wins since start of 2007: 0-11

Todd Collins vs teams finishing with 10 or more wins since start of 2007: 2-0

Todd Collins would not have won yesterday either. He didn't give up plays on defense, and he for damn sure can't run out of the pocket when the line breaks down, which is 90% of the time.

[redskinsgod]

Same gameplan for Collins my friend

Not! Thats why his first 4 snaps of the game gained more yards than campbells whole first half. Take the blinders off. And, those yards would have been more if Davis didn't drop a perfect pass at the 2 yard line.

Where are the other trolls that start all the threads on JC then have the nerve to blame everyone else for bashing him? They know who they are. Guess they are in hiding until something good happens with JC.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I'm done arguing about it - but Campbell had less than a second to react at times last night. Not every play - and he certainly played awful - but for the vast majority of the game that was the WORST performance by an NFL offensive line that I have ever seen. Period.

Ben R. wouldn't have had time to hold onto the ball for 3 seconds let alone the 5-7 he is known for doing to try to create a big play. The situations are entirely different.

lol, you say that but you always end up back here.

the line played poorly, but its not a very good line. it just got overwhelmed last night because the blitzing is too much for them to take, and because campbell cant pick up the blitz or make a team pay for it, our oline pays the price and gets crushed.

there were definitely plays where guys came in untouched, no clue whos fault that was, id have to believe it was a scheme issue in terms of a missed assignment, and if thats the case than the guys on the line and campbell have piss poor communication, which goes back to coaching.

this whole thing needs to be blown up. i realllllly cant wait for the purging.

[redskinsgod]

Todd Collins would not have won yesterday either. He didn't give up plays on defense, and he for damn sure can't run out of the pocket when the line breaks down, which is 90% of the time.

I love how you say that with such confidence, along with all the other JC fans who are on life support for their guy. We may not have won but we sure wouldn't have lost by a landslide. And collins doesn't have to run, he reads the D 10x faster than campbell and gets the ball out of his hands fast. Did you even watch the game? The excuses keep piling up.

[Heisenberg]

lol, you say that but you always end up back here.

That's because I haven't been arguing about Campbell's talent (or lack thereof) despite what you've tried to act like I've been saying.

I'll gladly debate how bad the line is though. Considering it's been talked about on virtually every radio show and ESPN segment for the past 15 hours or so I'd have to say that you're one of the only people who doesn't realize how truly awful it is.

Comparing it to the Pittsburgh or even the Green Bay line is absolutely absurd.

[redskinsgod]

He did? I fell asleep.

hold on. How could he have done anything going 2-4?

shoulda watched the game and you would know. Doesn't do any good for you to post here if you didn't because it was obvious what Collins did in 2 minutes that campbell couldn't do in 30. I don't think you have woken up yet.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

That's because I haven't been arguing about Campbell's talent (or lack thereof) despite what you've tried to act like I've been saying.

I'll gladly debate how bad the line is though. Considering it's been talked about on virtually every radio show and ESPN segment for the past 15 hours or so I'd have to say that you're one of the only people who doesn't realize how truly awful it is.

Comparing it to the Pittsburgh or even the Green Bay line is absolutely absurd.

the line seemed to be ok against the saints and the raiders when we werent getting blitzed like crazy. so many people thought we'd "turned a corner" then the giants decide to send pressure all night and were back to "everyone thinks we have the worst line in the history of football".

newsflash: its the same group of guys that helped put up 30 spots two weeks in a row, they just didnt have a psycho pass rush slamming into it for 4 quarters.

[Passizle]

I love how you say that with such confidence, along with all the other JC fans who are on life support for their guy. We may not have won but we sure wouldn't have lost by a landslide. And collins doesn't have to run, he reads the D 10x faster than campbell and gets the ball out of his hands fast. Did you even watch the game? The excuses keep piling up.

And you know this because of the one pass he completed to a well covered Moss (who had to adjust and make a juggling catch btw...) while throwing off his back foot while under seige from the Giants pass rush? Ok then... :hysterical:

[Heisenberg]

the line seemed to be ok against the saints and the raiders when we werent getting blitzed like crazy. so many people thought we'd "turned a corner" then the giants decide to send pressure all night and were back to "everyone thinks we have the worst line in the history of football".

newsflash: its the same group of guys that helped put up 30 spots two weeks in a row, they just didnt have a psycho pass rush slamming into it for 4 quarters.

You pretty much answered your own question.

Add to that the fact that neither those teams have Osi and Tuck on their defensive line and that tells you all you need to know.

Giants defensive front is nasty - it's nothing new. Ask Tom Brady - but they completely exposed exactly how patchwork that offensive line is.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You pretty much answered your own question.

Add to that the fact that neither those teams have Osi and Tuck on their defensive line and that tells you all you need to know.

Giants defensive front is nasty - it's nothing new. Ask Tom Brady - but they completely exposed exactly how patchwork that offensive line is.

the point is the line is the same group. theyve shown that as long as they dont get blitzed like crazy, they can do an ok job holding up. are they good? no. do they need upgrade? of course. are they the worst ever? hell no. do they look abysmal when the blitz is on? yes.

find me a line in the NFL that gets blitzed as much as we do that holds up. if theres a stat id love to see its which oline/QB combo gets the most heat thrown at it. id venture to say that we are easily top 5 in that category.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

this is baffling and pathetic. JC probably has triple the game time experience that collins has, yet because hes older and been around longer you cant compare them?

and LOL at gameplanning for campbell. heres how that meeting went:

D coordinator: "blitz. a lot. meeting over. who wants cheeseburgers?"

I know your being funny here, but you have no idea how right you are.

The Giants came out and knew what and how to attack JC without any regard for his ability to counter their pressure. I believe part of the game plan was to just show JC 9 men in the box ready to blitz knowing he will forget about looking down field and immediately look to check it down, which is futile when there is 9 men near the LOS. Pass the cheesburgers please!

[redskinsgod]

And you know this because of the one pass he completed to a well covered Moss (who had to adjust and make a juggling catch btw...) while throwing off his back foot while under seige from the Giants pass rush? Ok then... :hysterical:

And you proved my point. When have you ever described campbell making such a pass??? Never.

And Moss was covered, but open, and the pass was perfect. If anything Moss was so surprised to see the ball that he almost dropped it. Thats what happens to your best receiver when you never throw him the ball like Campbell. He forgets how to catch.

Are you seriously going to argue with us about how collins performed in that series? Don't you have more shoveling to do at campbells house? LOL.

[Passizle]

the line seemed to be ok against the saints and the raiders when we werent getting blitzed like crazy. so many people thought we'd "turned a corner" then the giants decide to send pressure all night and were back to "everyone thinks we have the worst line in the history of football".

newsflash: its the same group of guys that helped put up 30 spots two weeks in a row, they just didnt have a psycho pass rush slamming into it for 4 quarters.

The Skins ran a completeley different scheme last night. We did not pull much, play action much, or roll out much. But the few ties we did, you saw the bigger gains from the offense. For a large portion of the game, the offensive playcalling was somewhat vanilla and asking our 2nd and 3rd string guys to block the starters of the Giants.

BTW. People use the term blitz" too much and dont know what they are talking about. Just because a defensive lineman beats his guy for a quicksakc does not mean it is a blitz. Our guys were getting beat-a-plenty on 4 man rushes.