The Giants were NOT in prevent D on our TD drive at the end

[21forlyfe]

So wait, the argument is that JC doesn't take chances? What about the INT? JC gambled on the throw to Moss as lost, in part because Moss failed to come back to the ball.

This is a perfect illustration of why I am forced to defend a QB that I'm not crazy about. People attack him because he "doesn't take chances" and then turn around and blast him for the INT. It must be nice to be able to have your cake and eat it too.

LOL.. i know what you mean people think i am crazy about JC I am not..but people hate on him so much I have to defend him too!

[chipwhich]

(yes we were bad last year - not in talent, but in execution)

No we were bad in talent.

I mean really....less cooley, fletcher, moss, portis...maybe....what do you have.

We don't have that much talent. Talented players execute.

To imply our problem is coaching not talent is ludicrous.

Our problem every year is mediocre talent.

This thread is sad on so many levels. Trying to imply talent based on the Giants defensive scheme. Please save me.

[21Knock_U_Out]

Our offense was actually moving the ball very well through the air yesterday. The playcalling to get away from that was atrocious. Aside from two grossly stupid plays (the JC fumble/TD and ARE doing his punt return impression on the end around), our offense actually performed pretty decently against a very, very good defense. If we can turn those big plays for the other team into big plays for us, I think we win that game.

The playcalling needs to get more aggressive in a hurry. We've spent all this time focusing on the passing game and getting passing weapons for Campbell. How about we use them?

2nd this!

[TheItalianStallion]

This thread is sad on so many levels. Trying to imply talent based on the Giants defensive scheme. Please save me.

I'd ask you to point out where anyone "implied talent based on the Giants' defensive scheme," but I know you can't.

[TheItalianStallion]

No need to apologize. You were right.

Having just re-watched that entire drive.... I'm sorry... but people just don't understand football if you can't recognize that the Giants were playing a soft zone for that entire drive.

There wasn't a single play on that drive where the Giants played man-to-man. Even Randle-El's 2nd pass on that drive he hit a seam in the zone.

That's why the Redskins took a lot of underneath stuff (Moss' curl route, Randle-El's slant pass)... and why Campbell was allowed to run for 16 yards because everyone was covered deep and there was no defensive player on the screen for 10 seconds.

Even Cooley's touchdown was on a zone defense. Just because you're in a zone doesn't mean you don't pick up a guy in your zone. That ball was in the air for nearly 30 yards... that gives the defensive player a lot of time to break on the ball on a player in his zone. That's why it looked like "man coverage".... but it certainly was not.

Just because it was zone doesn't make it prevent, or "keep everything in front of you." Hell, they even sent BLITZES. And no, the completions weren't all underneath stuff.

[TheItalianStallion]

The safety #41 was a 3rd string safety and the defense knew that we had 1 timeout. Mentally, they were spent and they didn't send any pressure.

Wrong, they did send blitzes.

[skinny21]

I wouldnt call myself a JC believer but theres no doubt that he knows how to run the no huddle. I wouldnt mind seeing them run a no-huddle in the middle of a game once in awhile.

I too wouldn't mind seeing more no-huddle offense, but it also potentially leads to more time on the field for the D. I know if I were a defender and had been on the field for most of the game, seeing your offense go three and out in 30 seconds would be a real pisser.

I'd want to see it early in a game though... see how it works and wear out the defense.

[TheItalianStallion]

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091310/2009/REG1/redskins@giants/watch

Final drive starts at 2:44. Giants were still playing man to man. On the TD pass they were actually in PRESS coverage.

Your link took me to the "NFL GameDay: Redskins vs. Giants highlights" video. Which video did you intend for us to see?

[RedSunday]

I keep on hearing people say things to the effect of "JC only led us into the end zone because it was the end of the game and they rolled over for us." Hogwash. They were not in prevent. On the play before the TD, they sent a blitz, JC quickly got rid of the ball, threading the needle to ARE for a gain of 15 or so yards. On the TD, Cooley went right up the middle against a lone defender. That doesn't sound like they were trying to "keep everything in front of them" to me.

There's no denying the boneheadedness of his two turnovers and that audible, but give credit where it's due: JC made some good plays and got us in the endzone on that drive.

LOL........................oh please,Stevie Wonder could see they were in the prevent .hell they were only rushing 3 players.:doh:

[RedSunday]

Wrong, they did send blitzes.

No jr, not on the drive we scored on.

[Vooskin]

I keep on hearing people say things to the effect of "JC only led us into the end zone because it was the end of the game and they rolled over for us." Hogwash. They were not in prevent. On the play before the TD, they sent a blitz, JC quickly got rid of the ball, threading the needle to ARE for a gain of 15 or so yards. On the TD, Cooley went right up the middle against a lone defender. That doesn't sound like they were trying to "keep everything in front of them" to me.

There's no denying the boneheadedness of his two turnovers and that audible, but give credit where it's due: JC made some good plays and got us in the endzone on that drive.

Regardless if it was prevent or not.... the game was over.

The giants packed it up. It was a two score game and i think jason did take advantage of the soft coverage which the giatns werent expecting but it was too little too late. It's not when we needed it and I am positive it was partially because the game was over. We had no timeouts, again our fault.

[JaimeDeCurry]

Uh, no. Not sure about your X's and O's coach.

...

Yes, the Giants's safeties were playing Cover 2.... but cornerbacks and linebackers were dropping back into zones 15-20 yards deep and keeping everything in front of them. That's known as a variation of a soft zone (ie. prevent).

Not trying to insult your fubball acumen or anything, but if the corners were dropping back into zones 15-20 yards deep (which they were not), then they weren't playing cover two, at least not a real cover two. What you're implying is actually that they were playing a cover four. In which case, they did an awful job.

EDIT: I just rewatched again, and you're right - on two of those plays - the Giants did drop into a very soft zone, particularly the pass to Randle El to set up the TD to Cooley. The others, however, were press cover two. The TD pass is a really good example. Our WRs are being checked at the line, and #47 finds the seam between the two safeties and over the linebackers.

[Vooskin]

Campbell needs to beat up on teams the next 6 weeks so I can play with the skins on madden. Can't take Campbells inaccuracy in the game. =P

[SkinsFTW]

Just how early in the game do you mean? Our playcalling up until the interception looked like

1st qtr.

Portis run

Randel El loss for 10 yds.

Portis 3 yd run

Screen to Cooley

2nd qtr.

Portis run - no gain

Portis run - no gain

Portis run - 3 yds.

2nd qtr. 10:02 Finally starts passing

Pass - 16 yds

Pass - 13 yds.

Interception. Bonehead play.

OK, so they ran 3 pass plays in a row. The 3rd one was a bonehead INT when he could have ran for the first being 3-4 yards past the LOS anyway.

Then the next drive was a deep pass attempt where Campbell, like he did in 07 repeatedly, failed to step up into the pocket and got stripped for a TD. Wonder why Zorn didn't use these plays last year?

So after this Zorn is supposed to keep going with a passing game when Campbell is going to turn the ball over once every handful of plays?

And yes, a non attacking deep zone defense in the 4th is a prevent defense. Campbell can't be trusted to play the QB position against any other form of defense.

[SkinsFTW]

Wrong, they did send blitzes.

Link?

[JaimeDeCurry]

So after this Zorn is supposed to keep going with a passing game when Campbell is going to turn the ball over once every handful of plays?

We were averaging 12 yards per completion.

We were averaging .8 yards per rush after the very first play of the game.

Yes, you stick with the passing game.

[Skins3000]

It was quite clear the passing game was working well and protection was decent also. It is a matter of sticking to what works and making in game adjustments. Once again I think Zorn was trying to be balanced but the Giants weakness was the secondary. So any smart coach always exploit the weakness. Hell Coughlin did or should I say Gilbridt.

[SkinsFTW]

We were averaging 12 yards per completion.

We were averaging .8 yards per rush after the very first play of the game.

Yes, you stick with the passing game.

And with our defense it probably would have been a good idea to keep passing, but thats not what Zorn does. Maybe Campbell progresses so slowly because they wont let him play like other QB's get to after a single mistake. Or maybe they think he sucks, which is why I am always questioning why they start a QB that they don't trust to play the position.

Wonder why Zorn is even here.

The reason they play not to lose is because the Redskins are going to the Sb every year. We can't just develop a QB, we have to win at the same time, until the next coach comes around because the last was unsuccessful.

[SkinsFTW]

It was quite clear the passing game was working well and protection was decent also. It is a matter of sticking to what works and making in game adjustments. Once again I think Zorn was trying to be balanced but the Giants weakness was the secondary. So any smart coach always exploit the weakness. Hell Coughlin did or should I say Gilbridt.

Gibbs did the same thing Zorn is. Maybe Zorn thinks he has to run the team like Gibbs. I remember us playing the 32nd ranked pass defense then the 30th and then the 31st 3 weeks in a row a couple years ago and we lost all the games because they ran into the DL over and over scared to let Brunell or Campbell win a game.

[TheShredder]

JC should be benched!

I have been one to defend him and defend him but after watching that "DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS" attempt at QB, I know now that he should be traded now. Collins will do just fine and probably better given an entire season. Jason Campbell is a career backup and now is the time to let the more veteran backup have his shot.

[Chris0894]

from what I see JC ALWAYS does good in the hurry up offense....that alone makes me feel like most results come from the playcalling, same can be said for when Gibbs-2 was here...JC did pretty frigin good in the hurry up

although that INT that was thrown from across the LOS was pretty pathetic...the fumble however OSI came from behind and JC was looking down field when the ball was swiped, yes he waited to long to throw it but to me it looked like he had no clue a defender was behind him

[HailToTheRedskins14]

So now it is 1) bad play calling and 2) "he didn't do THAT bad".

I don't care about this and that and that and this, I'd like to win some freaking games, period.

[NewCliche21]

I would never expect a real response from you. You are not capable of it.

Yawn.

Just because you've been proven wrong in this thread over and over doesn't mean that you should resort to making insults that are even less mature than your signature.

FACT: Campbell had a great last drive that kept us in the game.

FACT: That is what this thread is about.

[SkinsFTW]

from what I see JC ALWAYS does good in the hurry up offense....that alone makes me feel like most results come from the playcalling

Or you could just admit that JC has only been in the hurry up offense in games he had already lost and the prevent defense made him look good.

Blindfolds may be cool but trying to debate anyone other than Stevie Wonder while wearing one is an exercise of pure comedy for everyone else.

[TimmySmith]

As has been mentioned already, when Campbell has the nuts to throw upfield he does alright. Sadly he does not have the nuts until the game is practically lost. The guy plays 98% of all his games in "try not to lose" mode.