Mike Mayock on Jason Campbell

[NewCliche21]

His comp percentage is directly correlated with his cautious play. This debate is over if you honestly think he's been accurate throughout his career here.. He hasn't been, if you've watched him that would be evident

-you can't discount exp gained through those games in which he played but wasn't injured at the some point.. Sure it didn't allow him to reach 20 tds but he eqsnt exactly lighting it up in 2006 or 2007 if you remember

Dude, this is why people are having a tough time taking the anti-Campbell guys seriously.

You say that he's inaccurate.

Another poster points out that he's accurate.

Then you have to QUALIFY his accuracy?

Another anti-Campbell poster says that Campbell sucks in the red zone.

That poster gets owned by pointing out that Campbell is on fire in the red zone.

The anti-Campbell poster doesn't man up to it.

[Mooka]

Dude, this is why people are having a tough time taking the anti-Campbell guys seriously.

You say that he's inaccurate.

Another poster points out that he's accurate.

Then you have to QUALIFY his accuracy?

Completion % is not accuracy. Its one factor.

Jason throws short, on average, more then any QB in the league.

[NewCliche21]

Completion % is not accuracy. Its one factor.

Jason throws short, on average, more then any QB in the league.

Seriously? Completion percentage is not the end-all be-all statistic for accuracy? It's just one factor?

What are the other factors?

[Mahons21]

Dude, this is why people are having a tough time taking the anti-Campbell guys seriously.

You say that he's inaccurate.

Another poster points out that he's accurate.

Then you have to QUALIFY his accuracy?

Another anti-Campbell poster says that Campbell sucks in the red zone.

That poster gets owned by pointing out that Campbell is on fire in the red zone.

The anti-Campbell poster doesn't man up to it.

-another person used statistics which matter nothing when not put into context, I wasn't qualifying anything just adding context to the statistic, the fact the he had the 2nd lowest avg yds through the air last season tends to support my view.

-ive "manned up" everytime I think jc plays well or does something well, don't generalize me, or I will do the same to you.. Argue the points I make, not the one's posters you think I would agree make..

[Passizle]

-another person used statistics which matter nothing when not put into context, I wasn't qualifying anything just adding context to the statistic, the fact the he had the 2nd lowest avg yds through the air last season tends to support my view.

-ive "manned up" everytime I think jc plays well or does something well, don't generalize me, or I will do the same to you.. Argue the points I make, not the one's posters you think I would agree make..

There lies the problem. I think we are talking bout this season...

[wdcredskins]

Completion % is not accuracy. Its one factor.

Jason throws short, on average, more then any QB in the league.

and because 90% are short and usually receivers wide open, his % is what it is. when he has to throw mid range and especially long passes, he is one of the most inaccurate passer in the league since he has been starting.

he takes safe passes and makes comps when the receivers are usually wide open. you have to sit and analyze his completions. u dont just state the stats and dont analyze them which is what campbell homers do.

with that said, for the pass 2 games, he has made accurate mid to long passes. but again, it goes back to consistency. 2 out 50 games aint what you call consistency. homers might argue that he has had more than 2 games where he had a good game. i would say the saints game last yr. so add another 2 or 3 gaames of good performance. that is 5 out of 50. only conisstency he has is having mediocre to bad games than anything else.

like somebody said, u take his massiv ebody of work, then analyze it. then you can come to a certain conclusion. this method applies to just about everything.

[NewCliche21]

-another person used statistics which matter nothing when not put into context, I wasn't qualifying anything just adding context to the statistic, the fact the he had the 2nd lowest avg yds through the air last season tends to support my view.

-ive "manned up" everytime I think jc plays well or does something well, don't generalize me, or I will do the same to you.. Argue the points I make, not the one's posters you think I would agree make..

1) So we have to put into context every single statistic? Let's take into account the line, playcalling, routes, etc. then. You can't cherry pick if you want to play the context card.

2) I made it blatantly clear that I wasn't referring to you when I said "Another poster . . ." Another being not you. You're definitely not in that group that I talked about.

[NewCliche21]

and because 90% are short and usually receivers wide open, his % is what it is. when he has to throw mid range and especially long passes, he is one of the most inaccurate passer in the league since he has been starting.

he takes safe passes and makes comps when the receivers are usually wide open. you have to sit and analyze his completions. u dont just state the stats and dont analyze them which is what campbell homers do.

with that said, for the pass 2 games, he has made accurate mid to long passes. but again, it goes back to consistency. 2 out 50 games aint what you call consistency. homers might argue that he has had more than 2 games where he had a good game. i would say the saints game last yr. so add another 2 or 3 gaames of good performance. that is 5 out of 50. only conisstency he has is having mediocre to bad games than anything else.

like somebody said, u take his massiv ebody of work, then analyze it. then you can come to a certain conclusion. this method applies to just about everything.

Dude, you've been making some pretty good posts lately. I might disagree, and you still might have a little tinge of being brusque, but I'm now enjoying your posts. to that.

Anyway, I think that people are looking at Campbell now until the end of the year. He's playing well, so we're focusing on that. Is it because we've got nothing else going for us? Sure, that definitely has some role in it. Let's see if his consistency gets better.

His consistency, by the way, is his most frustrating aspect. It's almost like, "Be good or suck, dude." He's playing well now, but looking at his body of work, it's hard to think of it as indicative of the future rather than just an anomoly. I'm very interested in the next three games to see how he performs. I feel like we an make a more accurate judgment at the end of the season.

[RocketCitySkins]

and because 90% are short and usually receivers wide open, his % is what it is. when he has to throw mid range and especially long passes, he is one of the most inaccurate passer in the league since he has been starting.

He is 12th in the league for pass plays over 25 yards. A definite improvement this year.

[Mahons21]

There lies the problem. I think we are talking bout this season...

-who's this "we?" I was discussing jason campbells CAREER with a different poster, to point out how that assertions made this offseason were in my opinion correct.

-thanks for your profound input once again

[Passizle]

-who's this "we?" I was discussing jason campbells CAREER with a different poster, to point out how that assertions made this offseason were in my opinion correct.

-thanks for your profound input once again

-Thanks for being civil. You have a talent at that...

-The "we" is the JC supporters. Granted... I came into a conversation without all the info. my profound apologies...

That being said, you are using last years statistics to attempt to debunk stats from this year... am I incorrect?

[Mahons21]

1) So we have to put into context every single statistic? Let's take into account the line, playcalling, routes, etc. then. You can't cherry pick if you want to play the context card.

2) I made it blatantly clear that I wasn't referring to you when I said "Another poster . . ." Another being not you. You're definitely not in that group that I talked about.

1.) I've taken it all into acct, and debated it ad nauseum so I didn't want to get too in depth again.. Funny you call me a cherry picker yet back two posters who use a single statistic without any context..

2.). You quoted me and said this is why people can't take YOU anti-campbell posters seriously.. I may have misinterpreted but considering the context it doesn't seem likely

[Mooka]

Seriously? Completion percentage is not the end-all be-all statistic for accuracy? It's just one factor?

What are the other factors?

Plenty. Offense they run, mechanics, depth of throws, WR's, etc.

I would not consider McNabb or Tony Romo sits to pee accurate QBs, they are more playmaking QBs. McNabb has a very high % on the deepest throws, but mostly because he can extend the play long enough for a WR to spring free. I'd put Ben Roethlisberger in the same catagory, though he can extend the play staying inside the pocket.

I would consider Drew Brees and Tom Brady to be very accurate QBs, but not on the same level of accuracy of Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner. Bree's ability is to play "blind" so to speak, or see the play before it develops which always puts the defense at a disadvantage is what gives him his superior accuracy. Probably something he developed by being a short pocket QB.

I would consider Kyle Orton a very accurate QB at the short level, but average accuracy at the intermediate level and highly inaccurate at longer range due to his arm strength.

Brett Favre and Jay Cutler have the rare trait of accuracy combined with arm strength. Their heads just get into the way sometimes trying to fit the ball into ridiculously tight spots.

Phillip Rivers has the rare trait of accuracy and play-making ability. Kind of strange with his throwing motion.

Matt Schuab is very accurate all around and actually his completion % isn't as inflated as one would think throwing to targets like Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels.

I would not consider Joe Flacco an accurate QB at all despite what any statistic says. That maybe something to do with his receiving targets.

I'd put Campbell as an accurate QB all around at every level but not in the top 10 like his completion % says. He can throw the deep ball with accuracy, but miss fires too often to be considered great in the category. His short throws are accurate, but he's lacked some touch and putting the ball to spots in the past. In the past he's had problems with touch throws. His arm strength gives him excellent accuracy at the intermediate level being able to throw a strike 20 yards down the field with good placement.

[Mahons21]

-Thanks for being civil. You have a talent at that...

-The "we" is the JC supporters. Granted... I came into a conversation without all the info. my profound apologies...

That being said, you are using last years statistics to attempt to debunk stats from this year... am I incorrect?

-sorry when people make an unnecesary and incorrect snyde remark I don't respond civily, maybe I should work on that.

-well "we" me and the poster I was debating, who also happens to support campbell were not talking about this season solelym

-no, and I'm not taking the time to explain go back and read

[NewCliche21]

1.) I've taken it all into acct, and debated it ad nauseum so I didn't want to get too in depth again.. Funny you call me a cherry picker yet back two posters who use a single statistic without any context..

2.). You quoted me and said this is why people can't take YOU anti-campbell posters seriously.. I may have misinterpreted but considering the context it doesn't seem likely

1) I'm saying that accuracy is accuracy. You ARE cherry-picking. I'm not bringing in any of those other factors to the discussion.

2) I'm being civil and you're questioning that. Stop being paranoid.

Plenty. Offense they run, mechanics, depth of throws, WR's, etc.

I would not consider McNabb or Tony Romo sits to pee accurate QBs, they are more playmaking QBs. McNabb has a very high % on the deepest throws, but mostly because he can extend the play long enough for a WR to spring free. I'd put Ben Roethlisberger in the same catagory, though he can extend the play staying inside the pocket.

I would consider Drew Brees and Tom Brady to be very accurate QBs, but not on the same level of accuracy of Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner. Bree's ability is to play "blind" so to speak, or see the play before it develops which always puts the defense at a disadvantage is what gives him his superior accuracy. Probably something he developed by being a short pocket QB.

I would consider Kyle Orton a very accurate QB at the short level, but average accuracy at the intermediate level and highly inaccurate at longer range due to his arm strength.

Brett Favre and Jay Cutler have the rare trait of accuracy combined with arm strength. Their heads just get into the way sometimes trying to fit the ball into ridiculously tight spots.

Phillip Rivers has the rare trait of accuracy and play-making ability. Kind of strange with his throwing motion.

Matt Schuab is very accurate all around and actually his completion % isn't as inflated as one would think throwing to targets like Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels.

I would not consider Joe Flacco an accurate QB at all despite what any statistic says. That maybe something to do with his receiving targets.

I'd put Campbell as an accurate QB all around at every level but not in the top 10 like his completion % says. He can throw the deep ball with accuracy, but miss fires too often to be considered great in the category. His short throws are accurate, but he's lacked some touch and putting the ball to spots in the past. In the past he's had problems with touch throws. His arm strength gives him excellent accuracy at the intermediate level being able to throw a strike 20 yards down the field with good placement.

Now this is a real argument!

What you guys are saying, though, is subjective. A completed pass is a completed pass, and that makes him accurate. If you want to break it down by distance, that's fine, but his overall completion percentage is what's important when determining overall accuracy.

[wdcredskins]

He is 12th in the league for pass plays over 25 yards. A definite improvement this year.

oh boy. here we go again with the useless stats. with all due respect, im talking about passes in the air over 25 yards or more. again, watching all campbell's games, i ccant recall him making mid to long range passes over 25 yards in the air until recently. without a doubt that stat counts shorts passes that went for 25 or more.

again, this is what im talking about when i say, u have to analyze stats that you are presenting. u just cant post them thinking it is going to win u the argument. just comes off more amaturish than anything else.

[Passizle]

-sorry when people make an unnecesary and incorrect snyde remark I don't respond civily, maybe I should work on that.

-well "we" me and the poster I was debating, who also happens to support campbell were not talking about this season solelym

-no, and I'm not taking the time to explain go back and read

Wel... my intent was not to be "snyde". It was a serious question. I am really tired of the JC debate so I am not going to get involved any further. Have fun!

[NewCliche21]

oh boy. here we go again with the useless stats. with all due respect, im talking about passes in the air over 25 yards or more. again, watching all campbell's games, i ccant recall him making mid to long range passes over 25 yards in the air until recently. without a doubt that stat counts shorts passes that went for 25 or more.

again, this is what im talking about when i say, u have to analyze stats that you are presenting. u just cant post them thinking it is going to win u the argument. just comes off more amaturish than anything else.

Is there a stat about through the air passes?

[wdcredskins]

Is there a stat about through the air passes?

NO clue. maybe they do but again, if you have watched all redskins games, u wouldnt need to rely on stats. u know exactly what yuo saw. when he attempts mid to and especially long passes, he is horrendously off. this is not debatable. recently, i've seen him be accurate on mid to long range passes. and lets not forget the fact that he rarely goes deep to begin with.

[Mahons21]

1) I'm saying that accuracy is accuracy. You ARE cherry-picking. I'm not bringing in any of those other factors to the discussion.

2) I'm being civil and you're questioning that. Stop being paranoid.

.

1.) Stats without context are meaningless, and I'm sure you are aware of this.. So just sticking to a single stat doesn't always prove a point.. Or I could make a case that jc can't score because he only had 12 tds last season.

2.) Thanks for being civil, but you quoted me and said this is why people can't take you guys seriously.. Did I misinterpret something? If so I'm sorry

[RocketCitySkins]

Is there a stat about through the air passes?

There is and I think JC's is around 5.8 yds which is another improvement over last year. My main problem with using this stat is the system he is running doesn't favor long passes in the air. The WCO is built on short passes with supposedly a higher YAC.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

again, this is what im talking about when i say, u have to analyze stats that you are presenting. u just cant post them thinking it is going to win u the argument. just comes off more amaturish than anything else.

Maybe the REAL problem is that too many people post in an attempt to simply win the argument. More people should look at the other side of the debate and keep an open mind. You might actually find that most Skins fans agree on more than you think.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Is there a stat about through the air passes?

espn tracks how far passes travel through the air as part of the splits category.

[Mahons21]

Wel... my intent was not to be "snyde". It was a serious question. I am really tired of the JC debate so I am not going to get involved any further. Have fun!

-you didn't ask a question, you said the problem with my post was "we" are discussing campbell this year, which was untruem

[NewCliche21]

NO clue. maybe they do but again, if you have watched all redskins games, u wouldnt need to rely on stats. u know exactly what yuo saw. when he attempts mid to and especially long passes, he is horrendously off. this is not debatable. recently, i've seen him be accurate on mid to long range passes. and lets not forget the fact that he rarely goes deep to begin with.

Subjectively? Sure, he has a ridiculous tendency to overthrow the deep receiver. Remember when he didn't realize how fast Kelly was? :doh: You've gotta fix that, man.

However, he's been good lately, and that's what we have to base it on. I'll give him the next three games to keep it up against legit teams, especially the Giants on Monday. If he can do it, then great. If he can't, then peace out.

1.) Stats without context are meaningless, and I'm sure you are aware of this.. So just sticking to a single stat doesn't always prove a point.. Or I could make a case that jc can't score because he only had 12 tds last season.

2.) Thanks for being civil, but you quoted me and said this is why people can't take you guys seriously.. Did I misinterpret something? If so I'm sorry

1) Campbell did have a bad problem with scoring. That's not up for debate. He is accurate now, though. If we're going to put it into context, though, then we need to look at EVERYTHING. We can't just look at what kind of passes they were without seeing who was targeted, who else was running which routes, against which defense, off of play-action or not, etc.

2) I'm going to have to agree with myself. I've got nearly 10K posts proving that if I want to go after you, then I will. It was aimed at the anti-Campbell crew in general.