darrelgreenie Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/blogs/redskins-confidential/Chalk-talk-The-fade-route-56346072.html Chalk talk: The fade route By: John Keim Examiner Staff Writer 08/31/09 Save for Chase Daniel’s pass to Marko Mitchell in the end zone, the Redskins have not executed the fade pass all that well this summer. Even in practice, at least the portion open to the media, it was a 50-50 ball at best. Against New England, Jason Campbell could not connect with Malcolm Kelly on the route. Two mistakes occurred on the play: one, Kelly needed to do a better job of getting into the defensive back before making his move. He did not create much space because of his inability to do this; in college, he could get away with that, but not in the NFL. “It wasn’t as aggressive,” Redskins coach Jim Zorn said. “He just took off instead of setting the guy up.” But the throw was poor as well. Some coaches, notably Jon Gruden, will talk about throwing to a spot. Gruden, for example, wants it to be seven yards deep and three yards from the sideline. Zorn does not ask his quarterbacks to throw to a spot. “In reality, everybody gets off the line differently,” he said. “Santana moss is different than Malcolm Kelly. So you have to throw it differently. We throw to the player. What a concept. Sometimes the DB may jam the receiver so they don’t get as deep. When you’re going against a physical corner, you don’t get that even break every time.” Campbell needed to put the ball on Kelly’s back shoulder or at least throw it higher. He failed to do either. For quarterbacks, it's typically a one step and throw -- and they have to slightly dip their back shoulder to get the proper loft (on a regular throw, the shoulders stay level). :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 yea kelly should have been able to reel that in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Not a big deal... MK should have turned his body around more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I dont agree with that assessment at all. The pass was well thrown (not perfect) and catchable. The main problem I see here is that Kelly did not get his hips turned before jumping for the ball. Had he been facing forward at that moment, it most likley would have been six points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I thought Kelly's mistake was even before getting to the end zone by doing a poor job selling his intent. Even so, the ball was completely catch-able and he should have been able to make the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 pass should have been higher so he could have used his arms to reach up and grab it. but kelly should have turned around better and from that pic he just didnt look ready for the catch. hopefully they fix this because this could really help in the RZ. edit: actually, why in the hell did kelly jump? had he not he probably could have snagged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBush Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 JC could have had more touch on the pass or hold onto it for just a half second longer IMO, but Kelly should have made a better effort to locate and bring it in. It just seemed like he was surprised by the ball being there so soon. Can't leave Zorn's comment out either... “The throw was worse than the route,” Zorn said. “I wanted a better throw and I’m going to get it. … It’s most quarterbacks favorite throw, but you have to put the ball on the right spot.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I keep wondering if he's talking about that pass, or the pass on the two minute drill where Campbell overthrew Kelly. In any case, Campbell probably isn't used to throwing it, since Gibbs never called a fade and Zorn only called it once (and regretted the call later). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvkeeper19 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Not a big deal...MK should have turned his body around more... Fact. Kelly had two opportunities on fade routes, and had his body turned the wrong way both times. One throw was excellent and the other was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 JC could have had more touch on the pass or hold onto it for just a half second longer IMO, but Kelly should have made a better effort to locate and bring it in. It just seemed like he was surprised by the ball being there so soon.Can't leave Zorn's comment out either... “The throw was worse than the route,” Zorn said. “I wanted a better throw and I’m going to get it. … It’s most quarterbacks favorite throw, but you have to put the ball on the right spot.” good post, i still think its kinda a push. both could have executed better, had kelly caught it it would have been an amazing catch, but i still do think the ball should have been higher. zorn seems to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilkyDiamonds Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It seems to me that no matter what throw it is, Jason and Kelly really are not in sync. From the Pittsburgh throw to the fades. Is it too much to ask Zorn to have those 2 in particular run the route tree after each practice and before games ala Peyton "cut that meat" Manning and his #1 receivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It seems to me that no matter what throw it is, Jason and Kelly really are not in sync. From the Pittsburgh throw to the fades. Is it too much to ask Zorn to have those 2 in particular run the route tree after each practice and before games ala Peyton "cut that meat" Manning and his #1 receivers? the fade is something somewhat new because weve never had anybody to run it. but jason overthrowing and underthrowing guys is completely unacceptable. all of his long passes have been horrid and if were gonna utilize that part of our game he needs to fix this asap. not sure he will, but its just another part of our offense taken away if he cant hit guys in stride streaking down the field. and kelly and moss both had everybody beat, those are TDs both times if the ball is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lado54 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 fitzgerald,moss,plaxico,s.smith, b.marshall,bolden, they all make this play in their sleep.along with at least 25 others.this is the type of play that we have to to make and we dont but i do love the idea of actually throwing in the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vman2k6 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Campbell had no touch on that pass (big surprise). He needs to lob it up more and give the ball some hang time so Kelly can actually have a chance to make a play on the ball instead of having it hit him in the back of the shoulder pads. -Collins, Brennan, Daniel Supporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ah the fade route. A throw back to those days when you played football in the street,playground,backyard,or any other piece of open ground you could find. "Okay _____. You run towards the ______ And I'll throw it to you." An often times jump ball play. Figure these two guys should be able to work it out with some more practice. It can also be a quite the distraction if teams think that's what they'll do down there. Look forward to seeing more of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Problem is fade routes now have to be thrown to a place the reciever can come down with it, since the force-out was eliminated before last year. That's going to take a little more skill to execute a fade since you can no longer throw it to a 6'7" guy who leaps up in the corner and doesn't necessarily have to worry about his feet. That being said, Kelly needs to learn how to use his body to box-out the defender. That picture at the start of this thread.....It hits him in the shoulder pad! If he's turned around ready for it, that's a gimme-TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 but jason overthrowing and underthrowing guys is completely unacceptable. all of his long passes have been horrid and if were gonna utilize that part of our game he needs to fix this asap. not sure he will, but its just another part of our offense taken away if he cant hit guys in stride streaking down the field.and kelly and moss both had everybody beat, those are TDs both times if the ball is right. Overthrows/underthrows happen to every QB. Did you watch the Bears game? Cutler underthrew a post route to Armosahdu sp?, Collinsworth said that if that throw was on target it would have been a TD. (during the 2 minute drill before the half) For a guy who isn't bothered by Ints you sure do get bent of shape over incomplete passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Campbell had no touch on that pass (big surprise). He needs to lob it up more and give the ball some hang time so Kelly can actually have a chance to make a play on the ball instead of having it hit him in the back of the shoulder pads.-The White Guy Supporter Back of the shoulder pads? Are we looking at the same picture? It hit him in the back shoulder, exactly where it needed to. It could have had more arc on it but there is no reason for Kelly to drop that ball. You are just a hater, admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Overthrows/underthrows happen to every QB.Did you watch the Bears game? Cutler underthrew a post route to Armosahdu sp?, Collinsworth said that if that throw was on target it would have been a TD. (during the 2 minute drill before the half) For a guy who isn't bothered by Ints you sure do get bent of shape over incomplete passes. you know im trying not to get into it with anyone today cause campbell had a good game and you gotta go and make a stupid post. im not bothered by INTs if theres TDs to go with it. you should know this by now. how many TDs has cutler thrown this preseason. get back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Not a big deal...MK should have turned his body around more... Right. If he turns his back and uses his body, than Kelly has a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 ];6692539']Right. If he turns his back and uses his body' date=' than Kelly has a TD.[/quote']They will get it and that will become a go-to redzone play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 First of all, even if Malcolm Kelly caught that it wouldn't have counted. Second of all, a stillshot can be very deceiving. Watch the play again on video and you'll see that the ball is actually being thrown to his INSIDE shoulder and Malcolm Kelly had to reposition himself despite being originally on the outside and stretch back while the cornerback overruns him. It was a ****ty throw and if Malcolm Kelly caught it, that would have been a spectacular non-TD reception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBush Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 good post, i still think its kinda a push. both could have executed better, had kelly caught it it would have been an amazing catch, but i still do think the ball should have been higher. zorn seems to agree. Better route and he makes the TD, better throw and he makes the TD. At least we know that this is something that is being worked on and teams will have to worry about that when we try sneaking a draw (with CP not Betts hopefully) on 1st down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 First of all, even if Malcolm Kelly caught that it wouldn't have counted.Second of all, a stillshot can be very deceiving. Watch the play again on video and you'll see that the ball is actually being thrown to his INSIDE shoulder and Malcolm Kelly had to reposition himself despite being originally on the outside and stretch back while the cornerback overruns him. It was a ****ty throw and if Malcolm Kelly caught it, that would have been a spectacular non-TD reception. why wouldnt it have counted again? was there a penalty im forgetting about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 why wouldnt it have counted again? was there a penalty im forgetting about? Illegal shift penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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