KingGibbs Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Winning is better than losing.If getting a top three pick was so important' date=' wouldn't the Lions be a very good team by now? You can have a great draft in the 8 through 14 spots.[/quote'] Not if Vinny is still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Winning is better than losing. No it's not. If your out of competition then what good is winning? This team needs to hit rock bottom. Tell me what good winning is going to do this team' date=' owner, and coaches at this point? If getting a top three pick was so important, wouldn't the Lions be a very good team by now? Depends on who you have drafting. If Vinny's still here and I'd bet my last dollar he will be here if we win out. Matt Millen and Vinny are about equal in suckiness You can have a great draft in the 8 through 14 spots. Sure can, but again that depends on who is drafting. The one way to almost guarentee Vinny leaves is if we lose every game. Winning will hurt us long term much much more then the satisfaction you and I would get if we win some of these upcoming games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml6157 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes, we do not want the first overall pick as you can never trade down from it. We want to be in the 4 through 6 range in the draft which is where you can trade down and get more picks. This means we need to have at least four wins. We need a LT in a big way and if CS comes back he can either move to RT or hold the fort for the rookie while the rookie learns at RT. We need a stud guard and center out of this draft and hold off on a QB until 2011 draft. We can play Colt and sign Vick when the Eagles cut him as a stop gap. Why would you want to trade down in the draft with what we have right now? We need a franchise QB and a C, G and T. IF we pick first we have our choice of ANYONE we want. No worrying about if so and so picks this guy or doesnt pick this guy then we can take him if he falls to us crap. We are currently picking 6th. We are picking ahead of all the teams with 2 wins. If Detroit and KC win another game we will move ahead of them because they both beat us. So that puts us at 4th behind STL, CLE and TB. The problem there is both CLE and STL will probably be looking for a QB so we really need them to win another game. I will be cheering for them like crazy when they play. If we would have lost to STL we would currently hold the #1 pick. Damn what a bummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 No it's not. If your out of competition then what good is winning? This team needs to hit rock bottom. Tell me what good winning is going to do this team, owner, and coaches at this point? Depends on who you have drafting. If Vinny's still here and I'd bet my last dollar he will be here if we win out. Matt Millen and Vinny are about equal in suckiness Sure can, but again that depends on who is drafting. The one way to almost guarentee Vinny leaves is if we lose every game. Winning will hurt us long term much much more then the satisfaction you and I would get if we win some of these upcoming games So, the issue is Vinny, not draft position. That graphic last night showed that the Steelers have hit the bullseye on every first round pick since 2003. They rarely draft in the Top 15. Bill Polian NEVER misses on his first round picks. He rarely picks in the top 20. As for winning being better than losing. I think that creating a culture of losing is dangerous. It's how you end up with the Bengals over the last 20 years or the Lions now or the 49ers for the last ten years or the Browns. You aren't going to cut all 53 players. The majority of them will be here next year. You don't want them accustomed to losing or to view losing as acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 ...so, I hope we lose to Oakland. That right there is where I say it's to far.... While I see the advantages of losing, I could never bring myself to say (or type) "I hope we lose to..." :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 im not rooting for us to lose but i wont be upset if we do. we need change, and if hitting rock bottom is what it takes im willing to take it. as much as it pains me to say, winning right now is maybe the worst thing we can possibly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 So' date=' the issue is Vinny, not draft position.[/quote']Yes absolutely. Vinny's been hanging around this team for years on the belief that he is "building a winner". It's my belief that the best way to get Vinny removed from this team is to lose and show that he is not building a winning team and that he needs to be fired. If we say win our last three games this year, who knows if Snyder will believe that we are turning the corner and that Vinny could be right and he is building the team and decide to keep him another year. I don't think there is a question that Vinny should be fired today but obviously Snyder doesn't so the way you convince him is to LOSE not win. That graphic last night showed that the Steelers have hit the bullseye on every first round pick since 2003. They rarely draft in the Top 15. The Steelers have spent thier 1sts very wisely where as we haven't because they have better people making these decisions then we do. Again the way to get the guy fired who is making bad decisions is to show the outcome of these decisions was poor. That won't happen if we win. As for winning being better than losing. I think that creating a culture of losing is dangerous. It's how you end up with the Bengals over the last 20 years or the Lions now or the 49ers for the last ten years or the Browns. I don't see much difference between those teams and ours over the past 15 years. Sure we made the playoffs 3 times but the next years we had losing records. We are in that company now because of the owner and the people he has hired. I don't think we are a winning franchise and if this "culture of losing" is not already here then I am surprised. The last time we were relevant was 18 years ago. I love those teams but it's about time we stopped pissing on today because we make too much out of yesterday You aren't going to cut all 53 players. The majority of them will be here next year. You don't want them accustomed to losing or to view losing as acceptable. Then hold someone accountable, won't happen if we get that "we won, it's not so bad" feeling again. The only way to ensure we don't fool ourselves is to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CounterTrey Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't want my team to lose per se, it just that I know they will find a way to lose the game, is just in our nature to do so. Now I laugh when watching the skins, and I am surprised when they pull out a good play - I was amazed in this past game we scored back to back TD's. But they are my lovable losers because I just knew the falcons would come back and score, and the next play laron "I don't wanna get traucked again" Landry and two hand touch Hall made sure the falcons put the game outta reach - Classic Skins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 The thing is, whatever any of us "hopes" will happen, won't have a damn thing to do with what actually "does" happen. Repeat this until it sinks in. And whichever "hope" you have, says nothing about the team/organization, at all. It says plenty about the person "hoping", however. And if you're "hoping" the team loses out, what it says ain't nothing good. No matter how pathetically one attempts to justify the position. Draft position means NOTHING. There has been a bust drafted at every slot, 1 through whatever, by "real GM's" of winning organizations, forever. And there always will be. So, again, "hoping" we lose out says NOTHING about the team, and EVERYTHING about the "hoper". Who can spin having a losers heart, anyway they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I put up a thread on this Sunday after the game fully expressing my sentiments agreeing with the first option of the OP: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=307461 Nothing more to add save for the only games I'll be seriously into a game rooting for the B&G to win the rest of the year is both Dallas games, just because it's THEM! Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khlav Kalash Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Draft position means NOTHING.There has been a bust drafted at every slot, 1 through whatever, by "real GM's" of winning organizations, forever. And there always will be. It is not the draft position, it is who is doing the drafting. The 'hope' is that if the team loses out, someone else will be doing that drafting. Emotionally, I cheer for this team every game. Logically, I want the team to lose every game for the rest of the season (well, maybe win the two Dallas games) in the faint glimmer of hope that Danny will finally wise up, fire bug-eyes and get a real GM. It is like getting a child a vaccination - you know the shot is going to hurt and the kid ain't gonna like it, but it will be beneficial in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkSkins Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I never want to lose on purpose, period. You could be dumb enough to do that, move up in the draft, and end up with someone like JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, David Carr, or Tim Couch. There are no guarantees picking earlier. I would rather see who wants to play for their jobs. If you don't produce these last games, then you will find the waiver wire. If you want to throw games, go play for Detroit. Too much negativity going on here. This isn't about the record anymore, it's about keeping your job. I'll be happy with beating the Cowpokes twice. Now go out and win us a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Losing and losing big this season is for the greater good of the franchise. That's the only way that we will see Vinny removed from the organization and Snyder giving up power to a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceDragon38 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 As long as we beat Dallas I really could give a **** else..... EDIT: I think it would mean even more beating Dallas THIS year. Sure we suck....but losing to a sucky team must hurt even more. However, that Lions lost kinda ruins that argument. GAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 For the first time in my life, I actually hope we lose out the rest of the season (except maybe Dallas :evilg:) and get the highest possible draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 They showed the Steelers #1 draft picks from the past 6-8 years or so last night. Almost every one has been a good, if not great player. And they typically pick in the late 20's, heck even early 30's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 For the first time in my life, I actually hope we lose out the rest of the season (except maybe Dallas :evilg:) and get the highest possible draft pick. it sucks man, when winning becomes a bad thing. imagine if we actually won some games, the security blanket of false hope would be draped around us yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 the security blanket of false hope would be draped around us yet again. Ah, I have one of these. It's so warm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 They showed the Steelers #1 draft picks from the past 6-8 years or so last night. Almost every one has been a good, if not great player. And they typically pick in the late 20's, heck even early 30's. Other than QB's where we keep gambling on a "hidden gem", ours have been good too. QBs taken high in the first are no sure thing but the odds are much better of getting a great one. We have lots of needs on this team. Not the least of which is O line. But no other single player can influence the success or failure of a team like QB. For the love of god, lets PLEASE get a franchise QB in here to build around while we have a chance with a high draft pick. BTW - Lets just assume we draft #3 or 4... That means our second rounder is really in the range of a low 1st. Great place to find a stud O lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Bottom line, Vinny has to be fired. Forget the fact that he has built a team with holes everywhere and no depth, he does not know how to communicate with the fans and keep the team organized and structured. To me any CEO or VP that cannot at least keep structure within any company needs to be fired. Regardless of the results. Because the results will be bad with no structure. To me that is the biggest thing that we as an organization as. Structure! With Gibbs, he held the structure together, which allowed us fans to feel safe and continue to cheer, even in the bad years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABSTRACT Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I hate when fans say stuff like this! Win as many as you can. I will never root for Washington to lose. Get over it. You have to win to lose. I didn't know Redskins fans were so fanatic. I want them to lose the rest of their games and get blown out in division games so that we can fire Vinny and get a 1-3 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Get over it. You have to win to lose. I think you meant LOSE to WIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prufRock Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Can't spin your way out of a 2, 3, or 4 win season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceviker Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 The thing with the Steelers is that they have a franchise QB. When you have a franchise QB, your draft picks are more often than not "magically" better, and your team is "magically" in the playoff hunt nearly every year. Funny how that works. Just think about the top tiered QBs in the NFL. Are any of them on a team that's not good or not fighting for playoff spot? No. You get it right at the QB position and your problems magically disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever21 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I never cheer for us to lose. With our schedule and team this year one doesn't have to cheer for it for it to actually happen anyway. Truth is we're going to lose and probably at best end up 6-10 but 4-12 is more likely. Which means a top 5 pick. So I'm trying to think positively about that pick and the possibilities a well executed draft could bring. The only scenario under which Zorn and JC stand a chance for next year is a miracle run to 10-6 and a wildcard birth. They may even need a playoff win to keep on. So no I won't ever cheer for us to lose but that doesn't mean that losing doesn't have it's benefits. A 4-12 season this year most likely means (not in any order): Zorn Fired. Vinny Fired. New QB. New Front Office. A Changed and Less Intrusive Owner. Great Draft Picks. All of those are positives for our franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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