What QB could perform behind that lousy OL!!!!`

[Shilsu]

Actually his final drive was the drive where Barney Fife missed the Field Goal lol but yeah Jason probably shouldve pushed his leg to the right a lil bit to help him aim it better lol....

That wasn't his final drive, and the point stands that if you're going to give reasons for why Jason Campbell shouldn't be blamed for failing to score points on that drive, you shouldn't hold it against Todd Collins either.

[RocketCitySkins]

Against a Giants D that took their foot off our neck because the game was over.

With all the factors I listed, Collins UNDENIABLY OUTPLAYED Candle. Let alone the fact that JC sure as hell didn't provide the momentum change in our O.

Do you get it yet? Did you even check my links?

You mean the first link to this?:hysterical:

[Santana_Fan]

A Redskins fan.

At this point, cheering for Candle to be our #1 is AGAINST the best interests of the team.

Ok, respect. I appreciate the honesty.

[HailGreen28]

You mean the first link to this?:hysterical:

LOL! :hysterical: You want to totally ignore that Collins totally outplayed Candle by the links I gave you, don't you?

Collins' rating for the NYG game: 95.8

Candle's rating: 57.4

Collins' breathed new life in our offense.

Candle got the first stringer practice reps, has been practicing/playing all year.

Even the KC game, the only time Collins got a half of action, while JCs stats were better, only Collins led to scores.

Since you obviously can't argue against the facts I posted earlier,

Concession Accepted.

[hobbie8046]

Does nobody here remember how bad Collins was against KC?

Regardless of your feelings on JC, you have to admit that offensive line last night was atrocious. I like JC (probably a lot more than I should), and I recognize that he looked awful last night. He was not seeing the field well at all. That said, I'm not sure that ti would have made much of a difference if he was. That whole team, especially the o-line, is just amateur. There's nothing more that can be said about last night. The coaches are bottom of the barrel, the defensive players are for the most part lackluster and the offensive line is just atrocious...and don't get me started on the running backs...Ganther just sucks, I don't care what anyone has to say about it.

[HailGreen28]

Ok, respect. I appreciate the honesty.

I think some of you guys are arguing honestly as well, well not Rocketcity in his last post, but we're all still Skins' fans to still be here, I think.

[hobbie8046]

LOL! :hysterical: You want to totally ignore that Collins totally outplayed Candle by the links I gave you, don't you?

Collins' rating for the NYG game: 95.8

Candle's rating: 57.4

Collins' breathed new life in our offense.

Candle got the first stringer practice reps, has been practicing/playing all year.

Even the KC game, the only time Collins got a half of action, while JCs stats were better, only Collins led to scores.

Since you obviously can't argue against the facts I posted earlier,

Concession Accepted.

You can't be serious. You're going to use a QB rating based upon 4 plays to justify your point?

edit: I mixed up some numbers and posted his completion percentage instead of his rating. Still, JC has put up 100+ 4 times and 90+ another 4 times.

[Shilsu]

You can't be serious. You're going to use a QB rating based upon 4 plays to justify your point? Do you not remember that Collins' rating for the KC game was a 42.9? He got an entire half against a far inferior defense. That is the true barometer. There is a reason that he was a career long backup.

You said it yourself. The Kansas City game was the true barometer.

Todd Collins - 60.1 QBR

Jason Campbell - 46.1 QBR

Let's see how you try and backpedal out of this one.

[Santana_Fan]

I think some of you guys are arguing honestly as well, well not Rocketcity in his last post, but we're all still Skins' fans to still be here, I think.

I'm just here to put out my opinions. I'm not here to hold grudges with any of my own (Redskins fans). I just hate when certain people feel the need to call me out about an opinion in which I'm entitled to, then that's when I react. I may quote others to speak my opinion, but I'm not necessarily knocking their opinion. Other people's opinions are helpful to me, because I'm able to learn new things and look at things from a different perspective.

Redskins till the end

[hobbie8046]

You said it yourself. The Kansas City game was the true barometer.

Todd Collins - 60.1 QBR

Jason Campbell - 46.1 QBR

Let's see how you try and backpedal out of this one.

It's because JC threw a pick. I mixed up some numbers, but I still stand by my opinion. They both sucked. They both had under 50% completion and threw for under 100 yards.

[Avidpoet]

That wasn't his final drive, and the point stands that if you're going to give reasons for why Jason Campbell shouldn't be blamed for failing to score points on that drive, you shouldn't hold it against Todd Collins either.

I kinda like them both fo real all I know is I cant wait until next year. These JC debates are funny to read man especially with a couple of brews.

[Shilsu]

It's because JC threw a pick. I mixed up some numbers, but I still stand by my opinion. They both sucked. They both had under 50% completion and threw for under 100 yards.

Your opinion was that Todd Collins is no better than Jason Campbell because his QB Rating was worse than Campbell in the Kansas City game. You even referred to it as "the barometer".

Now that you've been exposed to be factually wrong, you're trying to backpedal. Hilarious.

[HailGreen28]

You can't be serious. You're going to use a QB rating based upon 4 plays to justify your point? Do you not remember that Collins' rating for the KC game was a 42.9? He got an entire half against a far inferior defense. That is the true barometer. There is a reason that he was a career long backup.

edit: JC's lowest rating of the year is higher than Todd's only substantial game of the year (42.9 vs KC against Campbell's 46.1 in the same game). JC has put up 100+ 4 times and 90+ another 4 times.

Good stats, yet Candle doesn't produce results on the field. And Candle's avg for the season is 87, which puts JC solidly in the middle of the pack at #16 among starting QBs.

In the KC game, Collins had worse stats, but led scoring drives that Candle couldn't. That is the true barometer I think you have to go by as a Skins fan.

I would like to judge Collins on a lot more than 4 plays. Unfortunately that's all he was given last night. I say start Collins the next two games, and see if he can be our placeholder/backup rather than Candle.

[hobbie8046]

Your opinion was that Todd Collins is no better than Jason Campbell because his QB Rating was worse than Campbell in the Kansas City game. You even referred to it as "the barometer".

Now that you've been exposed to be factually wrong, you're trying to backpedal. Hilarious.

If you take out JC's pick (one throw...), his rating becomes a 72.1. I know you can't take the pick away, but if you think about it it's one throw. If ONE play hadn't happened, the argument would be reversed. The fact of the matter is that they both played like crap. We're basically saying who sucked less than who, which is a pointless argument.

This is not back pedaling. I still stand by my point. I just realized who I'm arguing with, and I'm going to stop. I've seen you in other threads and it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you that is void of name calling and/or other inappropriate gestures.

[Shilsu]

If you take out JC's pick (one throw...), his rating becomes a 72.1. I know you can't take the pick away, but if you think about it it's one throw. If ONE play hadn't happened, the argument would be reversed. The fact of the matter is that they both played like crap. We're basically saying who sucked less than who, which is a pointless argument.

This is not back pedaling. I still stand by my point. I just realized who I'm arguing with, and I'm going to stop. I've seen you in other threads and it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you that is void of name calling and/or other inappropriate gestures.

LOL. You're going to take out an interception now because it affects his QBR? And if it's such a pointless argument, why did you initially make it and now you're trying to run away from it?

This is why most Campbell-apologists are funny. They say the stupidest things.

[Botched]

Your opinion was that Todd Collins is no better than Jason Campbell because his QB Rating was worse than Campbell in the Kansas City game. You even referred to it as "the barometer".

It's pretty sad that we are even comparing our starter to a mediocre career backup. And it's even more sad that the career backup has played as well or better than our starter at every opportunity.

[hobbie8046]

'This message is hidden because Shilsu is on your ignore list.'

I said I was done. All you do is come on here and spew negativity in an attempt to make yourself feel better. I'm done reading your pointless dribble. I'm not sure why I didn't ignore you earlier...

That said, I made my point and I stand by it. If one play sways the QB rating so much, it's not a very solid foundation upon which to build one's argument.

[HailGreen28]

'This message is hidden because Shilsu is on your ignore list.'

I said I was done. All you do is come on here and spew negativity in an attempt to make yourself feel better. I'm done reading your pointless dribble. I'm not sure why I didn't ignore you earlier...

That said, I made my point and I stand by it. If one play sways the QB rating so much, it's not a very solid foundation upon which to build one's argument.

Then read this on Shilsu's behalf: CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

Shilsu made his point(s).

And you might as well put me on ignore too. Far as I'm concerned, we could stick a fork in you: You're Done!

[Shilsu]

'This message is hidden because Shilsu is on your ignore list.'

I said I was done. All you do is come on here and spew negativity in an attempt to make yourself feel better. I'm done reading your pointless dribble. I'm not sure why I didn't ignore you earlier...

That said, I made my point and I stand by it. If one play sways the QB rating so much, it's not a very solid foundation upon which to build one's argument.

I just want to point out to everyone else that hobbie8046 is the one who used the QB ratings in the Kansas City game to prove that Jason Campbell is better than Todd Collins, referring to it as the "true barometer". Except in typical doofus-fashion, he got the QB ratings wrong.

When he found out that Todd Collins actually had the better QB rating, he went back and deleted everything he said, and now claims that QB rating is "not a very solid foundation to build one's argument".

What an idiot.

[hobbie8046]

Then read this on Shilsu's behalf: CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

Shilsu made his point(s).

And you might as well put me on ignore too. Far as I'm concerned, we could stick a fork in you: You're Done!

Oh really? How about this one?

Career QB Rating:

JC - 82.2

TC - 76.0

If these ridiculously calculated ratings are the say all, end all as you two seem to think they are...where do these numbers leave you?

[hobbie8046]

I think I'll continue...

Career stats:

Completion %

JC - 61.1

TC - 56.5

YPA

JC - 6.67

TC - 6.65

TD-INT ratio

JC - 1.43

TC - 1.16

[Shilsu]

I think I'll continue...

Career stats:

Completion %

JC - 61.1

TC - 56.5

YPA

JC - 6.67

TC - 6.65

TD-INT ratio

JC - 1.43

TC - 1.16

I think it's becoming incredibly clear that this moron has no grasp of statistics or numbers.

[HailGreen28]

Oh really? How about this one?

Career QB Rating:

JC - 82.2

TC - 76.0

If these ridiculously calculated ratings are the say all, end all as you two seem to think they are...where do these numbers leave you?

It's less than the difference between a QB that gets first string reps and one that doesn't. Between a QB that plays almost all the season, and one with extremely small sample size.

Read my earlier posts, maybe they'll explain it better. And check the edit dates: I DON'T go back and edit out my own arguments. (grammar sure..)

[hobbie8046]

It's less than the difference between a QB that gets first string reps and one that doesn't. Between a QB that plays almost all the season, and one with extremely small sample size.

Read my earlier posts, maybe they'll explain it better. And check the edit dates: I DON'T go back and edit out my own arguments. (grammar sure..)

You seem to forget that in my edit I stated that "I mixed up the numbers." Nice try, though.

When you can't refute the evidence, resort to personal attacks.

[mi6]

That wasn't the question' date=' nor does your reply answer it.

The question was who could perform behind that line? The answer is Collins! He moved the ball further, and better than JC in just over a minute, than JC moved the ball the entire half. He was also in the process with his passing in forcing the Giants from putting 9 men in the box, but some how JC conjured up his amazing recuperative powers to once again make it back on the field and save us all from that no good Todd Collins.[/quote']

Well said! For all the JC fans ... they got to see in real time the comparisions between a decent QB and a BAD one. 40 year old over the hill noodle armed Todd Collins showed Jason how it's done.

Wish the Skins have the courage to play Todd against the Cowturds.