CRobi21 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 This is why you have a massive disconnect about this play. Not only do you put disproportionate accountability on the wrong player, but you can't even objectively view a simple video on Youtube, nor do you really understand what a fade route is. A fade route is up and outside, hence "FADE".Now watch the video again and see which way is Calvin Johnson going while he's in the air? Up and floating to the outside. Now which way are you insinuating that Malcolm Kelly should be going? I know what a fade route is. I've stated that it wasn't a great throw by JC at all. But I'm just stating that it's the WRs job to make adjustments on the ball, although, like you said, it was a low percentage for MK to make the play. Although the bad throw, I still think it was possible for MK to make the catch, although it would have been a tough, but great catch. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THUNDERDOME Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yea it wasn't the best throw, but it would've been a lot more catchable had Kelly turned his shoulders. Both parties at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Why are we trying to force Malcolm Kelly to make ridiculous acrobatic catches and saying he should have come down with it, when the goal could have been accomplished in an easier and simpler manner by throwing a routine fade throw? No receiver regularly makes Tony Hawk-esque 270 spins reaching back while momentum carries him the other way. I seem to remember saying that it wasn't a perfect throw, but you can go back and check to see if I'm not remembering correctly. Kelly has the talent to make that catch. Should he have had to? Nah, it could've been thrown better, but he was drafted BECAUSE he can make that catch. That's all that I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 alright, we got one!here take two of these. wow. nuprin. little. yellow. different. I would but apparently you didn't leave any extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnie007 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 This is why you have a massive disconnect about this play. Not only do you put disproportionate accountability on the wrong player, but you can't even objectively view a simple video on Youtube, nor do you really understand what a fade route is. A fade route is up and outside, hence "FADE".Now watch the video again and see which way is Calvin Johnson going while he's in the air? Up and floating to the outside. Now which way are you insinuating that Malcolm Kelly should be going? Yes but a Fade route can be excuted a couple different ways. Its not ONE way as you keep insinuating. The circumstances on a given play can result in an alternate placement of the ball that is advantageous to the WR. The CB has his back to the ball and cannot make a play on a ball thrown to the WR's back shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 W/e. As long as they fix it up in practice, I don't really care. Interesting info though, onnie007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I disagree. I played in a WCO in college and we were taught that if the corner was even or on top of the WR, the QB was to throw it to the back shoulder. MK simply had to make an adjustment and catch the ball. He kept his shoulders square up field INSTEAD of locating the ball as CJ said in the video and adjusting to the pass. Okay. So how do you explain Jim Zorn's quote then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I seem to remember saying that it wasn't a perfect throw, but you can go back and check to see if I'm not remembering correctly.Kelly has the talent to make that catch. Should he have had to? Nah, it could've been thrown better, but he was drafted BECAUSE he can make that catch. That's all that I'm saying. That's my entire problem with many of the posts in this thread. Pointing fingers at the wrong place. Malcolm Kelly should've done this, Kelly should've done that. "yea kelly should have been able to reel that in" "MK should have turned his body around more..." "The main problem I see here is that Kelly did not get his hips turned before jumping for the ball." "he should have been able to make the play." "but kelly should have turned around better and from that pic he just didnt look ready for the catch." "Kelly should have made a better effort to locate and bring it in. It just seemed like he was surprised by the ball being there so soon." "Kelly needs to learn how to use his body to box-out the defender. " "If he turns his back and uses his body, than Kelly has a TD." Plus a few posts claiming the ball was thrown to the exact spot it should have been, or that it was well thrown. From the picture, I can understand why anyone would come to those conclusions. But after reading my post and watching the play on video, to continue blaming Kelly for failing to improvise on a bad throw, saying "Campbell could've done this, but Kelly should've done that"? How about Malcolm Kelly could've made the catch, but Jason Campbell should've thrown the ball better because that's what he was drafted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnie007 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I have no idea. I don't have the playbook so I don't know what rules are given for particular routes. I am speaking from general knowledge of West Coast offenses. My guess is Zorn is being harder on his veteran quarterback than his young emerging WR. MK could have made that catch. All he needs to do is watch film on this kid attacking the ball: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 How about Malcolm Kelly could've made the catch, but Jason Campbell should've thrown the ball better because that's what he was drafted for. id buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I have no idea. I don't have the playbook so I don't know what rules are given for particular routes. I am speaking from general knowledge of West Coast offenses. My guess is Zorn is being harder on his veteran quarterback than his young emerging WR. MK could have made that catch. All he needs to do is watch film on this kid attacking the ball: First couple plays in you get a fade route. Thrown to Fitz's back shoulder, he makes the adjustment and brings it in for the easy TD. Effortless. It's not that hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 First couple plays in you get a fade route. Thrown to Fitz's back shoulder, he makes the adjustment and brings it in for the easy TD.Effortless. It's not that hard to understand. Yup. So why do you have so much trouble with it? Once again Fitzgerald is floating up and away. The original post and the article contained within are about Jason Campbell's failure to throw it properly toward the back shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnie007 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 How about Malcolm Kelly could've made the catch, but Jason Campbell should've thrown the ball better because that's what he was drafted for. I can live with this because its true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yup. So why do you have so much trouble with it?Once again Fitzgerald is floating up and away. The original post and the article contained within are about Jason Campbell's failure to throw it properly toward the back shoulder. There's been about 5 other posters that share the same sentiment as me... Are they wrong too? Seems you're all by yourself in your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 There's been about 5 other posters that share the same sentiment as me...Are they wrong too? Seems you're all by yourself in your argument. Then you should read the thread a little closer. Maybe even read the article in the first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Then you should read the thread a little closer. Maybe even read the article in the first post. I've read it. I know Zorn said it was a bad throw. And I've said the same thing about 3 times in this thread. But you're so close minded about the fact there can only be ONE correct throw on a fade route, which just isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I've read it.I know Zorn said it was a bad throw. And I've said the same thing about 3 times in this thread. But you're so close minded about the fact there can only be ONE correct throw on a fade route, which just isn't true. Oh okay, so you weren't even talking about the particular play that is shown and being discussed in this thread? Because I was. No wonder we're having problems communicating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It was an extremely poorly thrown ball that was catchable.. Campbell has to take advantage of Kelly's height and throw it further outside where the defender has no chance to make a play on the ball... Kelly is only in his second year, and he was no Calvin Johnson coming out of the draft, to expect him to reel in balls like that on a regular basis is pretty unreasonable in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shemp nixon Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Throw should have been better, ball should have been caught. BLC, love the sig dude, maybe you can keep the Bill Paxton theme and next time go with Chet from Weird Science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 you know im trying not to get into it with anyone today cause campbell had a good game and you gotta go and make a stupid post. Same old, same old from you huh? Nice. but jason overthrowing and underthrowing guys is completely unacceptable. all of his long passes have been horrid 1st of all this thread is about the fade route. Yet you couldn't resist bashing JC for something else. I brought up Cutler to once again counter your negative hyperbole about JC. I've watched Cutler and Jason play in their preseason games. They both have overthrown and underthrown passes roughly 2 passes. But i doubt you would say that all Cutler long passes are horrid would you? So why say it about your QB in a thread about fade routes?:doh: Yet my post is stupid. Right. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I keep wondering if he's talking about that pass, or the pass on the two minute drill where Campbell overthrew Kelly.In any case, Campbell probably isn't used to throwing it, since Gibbs never called a fade and Zorn only called it once (and regretted the call later). I got backed up with work and wanted to post this sooner but i think Longshot is right. I think Keim/Zorn are refering to this pass: c/o Originally Posted by clarence3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant15fromNJ Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 If Kelly boxed him out for the jump ball it was 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Check out Kelly's hips in that picture. They are 180 degrees from the position of the ball. That is why that incompletion is more on Kelly than Campbell. His shoulders and arms had turned as far as they were going to go without the hips following. It's up to Kelly to locate the ball (per the video) and make the adjustments necessary to catch it. From the location of the ball vs his hands, he came damn close but turned late. I really don't believe 18-inches one side or the other is going to make a difference on a throw to a target as big as Kelly providing he is in "position" to make the catch. And his hips suggest he wasn't in position. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 If Kelly boxed him out for the jump ball it was 6. Right, which is what you see Fitz did in the youtube link posted at about 10 seconds in. It wasn't thrown all that high, and it was to the same shoulder as the pass to MK from Campbell. The difference? By the time the ball got there Fitz had already located it and had the DB boxed out with his body facing toward the ball. Not saying it was a great pass by JC, but there are also things that MK could have done better and would have made it easier for him to catch the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 This is a good comparison. Marko has his body turned and is in better position to catch the ball. Malcom's shoulders are facing the back of tthe end zone. great shot showing how a 7th rd draft picks catches with his hands and a 2nd rounders tries to catch with his body Seriously though - Kelly will only get better - I think he will become the best player on the team. Great pass by JC, I can't even fault him on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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