What QB could perform behind that lousy OL!!!!`

[morpheusmeyers]

That's my point.

I'm pissed at his performance last night, but other posters ruin that for me by calling names. They don't even realize that they're hurting themselves.

Stop agreeing with me .

[RocketCitySkins]

LOL! :hysterical: You want to totally ignore that Collins totally outplayed Candle by the links I gave you, don't you?

Collins' rating for the NYG game: 95.8

Candle's rating: 57.4

Collins' breathed new life in our offense.

Candle got the first stringer practice reps, has been practicing/playing all year.

Even the KC game, the only time Collins got a half of action, while JCs stats were better, only Collins led to scores.

Since you obviously can't argue against the facts I posted earlier,

Concession Accepted.

Why is the score but not the better stats the benchmark for Collins in the KC game but the stats and not the two scores the benchmark for Campbell in the Giants game???? It's impossible to take anyone seriously who has double standards and changes them to fit their agenda.

[HailGreen28]

Why is the score but not the better stats the benchmark for Collins in the KC game but the stats and not the two scores the benchmark for Campbell in the Giants game???? It's impossible to take anyone seriously who has double standards and changes them to fit their agenda.

Because context is everything. It took Candle multiple tries last night to have a good drive. Collins did it in one.

And in the end Candle had 1 TD and two INTs. That's going BACKWARDS in most people's book.

And if you watched the game, Collins clearly outplayed Candle, even if you didn't know the stats.

Seriously, are you trying to argue that JC outplayed Collins last night?

[RocketCitySkins]

Because context is everything. It took Candle multiple tries last night to have a good drive. Collins did it in one.

And in the end Candle had 1 TD and two INTs. That's going BACKWARDS in most people's book.

And if you watched the game, Collins clearly outplayed Candle, even if you didn't know the stats.

Seriously, are you trying to argue that JC outplayed Collins last night?

I don't think 4 plays are enough to base an assumption for the entire game. It's a weak argument to say the least.

And I didn't concede earlier. I work 3rd and I went to sleep. And I'm not conceding now, I'm going to work.

[morpheusmeyers]

When Collins entered the game near the end of the 1st half we had a total of one 1st down. Collins immediately tossed a perfect bomb to Moss and followed it up with a great deep pass that Davis couldn't hang on to. He showed more on those couple of passes than Campbell had in nearly two quarters.

Campbell played bad and Collins showed something in his limited time. Maybe we should have played Collins in the 2nd half. We might have only gotten beat 41-19.

[HailGreen28]

Campbell is a below average quarterback. At times I have argued that he is terrible.

But he shouldn't be called Candle.

And use of the term detracts from the posters argument. It does not advance the argument.

Hang on that crutch if you want to. I'll be happy if we start Collins the next two games, and see if he can be a better placeholder than THE 5 YEAR FAILURE THAT SNUFFS OUT UNDER PRESSURE, for the Redskins' sake.

You could not be more obtuse. You use QB rating to support that TC outplayed JC in the Giants game, completley ignoring JC's drives that led to scores...

Then use TC drive for scores to to support that TC outplayed JC in the KC game completley ignoring QB rating...

I dont think it can get more rediculous than that.

Well then we could say this correct?

In the NYG game, Campbell had worse stats, but led scoring drives that Collins couldn't. That is the true barometer I think you have to go by as a Skins fan.

Now you're being obtuse. Collins really did outplay Candle in KC. I thought in spite of the stats (which happens from time to time, Big Ben sometimes leads his team to victory despite terrible stats. And turns out I was wrong about the stats. Collins had the better rating in KC. 60.1 to 46.1.

And in both the KC and Gnats games, it was a stagnant offense under Candle, then Collins came in and the offense picked up.

But no you want to argue things as if you didn't watch either game. like this gem:

In the NYG game, Campbell had worse stats, but led scoring drives that Collins couldn't. That is the true barometer I think you have to go by as a Skins fan

I shouldn't have to tell you we didn't catch fire offensively till Collins came in. That the one time Collins was in we had a chance to score, as opposed to most of Candle's drives. Making your statement totally false and a simple matter of childish semantics. Like saying "we almost matched NY scoring in the 3rd quarter so we could have played to nearly a tie that game" But as long as you're more interested in parroting statements clueslessly, the facts elude you.

[Springfield]

So you guys think Collins could perform behind this line for an entire game? For an entire season?

Stop joking around and get real. Collins had one good pass and then stalled the drive.

[HailGreen28]

I don't think 4 plays are enough to base an assumption for the entire game. It's a weak argument to say the least.

And I didn't concede earlier. I work 3rd and I went to sleep. And I'm not conceding now, I'm going to work.

You conceeded when you kept posting while refusing to answer my points and Shilsu's points. That's makes you dishonest, or something like this guy.

And again, a Candle-lover tries to make a cute statement totally out of context. Anybody who didn't watch the game would agree with your cute statement: "I don't think 4 plays are enough to base an assumption on".

While anybody who saw the game would know THAT'S ALL THE PLAYS THAT COLLINS HAD that game! :doh: That's all we have to go on last night. And in that one drive, Collins clearly outplayed Candle. But your statement conveniently omits that. That's dishonest tactics at best, and blind stupidity at worst.

[Springfield]

And in both the KC and Gnats games, it was a stagnant offense under Candle, then Collins came in and the offense picked up.

Really? You believe this?

How many TD's were scored under Collins watch in both the KC game and the Giants game combined?

[HailGreen28]

Really? You believe this?

How many TD's were scored under Collins watch in both the KC game and the Giants game combined?

I said how many POINTS were the result of Collins in KC? Care to answer my actual point?

[morpheusmeyers]

Hang on that crutch if you want to. I'll be happy if we start Collins the next two games, and see if he can be a better placeholder than THE 5 YEAR FAILURE THAT SNUFFS OUT UNDER PRESSURE, for the Redskins' sake.

You do realize that a poster can be both anti Campbell and be against the use of the term Candle, don't you?

[mnb123]

Collins stretched the field more in his one drive than Campbell had the whole game.

I don't understand how that is debatable.

[RocketCitySkins]

You conceeded when you kept posting while refusing to answer my points and Shilsu's points. That's makes you dishonest, or something like this guy.

I'm dishonest. Show where I kept posting. I didn't make one more post between the one where I showed TC's 2009 stats, post 327 and post 377.

So you are still saying that in a game where TC played the same amount of time as JC, one half, that the benchmark is the score. But in a game where he only played 4 plays the benchmark is the stats. Still a totally different concept that fits your context. Half a game and the same amount of time it's score, not stats that count. And I'm really gone this time before I'm late.

[HailGreen28]

You do realize that a poster can be both anti Campbell and be against the use of the term Candle, don't you?

You do realize that I'm debating that Candle should be our placeholder or RFA trade-bait. Not debating other peoples special feelings that apply to Candle and not other players. Right?

[morpheusmeyers]

I said how many POINTS were the result of Collins in KC? Care to answer my actual point?

Collins 6. Campbell 0.

Neither did much of anything.

D > D-, though.

[Newera]

Well said! For all the JC fans ... they got to see in real time the comparisions between a decent QB and a BAD one. 40 year old over the hill noodle armed Todd Collins showed Jason how it's done.

Wish the Skins have the courage to play Todd against the Cowturds.

That's an edict that should come down from Snyder. Ala what the guy in Tenn said to Fisher about starting Vince Young.

We have enough tape on Jason thus far. Letting Collins finish out the year could determine who to keep next year. Personally, I would let Jason move forward. It probably would be in his best interest -- and try and get a pick for him -- second or third rounder.

There is no question that Collins could do as well if not better then Jason statistically. Continue to develop Colt -- and sign a kid in this draft -- and rebuild the offensive line.

That's what I think Shanahan will probably do. My hunch.

The problem in the Giants game was that the offense did not sustain drives to match what the Giants did to our defense. You can't let the Giants take almost nine minutes off the clock and then promptly go 1,2,3 and out.

Then let the Giants go on another long drive -- and then go 1,2,3, and out again. Shanahan (if he gets the job) is going to blow this team up.

[Ghost of]

You do realize that a poster can be both anti Campbell and be against the use of the term Candle, don't you?

When people referred to "Scott" Brunell, I didn't see anything remotely resembling this level of complaining. Neither of the terms was invented by posters on the board, they were in mass media outlets (one on a broadcast, the other on a commercial.) Two, people who are tired of the Campbell brigade may continue using the term as an irritant, especially when Jason is given undue credit for being "classy" when the facts demonstrate that he's a good kid but far from the "classy" individual he's been portrayed as. His followers pick up on those darker threads and live them out in this forum: Assigning blame to others, not taking responsibility for his own play, insinuating racial animus drives the criticism, attacking people for being ignorant of football, etc. He's clearly a shining example to them, and thus calling him Candle, perhaps he's an inspirational "candle in the window" on a cold, dark, lonely night for the Campbell supporters. It could be a positive.

[HailGreen28]

I'm dishonest. Show where I kept posting. I didn't make one more post between the one where I showed TC's 2009 stats, post 327 and post 377.

So you are still saying that in a game where TC played the same amount of time as JC, one half, that the benchmark is the score. But in a game where he only played 4 plays the benchmark is the stats. Still a totally different concept that fits your context. Half a game and the same amount of time it's score, not stats that count. And I'm really gone this time before I'm late.

You tried switching the argument, rather than respond to Shilsu's and my posts. To the point of literally stonewalling with the ignore list on Shilsu mid debate.

Collins outplayed Candle in KC by whatever metric you care to use. Including stats. Last night, if you don't see that Collins made plays that Candle couldn't on the one drive that led to the Gnats 20..... if the stats don't help convince you there...... you are being dishonest or stupid.

[HailGreen28]

Collins 6. Campbell 0.

Neither did much of anything.

D > D-, though.

I'd argue D vs F, but that means about as much. You got one QB who did a little vs nothing. And to be fair, counting the safety it's more like 4 -0. Between the two, since Colt and Chase apparently haven't worked out yet we have no one else, you take Collins.

[morpheusmeyers]

He's clearly a shining example to them, and thus calling him Candle, perhaps he's an inspirational "candle in the window" on a cold, dark, lonely night for the Campbell supporters. It could be a positive.

The term "Scott" Brunell wasn't an insult against Brunell. If it was a knock on anyone it was Stockton. Boo-nell, on the other hand...

I have been anti Campbell since 2007. I'm just not down with posters using terms like "Simple Jason" and "Candle" every time they mention Campbell. The terms do nothing to further the posters argument. If anything they detract from the argument by showing that the poster has to resort to name calling.

Never considered your viewpoint. A shining example indeed, ha ha.

[Ghost of]

Is it even really fair to say Collins was a D, though? It was one series, right? He did a fairly decent job and had a TD go through Davis' hands. That was on one drive. I think you have to give him a passing satisfactory (D being UNsatisfactory passing) grade--C, maybe?

What he did not do was respond with 3 and outs, get pick sixed and basically look utterly incompetent. And while he got hit and pressured, interesting that he could complete (or almost) downfield passes when Jason doesn't even ATTEMPT them.

[HailGreen28]

Is it even really fair to say Collins was a D, though? It was one series, right? He did a fairly decent job and had a TD go through Davis' hands. That was on one drive. I think you have to give him a passing satisfactory (D being UNsatisfactory passing) grade--C, maybe?

What he did not do was respond with 3 and outs, get pick sixed and basically look utterly incompetent. And while he got hit and pressured, interesting that he could complete (or almost) downfield passes when Jason doesn't even ATTEMPT them.

I was talking giving Collins a D and Candle an F for the KC game. Sorry if I was unclear.

[morpheusmeyers]

Is it even really fair to say Collins was a D, though? It was one series, right?

I was referencing the KC game, not last nights game.

Collins gets an I, incomplete, for last nights performance.

[Springfield]

I said how many POINTS were the result of Collins in KC? Care to answer my actual point?

6 points on offense. It's arguable that any of those were the result of Collins though.

In case you forgot, Collins was just as ineffective against KC. That's why we chose to keep Campbell in as our starting QB. Collins flat out sucked against KC.

If you think that Collins would perform better than Campbell over the long term, you're as bad as the Brennan supporters.

[HailGreen28]

I was referencing the KC game, not last nights game.

Collins gets an I, incomplete, for last nights performance.

Normally when a student does well, but is taken out quickly due to circumstances beyond his control, the class is dropped. Maybe incomplete as in dropped, but I hope you aren't suggesting incomplete like a "no credit".

Meantime Candle deserves a D- at best for his 1 TD 2 INT low-rating mostly stalling performance last night.