HA1LV1CT0RY Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'll tell you right here and now, Zorn's time in DC is done barring a 12-4 playoff year...and even then its 50/50. You're insane if you think Zorn isn't undoubtedly next years HC if we go 12-4 with a playoff run... I'm not entirely against this move. I actually like it in a lot of respects. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. And I wonder how much Lewis is getting paid? Anyone heard? I'm curious myself to see how this will pan out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 DixieFlatline-thanks for posting the link to the Riggo comments. Nice to hear from Riggo. His comments made sense and were right on the money for sure. Hope Riggo continues to use other ways to keep in touch with the fans like Twitter etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 People won't care if Zorn is responsible or not if we start winning. If it happens while Zorn is the head coach then nobody will want to change anything even if deep down it's entirely Sherman Lewis' doing. It's a winning situation for Zorn in that a seasoned expert has been brought in to help Zorn do his job rather than just firing him. Let me give an example from my life to explain what I think is going on with this. Many years ago, I was on a software project. The project was being run by a guy who had never run a software project. (He was a systems engineer) My coworkers and myself were fairly green, with me probably being the most experienced. None of us have worked on a similar application. Well, we went through two iterations, thinking we knew what the client wanted. Every time we did a demo, tho, the client asked for massive changes. We couldn't figure out what was going wrong. After the second time, they brought in a senior software engineer who had worked on similar projects in the past. He pointed out all the places where we went wrong, from parts that were missing to the fact that we were talking to the wrong people for requirements. Now, were any of us fired because of this? No. It was a learning experience and we learned a lot from our mistakes. But, the company didn't let us sink the project because of our mistakes. The hired gun wasn't going to take the project over from us. He was going to help us be successful, so that we could be more successful in the future. That is what is going on here. Snyder and Vinny want Zorn to succeed. Vinny especially, because his fate could be tied to Zorn. Vinny took a wait-and-see attitude and got some amount of trust from what Zorn told him. Now that the offense is struggling hard, he wants to do what he can to keep the team from sinking before it is too late. Personally, I think Vinny should have done this in the offseason rather than 4 games into the season. There is going to be too much of a learning curve for Lewis for him to make a big impact. I wouldn't expect anything from him until the bye. It is still going to be up to Zorn to put this together. I disagree with Riggo that Zorn loses either way, because he's still going to have to coach this team. Lewis isn't going to do anything directly. No matter what he comes up with, Zorn is still going to make the calls on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Firing Zorn at the end of the season isnt going to be the answer The answer needs to come from the front office we have had had 5 head coaches coach full seasons since snyder took over the team made the play off 3 times only had 1 coach last past 3 years the answer is continuity but you need it at the head coaching level. Another answer is to start using the draft to bring in players bringing in the flavor of teh offseason every offseason disrupts chemistry and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Let me give an example from my life to explain what I think is going on with this.Many years ago, I was on a software project. The project was being run by a guy who had never run a software project. (He was a systems engineer) My coworkers and myself were fairly green, with me probably being the most experienced. None of us have worked on a similar application. Well, we went through two iterations, thinking we knew what the client wanted. Every time we did a demo, tho, the client asked for massive changes. We couldn't figure out what was going wrong. After the second time, they brought in a senior software engineer who had worked on similar projects in the past. He pointed out all the places where we went wrong, from parts that were missing to the fact that we were talking to the wrong people for requirements. Now, were any of us fired because of this? No. It was a learning experience and we learned a lot from our mistakes. But, the company didn't let us sink the project because of our mistakes. The hired gun wasn't going to take the project over from us. He was going to help us be successful, so that we could be more successful in the future. That is what is going on here. Snyder and Vinny want Zorn to succeed. Vinny especially, because his fate could be tied to Zorn. Vinny took a wait-and-see attitude and got some amount of trust from what Zorn told him. Now that the offense is struggling hard, he wants to do what he can to keep the team from sinking before it is too late. Personally, I think Vinny should have done this in the offseason rather than 4 games into the season. There is going to be too much of a learning curve for Lewis for him to make a big impact. I wouldn't expect anything from him until the bye. It is still going to be up to Zorn to put this together. I disagree with Riggo that Zorn loses either way, because he's still going to have to coach this team. Lewis isn't going to do anything directly. No matter what he comes up with, Zorn is still going to make the calls on the field. Great input Longshot. I hope this is the case... either way, it's going to be interesting to see what happens; the only thing we can do is wait and see right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icbmayday Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Good video Zorn is in trouble unless he can make the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Great input Longshot. I hope this is the case... either way, it's going to be interesting to see what happens; the only thing we can do is wait and see right now. +1...sometimes we need to take things at face value and not read too much into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 +1...sometimes we need to take things at face value and not read too much into it. That's the problem. When it comes to Snyder, people bring out the tin foil hats, molding whatever happens to what their personal view of Snyder is. The thing is, things usually aren't that complicated. I tend to take things at face value until I see signs for otherwise. Considering that up through the Detroit game that Snyder was fully behind Zorn, I can't see a sea change happening in his opinion. If anything, he'd want to give his guy as much help as possible. People want to go back to what he did with Norv and Marty, but he's shown no signs of pulling anything like that in recent years, and I doubt he will pull it with Zorn. That doesn't mean Zorn's job is safe, but I think Snyder and Vinny want Zorn to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevilhimself Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 +1...sometimes we need to take things at face value and not read too much into it. +1 I think there are too many "experts" and people who can see into the future to make any sense of this right now . I have a feeling this is a move to try and make what we have now work rather than make way for the new guy . Zorn is Vinnys guy and we all know Vinny is not going anywhere ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 The team is not well prepared and that's the coaches fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Interesting video, Riggo is right on target and as he said I'm not sold on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Zorn was hired to get the best out of Campbell and implement the WCO. He hasn't succeeded. Zorn is failing miserably. I can't see why the organization should be criticized for making changes and paving the way for a possible Zorn departure if we look bad heading into the bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I see it as a no win for Snyder. If he does something he is meddling...if he does nothing then well he did nothing. Let's suppose Zorn gets fired at the end of the season. Snyder didn't give him a chance will be the popular opinion. No continuity, knee jerk reactions, another offensive system. Let's suppose Zorn does not get fired at the end of the season...Snyder afraid to admit his own mistake. Who is the next coach going to be? The "big name" that Snyder always goes after? Or the "unknown position coach" that Snyder goes after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'll tell you right here and now, Zorn's time in DC is done barring a 12-4 playoff year...and even then its 50/50.I've learned a few things in my short time on this planet thus far, and one of them is when someone or a group of people ACT in a way that CLEARLY implies something, and in response to that action say the exact opposite of what it clearly implies, and you hear that broken record playing over and over and over from the people involved in that action about how "its not what you think"...... ....they are all lying. It is what you think. Go with your gut. I have learned with this team to never ever look deeper than the surface. In this case, it is what it is. Lewis is being hired to take some of Zorn's responsibilities, and mainly to try to maintain some level of continuity for the new HC, whether its during the season, next season, whatever. There is no CLEAR implication here, and you, in fact, DID look below the surface to draw your conclusion. Vinny is capable of lying. We know that. But that doesn't mean that he's lying every time he opens his mouth. The purpose of hiring Lewis might be nothing more than what was stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaught76 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I am guessing the Redskins have never heard the old saying about there being too many cooks in the kitchen. There are also too many egos and personalities trying to define who this team is. When this happens, a team takes on the personality of its owner instead its head coach; which is inconsistent and unorthodox. Gibbs tried to establish this in his tenure, but failed in his own endeavor because of staffing miscues (Al Saunders, for example) and untraditional FO practices. I like Jim Zorn, but the team does not reflect Jim Zorn. Until he puts his foot down and gives this team a true identity, we will continue to witness futility week in and week out. Good luck coach. You have a lot obstacles, but I do wish you the best. Hail!:logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Good point. Lewis might look at it and say it's not the coaches, the scheme, or the playcalling, it's just that the players aren't good enough. Agreed...which makes me think that this is Vinny's call. I think he is doign this to save his job as well. Zorn didn't pick the players, Vinny did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 There is no CLEAR implication here, and you, in fact, DID look below the surface to draw your conclusion.Vinny is capable of lying. We know that. But that doesn't mean that he's lying every time he opens his mouth. The purpose of hiring Lewis might be nothing more than what was stated. This isnt about Vinny. Its about Sherm's defensive "im not here to take anyones job", its Zorns "i didnt meet with him first, but im ok with it", its the teams "hey whatever helps us win, i dont see it as a threat to zorn why would it be?" When you have a contingent of people in automatic defense mode, all denying the same thing....chances are, they are denying it for a reason, they are IN DENIAL of what really is going to happen. This has nothing to do with football and everything to do with human behavior and social tendencies. The writing is on the wall barring a major turnaround, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 That is a very good point to make regarding this team.Things are almost always exactly what they seem. ........ sad....but true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 you know...no one is talking about the implications of all this for the current OC........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 That is what is going on here. Snyder and Vinny want Zorn to succeed. Vinny especially, because his fate could be tied to Zorn. Vinny took a wait-and-see attitude and got some amount of trust from what Zorn told him. Now that the offense is struggling hard, he wants to do what he can to keep the team from sinking before it is too late. Personally, I think Vinny should have done this in the offseason rather than 4 games into the season. There is going to be too much of a learning curve for Lewis for him to make a big impact. I wouldn't expect anything from him until the bye. Good point. Would have been a little bit "cleaner". Would seem like it was a threat to Zorn's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 There is no CLEAR implication here, and you, in fact, DID look below the surface to draw your conclusion.Vinny is capable of lying. We know that. But that doesn't mean that he's lying every time he opens his mouth. The purpose of hiring Lewis might be nothing more than what was stated. maybe...but no matter what angle one looks at it from two things are clear: - the hire is an admission that the offense is not working...big duh there - the hire implies that the FO thinks the problem lies in large part with coaching.....that is...the coaching staff can't solve the problem without outside help. and once you start down that road....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 maybe...but no matter what angle one looks at it from two things are clear:- the hire is an admission that the offense is not working...big duh there - the hire implies that the FO thinks the problem lies in large part with coaching.....that is...the coaching staff can't solve the problem without outside help. and once you start down that road....... Your first point is clear. Your second is speculation without basis. All that is required to make this move is that Dan and Vinny aren't sure that the coaching can't be improved and want to leave no stone unturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 There is nothing wrong with this team a QB change won't cure. All the maggots flitting around the carcass of the dead elephant don't mean squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 This isnt about Vinny. Its about Sherm's defensive "im not here to take anyones job", its Zorns "i didnt meet with him first, but im ok with it", its the teams "hey whatever helps us win, i dont see it as a threat to zorn why would it be?"When you have a contingent of people in automatic defense mode, all denying the same thing....chances are, they are denying it for a reason, they are IN DENIAL of what really is going to happen. This has nothing to do with football and everything to do with human behavior and social tendencies. The writing is on the wall barring a major turnaround, period. Your reasoning here escapes me. When media speculation brings up the possibility of the Lewis hiring leading to someone losing their job, and it's not true, what can the principals do other than deny it? Can you suggest how they should have handled those questions if there was no truth in the speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhodatSkinsFan? Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Maybe this has already been brought up, but Joe Bugel was brought in as a consultant in 2003 and the next year Coach Gibbs was lured back. IMO, Sherm Lewis' hiring probably spells either Mike Shanahan or Holmgren come next year since Lewis comes from the Bill Walsh coaching tree like those two do. Exactly. Sherm Lewis is our next OC. I wouldnt be surprised if Snyder is already negotiating the contract for Holmgren or Shanahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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