Existential Question: Why do we run the west coast offense?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

We have a QB who is not suited for it.

A running back who doesn't like catching passes.

A full back who is in no way shape or form designed to play in WCO.

A line that has always been at its best as a road-grading power running team.

Two decent receivers who are not exactly built to catch slants and break tackles.

The only starters on offense really designed to play in this offense are the TE and the current starting flanker - who has four career catches.

So...why are we still trying to pound this square peg of a team into this round hole of an offense - which appears to have become the schedme after being picked out of a hat by Daniel Snyder.

To me, this question is much deeper than whether Campbell is improving or not or whether Portis is happy or not.

Why are we doing what we do?

[skins4eva]

Because we made a huge mistake and hired a guy who wasn't ready for prime time to be our head coach: Zorn, when what we should have done was keep some continuity and hire Williams. The reason we didn't hire Williams is because his first order of business would probably have been to fire Cerrato on the spot.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We hired a coach whose only experience is in that offense. So, the bigger question should be "Why did we hire Jim Zorn?"

It goes with my thoughts from last night and today...why don't we figure out what we want to be as an organization (at a level higher than head coach) and hire coaches and players who fit that mold. Then, even if you have to replace coaches and players periodically, you aren't constantly fitting square pegs into round holes.

We went from finesse to smash-mouth over and over under Snyder (Turner to Marty to Spurrier to Gibbs to Zorn). If we had an organizational identity, we'd be able to use holdover players and not always be looking for pieces that fit a new philosophy!

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Just to do it I guess

Well, this was Vinny Cerrato's first brain fart when he became the executive.

[McD5]

ABG

Anything but Gibbs.

Dan wanted something different. Would have been nice to have had a GM make that decision.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

at this point were not running a WCO. zorn would probably like to, but theres nothing west coast about calling the same stretch play 16 times per game.

[Hunter_R]

I thought the reason was that it was the system that Campbell showed some success in during college.

Brown and Williams didn't help at all.

[MattFancy]

Very good question LKB. I have no answer for you. Like you said, we don't have the offensive personnel to run the WCO. We're a grind it out, ball control type of offense.

Our main problem is that we change coaches too often and we can't get the players that the coach needs for his offense. We need to keep a coach here longer than 3 or 4 years so they can install the system and get the players for it. Otherwise, we'll never get things straight.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

at this point were not running a WCO. zorn would probably like to, but theres nothing west coast about calling the same stretch play 16 times per game.

Good point. I honestly don't know what we are running. But it seems to be built on some type of WCO philosophy.

Here is a question:

When Zorn was hired, they made a big deal about keeping Bugle and the Gibbs running game. Just adding the WCO passing game.

But couldn't that be a tip off to the defense, because there has to be subtle changes in the formation between the two.

[mi6]

Some of the more potent offenses these days are variations of the WCO or whatever offense you want to call it ...

- Indy, Colts

- N. England, Patriots

- Seattle, Seahawks

- Philly, Eagles

Are good examples of how potent the offense can be when executed properly. Remember, coaches coach -- but, players play. And, our offensive plays just don't play!

[skins4eva]

Good point. I honestly don't know what we are running. But it seems to be built on some type of WCO philosophy.

Here is a question:

When Zorn was hired' date=' they made a big deal about keeping Bugle and the Gibbs running game. Just adding the WCO passing game.

But couldn't that be a tip off to the defense, because there has to be subtle changes in the formation between the two.[/quote']

The entire offense is one big giant discombobulated mess. There's no continuity no flow, and we've had these same problems since Gibbs came back. The formations are a huge issue to me. As is the lack of motion. When Portis comes out, we pass. When we line up in the I with sellers, we run. Any simpleton can figure out what play is coming next. With that said, we also have the worst QB in the league. The combination of poor scheme and design and poor execution is deadly.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Some of the more potent offenses these days are variations of the WCO or whatever offense you want to call it ...

- Indy, Colts

- N. England, Patriots

- Seattle, Seahawks

- Philly, Eagles

Are good examples of how potent the offense can be when executed properly. Remember, coaches coach -- but, players play. And, our offensive plays just don't play!

I know it can be a good offense (though I don't think Indy and the Colts run it). But some players are better fits for different offenses.

Would you put Ben Roethlisberger in a one-two-three throw scheme?

[Goskinz0721]

The entire offense is one big giant discombobulated mess. There's no continuity no flow, and we've had these same problems since Gibbs came back. The formations are a huge issue to me. As is the lack of motion. When Portis comes out, we pass. When we line up in the I with sellers, we run. Any simpleton can figure out what play is coming next. With that said, we also have the worst QB in the league. The combination of poor scheme and design and poor execution is deadly.

I just spit out my coffee on that one! That might be the funniest comment I've read today!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Good point. I honestly don't know what we are running. But it seems to be built on some type of WCO philosophy.

Here is a question:

When Zorn was hired' date=' they made a big deal about keeping Bugle and the Gibbs running game. Just adding the WCO passing game.

But couldn't that be a tip off to the defense, because there has to be subtle changes in the formation between the two.[/quote']

Yes...and due to the lateness of hiring Zorn, that made some sense for 2008. However, we've now had two off-seasons to phase in some TRUE WCO running plays.

It's ridiculous that we still lean on Gibbs' philosophies as a crutch (no offense to Joe himself). When he retired, you either make a clean break (Zorn) or just promote Williams if you want to keep JG's offense.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I just spit out my coffee on that one! That might be the funniest comment I've read today!

Not as funny as Simple Jason :rotflmao:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Good point. I honestly don't know what we are running. But it seems to be built on some type of WCO philosophy.

Here is a question:

When Zorn was hired' date=' they made a big deal about keeping Bugle and the Gibbs running game. Just adding the WCO passing game.

But couldn't that be a tip off to the defense, because there has to be subtle changes in the formation between the two.[/quote']

it just seems at this point to be a failed experiment theyre just riding out until the seasons over. i remember hearing about the short passing game being effective, and all the YAC we'd get, and a zone blocking scheme. yet i see none of that, i see playaction passes which to my knowledge are not staples of the WCO, and i see tons of stretch running plays. i thought the WCO was 4 WR, draw plays with the defense spread out, passes to runningbacks in the flats and over the short middle (like philly does).

watch philly and watch us. ones an effective west coast offense, the other is....well, us.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I know it can be a good offense (though I don't think Indy and the Colts run it). But some players are better fits for different offenses.

Would you put Ben Roethlisberger in a one-two-three throw scheme?

big ben would have been perfect for gibbs offense.

crazy that we passed on him to get taylor (obviously im not saying we should have, just saying imagine how that would have been).

[NoCalMike]

Well this was my biggest problem with the hiring of Zorn in the first place. I don't think Zorn is an idiot or a fool like others have suggested, but he is definately a preacher of the WCO style of offense, which is fine, but the fact of the matter is Jason Campbell was drafted by Joe Gibbs, because of his strong arm and ability to drop back and sling the ball downfield, not to be part of a timing-based offense where you do a 3-step dropback and dump the ball off to a WR on a slant route.

That isn't to say it won't work out in the end.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

my 8th grade pop warner team spread the field better than Zorn's WCO.

anyone see the Bears/GB last night? not the highest scoring game ever, but the ball was in the air the whole time and the game was actually exciting to watch. JC refuses to throw the ball further than 20 yards and Zorn calls the same plays over and over.

[SnyderMustGo]

The answer is so blindingly obvious to anyone who knows Danny Snyder.

Jerry Jones was getting pub for picking up boy genius Jason Garrett from QB coach to OC. Garrett then set out an offense that broke every Cowboys single season record. Garrett was a hot coaching prospect, but Jones locked him in to be the coach-in-waiting.

Danny is obsessed with Jerry Jones. So Danny wanted to find some former QB, current QB coach to be his OC. So he looked around, and he had to fall on Zorn. So he promoted to OC even when Seattle did not want to do so.

Danny then botched the coaching search, and he thought to himself, "I'll one up Jerry and go ahead and make mine the coach right now!"

Of course, Danny is a moron. And he didn't realize the difference between a YOUNG, fresh, and hot coaching prospect like Garrett and an OLD, stale, lifetime position coach.

So he bought in Zorn as OC, not because he liked the WCO particularly, but because he was trying to copycat Jones. The WCO if anything just represented marketing point secondary to Zorn. And then he made him the head coach when any respectable person laughed at him.

That's why we have a WCO.

All around, just further proof of the moronic way Danny runs this team.

[SnyderMustGo]

In short, the reason we have a WCO is Jason Garrett.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

In short, the reason we have a WCO is Jason Garrett.

lol, not sure i buy that, but i wouldnt put it past the danny for doing something that stupid.

i do believe we hired zorn because no one else would take the job. has there ever been a time in history where someone hired a guy as the OC, then turned around and made him the HC a week later? dont think so.

[gca61087]

do you really see a west coast offense being run? i don't.

honestly, i might be completely wrong, but it seemed like the majority of our pass attempts were 5-7 step drops yesterday.

[SnyderMustGo]

lol, not sure i buy that, but i wouldnt put it past the danny for doing something that stupid.

There really is no other explanation.

Why on earth would you take a guy like Zorn who is a lifetime, stale position coach from a marginal team with no experience as OC and make him one before you even get your head coach the exact off-season following Jason Garrett's rise from QB coach to record-setting OC?

Because he was the only former QB, QB position coach available.

You KNOW Danny is obsessed with Jones. So he absolutely would want to duplicate that move.

It's obvious.

There is no reason to pick Zorn. He was not a hot coaching prospect at all. There are 100s of assistant coaches in this league. Why choose Zorn? Certainly not because he was the most qualified. Hell, even Seattle did not think he was qualified. Moreover, you don't pick Zorn because you want a WCO before you even have a head coach who may not give a **** about the WCO. So that's not why Zorn was picked.

So why Zorn? And the obvious answer is that he was a former NFL QB turned QB coach just like..... who? The hottest young prospect in the league from Danny's arch-nemesis.

It's blindingly obvious.

[boofMcboof]

We hired a coach whose only experience is in that offense. So, the bigger question should be "Why did we hire Jim Zorn?"

It goes with my thoughts from last night and today...why don't we figure out what we want to be as an organization (at a level higher than head coach) and hire coaches and players who fit that mold. Then, even if you have to replace coaches and players periodically, you aren't constantly fitting square pegs into round holes.

We went from finesse to smash-mouth over and over under Snyder (Turner to Marty to Spurrier to Gibbs to Zorn). If we had an organizational identity, we'd be able to use holdover players and not always be looking for pieces that fit a new philosophy!

It's front office 101 isn't it? Frustrating to see a team with so much history and personality shifting styles with the wind. Chicago hasn't ripped off a bunch of superbowl wins but they at least build a team that's reflective of their city and history.