NYT: Why Our Society is Rape Prone...

[Mooka]

Surveys of U.S. and Canadian college students, for example, find that one of three men say that if they could get away with it, they would be at least `somewhat likely' to rape a woman. Similarly, several recent surveys of high school students found 40 to 50 percent of both boys and girls agreed with statements such as `If a girl goes to a guy's apartment after a date, it's O.K. for him to force her to have sex .'

I find this very hard to believe. I would like to see these surveys.

Rape is a growing problem because of the lack of punishment:

Punishment will never be a deterrent.

Rape is a crime of impulse and serial rapists are usually punished heavily.

[Zguy28]

So rather than teach responsibility you think its better to just expect that people cannot control themselves and not allow them to make their own choices? That makes sense. This situation is no different than making people not want to steal. How many people would steal something they really wanted if they could get away with it? Its about taking something you want (in this case sex). Just because people have those thoughts does not make them bad people. The people who act on those thoughts are bad people. I know I have though before about stealing. I would never do it though not only because of the legal ramifications but also I would not want someone to steal something from me and I am a firm believer in the golden rule. This type of behavior has happened for centuries and I dont think as a society we can do anything more than increase the punishment for those who choose to act. Better parenting helps as well but we cannot force that upon people.

You totally miss my point. I'm all for teaching responsibility. If I had a "they'll do it anyway" attitude, I wouldn't be against abortion.

I do believe however that some will do it regardless of barriers in place. Hence some preventative safeguards are prudent.

[ACW]

Rape is a growing problem because of the lack of punishment:

A study made by the U.S. Department of Justice of prison releases in 1992, involving about 80 percent of the prison population, found that the average sentence for convicted rapists was 11.8 years, while the actual time served was 5.4 years. This follows the typical pattern for violent crimes in the US, where those convicted typically serve no more than half of their sentence.

And yet noniolent drug offenders get 15-life mandatory MINIMUM. :doh:

[Zguy28]

And yet noniolent drug offenders get 15-life mandatory MINIMUM. :doh:

You know I'm against drugs, but yeah, pretty messed up.

[No_Pressure]

Anti-Rape devices solve everything for grown women. Get a society of men who think that raping a women entails having your penis skewered by jagged hooks, spears, barbed spears, chemicals, etc. and you'll have a society without rape.

[mjah]

What the hell is a "rape prone" society? Hell, show me one that isnt. Come on Peggy, show us that "rape free" society.

Sorry but this whole thing is stupid. It's about people using sad issue to push an agenda. The bottom line is that humans are still animals and under the wrong conditions those base animal urges can take over. It's the same in every society.

To point at America and suggest that we are somehow more "rape prone" than anyone else is just absurd. :doh:

Ah, the righteous bliss of deliberately sticking one's head in the sand. So warm and comforting. So... simple. So sad to see in an intelligent individual.

How come those crazy agenda-pushers hate Amurrica so much, with their reality-based, data-driven, peer-reviewed studies and nonsensical some-such? Durrrrrr... :dunce:

Reading is FUNdamental. If you're going to get hung up on the notion of a "rape-free" society, then maybe you should, you know... read the study in question and learn what it means.

Here's a US Department of Justice report from way back in 1988, which demonstrates that the US rates for virtually all violent crimes including rape are OFF THE SCALE vs. virtually every other measurable country. Again, not just rape reported by the victim. Rape, period.

US Department of Justice: International Crime Rates

May I refer you to Tables 1, 4, 6, 9, and the Appendix table of the above link. Or, if you can't be bothered, here's a summary of rape per 100,000 inhabitants per year:

RAPE BY REGION

United States:

35.9

Europe average: 4.9

Canada/Aus/NZ: 12.3

COUNTRIES WITH HIGHER RATES OF RAPE THAN THE UNITED STATES

[none amongst all surveyed countries]

COUNTRIES WITH LOWER RATES OF RAPE THAN THE UNITED STATES, OFTEN BY A FULL ORDER OF MAGNITUDE

Australia

Austria

Belgium

Canada

Chile

Colombia

Denmark

Ecuador

Egypt

England

Finland

France

Germany

Greece

Hungary

Indonesia

Ireland

Italy

Japan

Luxembourg

Monaco

Netherlands

New Zealand

Norway

Philippines

Portugal

Scotland

Spain

Sweden

Switzerland

Thailand

Venezuela

That study was done 20 years ago. And anyone who thinks our American incidence of rape today is somehow no longer massive and tragic is a fool. This is a long-standing problem that has been with us for decades, and it continues today.

So. You were confidently saying something about the US being no more rape-prone than other nations, despite having done absolutely no reading on the issue and despite a mountain of readily accessible evidence proving your assertion exactly wrong. ...Evidence that you could have easily found if you relied on a search for actual knowledge instead of an uncalibrated internal compass.

"Stupid?" "Same in every society?" "Using an issue to push an agenda?" "Absurd?" By all means, please do go on.

You were saying?

[Forehead]

I notice there aren't any war-torn African nations on that list. After the USA, that's the first area I can think of where stories of rape are constantly in the news.

You know who I think has their **** together. Singapore. Man, they don't **** around when it comes to punishing people.

Murder...dead.

Rape...dead.

Drug distribution....dead.

Vandalism....out comes Mr. Fuji with the bamboo cane

And so on and so forth.

I still remember back in the 90's when they ******* American kid, Michael Fay, got busted over there for spraypainting cars. They were going to whale on his ass until Clinton stepped in and saved him. Clinton should have let it happen, and adopted that **** here.

I know some will argue that punishment is not a deterrent, and maybe not for folks who are impulsive/serial. I have to believe the specter of either being shot or having the ever-loving **** beaten out of you would be a pretty big deterrent to casual criminals though.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Singapore only has 47 drug offenses per 100,000 people, and only 4 homicides per 100,000.

[Rocky21]

Its funny (not Haha funny), but us Baptists get haranged and laughed at for strict behavior standards, and yet the same people can't seem to understand how the 3 out of 4 secular college men would likely rape a girl if they could get away with it.

Where did you get your numbers from?

[mjah]

I notice there aren't any war-torn African nations on that list. After the USA, that's the first area I can think of where stories of rape are constantly in the news.

Agreed. Very few African nations were reviewed by the DoJ in 1988, and none seemed to have full data (not a surprise). I dropped Nigeria from the list for that reason.

I imagine any reliable present-day rape statistics from places like Sudan would be astronomical vs. ours. Utterly tragic.

[Predicto]

Mjah, I'm not sure those statistics are accurate. One thing the US does far better than most other countries is accurately report crime statistics. In some societies, rape is very common and almost never reported or officially acknowledged (Japan is the most obvious example, but there are many others). In other countries, the governments flat out lie about crime stats, while on others the stats are not even kept.

Anyhow, even the more recent "official" figures have the US well below Australia and Canada, and just above the UK and France.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

[Special K]

One thing the US does far better than most other countries is accurately report crime statistics. In some societies, rape is very common and almost never reported or officially acknowledged (Japan is the most obvious example, but there are many others). In other countries, the governments flat out lie about crime stats, while on others the stats are not even kept.

Anyhow, even the more recent "official" figures have the US well below Australia and Canada, and just above the UK and France.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

I think this is a very accurate post that put things in perspective.

[Never4get#21]

Punishment will never be a deterrent.

Rape is a crime of impulse and serial rapists are usually punished heavily.

1. Punishment is the only deterrent.

2. Serial rapist make up less then 5% of the total rapists in prison.

And yet noniolent drug offenders get 15-life mandatory MINIMUM. :doh:

Thats only after several convictions and usually none of them serve 15.

I know some will argue that punishment is not a deterrent, and maybe not for folks who are impulsive/serial. I have to believe the specter of either being shot or having the ever-loving **** beaten out of you would be a pretty big deterrent to casual criminals though.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Singapore only has 47 drug offenses per 100,000 people, and only 4 homicides per 100,000.

Exactly my point. One fact that is missing from this post is that rapists are not "reformed" in prison. I think were at a 80%+ recidivism rate with sexual offenders.

The "prone to rape" statistic would change drastically with tough no nonsense laws. Castrate rapist = cant rape anymore.

[Zguy28]

Where did you get your numbers from?

My bad. I just looked at your post on the first page. Somehow I read 3 of 4 when what you posted was 1 of 3.

Must have been after reading three pages of posts. I am getting older but man...how'd I mess that up so badly?

[TheGoodBits]

Yeah our society embraces rape. Look at Ticketmaster...

[Zguy28]

Yeah our society embraces rape. Look at Ticketmaster...

Or our very own Danny Boy.

[PCS]

Hey guys. Stay on the topic at hand. I'm not a big fan of using that word as an analogy even jest.

[ACW]

Yeah our society embraces rape. Look at Ticketmaster...

:hysterical::hysterical:

Well-played :applause:

[Rocky21]

My bad. I just looked at your post on the first page. Somehow I read 3 of 4 when what you posted was 1 of 3.

Must have been after reading three pages of posts. I am getting older but man...how'd I mess that up so badly?

No problem. The 1 out of 3 was troubling enough but the 3 out of 4 would have me moving to a cave in Utah somewhere.

[mjah]

Anyhow, even the more recent "official" figures have the US well below Australia and Canada, and just above the UK and France.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

Fair enough -- there's a big disagreement between the UN numbers you posted and the Interpol/WHO numbers cited by the Justice Department. We probably can chalk it up to survey timing (unlikely), methods (likely), and each nation's reporting habits/capabilities (likely).

My point stands: Claims that the US and other nations are all the same with regard to rape incidence, or that it's just "stupid" "agenda-pushing" to point out our silent American rape epidemic, are insane. Even in the UN data we rank 9th among 65 nations for high prevalence of rape attacks per capita. In the most prosperous nation in the history of the world, that's horrible.

Considering our national population, we rank a clear FIRST on that list, and probably no lower than 3rd or 4th worldwide (China/India), for total incidents of rape within our borders. Hideous.

And in the UN data, US per-capita rape rates are more than twice that of the UK or France. Of course, Australia and Canada have more than twice the rate of rape vs. the US. The mind reels...

Interestingly, the US rate is similar between the two studies: 30-35 per 100K per year.

Rape in America: It's not just some trumped-up agenda item to be foisted upon the happy, sand-bound ostrich heads.

[Predicto]

Rape in America: It's not just some trumped-up agenda item to be foisted upon the happy, sand-bound ostrich heads.

I think it is just as bad of a problem pretty much everywhere else in the world, but the rest of the world lies about it or doesn't investigate it. You tell me that the Saudia Arabia figure listed there is accurate, or the Japan figure, or the Russia figure. We both know those figures are bull, as UN figures often are.

Rape is a huge problem and always has been. I do not think it is a particularly American problem, except to the extent that we have more overall violent crime than a few other more homogenous places.

[armstrong001]

Peggy Sanday, an anthropologist, found high incidences of rape to be associated with militarism, interpersonal violence in general, an ideology of male toughness and distant father-child relationships. Rape-free societies, on the other hand, encourage female participation in the economy and political system and male involvement in child-rearing.

The part of this that would solve much of the problem. Not enough fathers teaching their sons how to treat women. That includes those who are involved with thier children, but still treat women like scum.