Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 im sure this has been done before but i havent seen it in awhile. just thought id throw out some numbers. campbell: started 36 games in 3 years 7,242 yards 675/1130 - 60% 35 TDs, 23 INTs 80.4 rating Ramsey: started 29 games in 3 years 5,370 yards 465/836 - 56% 33 TDs, 28 INTs 74.1 rating now im under the impression that most people had seen enough of patrick ramsey after 3 years of starting and not starting. joe gibbs definitely had seen enough after 2004. my question is, why with pretty similar numbers (you can argue campbells are slighty better, completion percentage is a little higher and a few less picks) why are so many people willing to give campbell even more time? i wasnt on this board in 04 or 05, were people still clamouring for ramsey to be given another shot? and remember, ramsey had to switch offenses in 04, and frankly it was a much more drastic switch than campbell has had to endure. going from spurriers fun and gun to joe gibbs' 1984 football is a complete 180. just wanted peoples inputs comparing our last 2 first round QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt3d Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I can't put my finger on it, but something tells me you don't like Campbell much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePreciating Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 You act like 60% isn't much different than 56%. That's false. Even if our QB only threw 25 balls a game, that's one more completion each game. One more drive kept alive. One more touchdown. Look at the TD:INT ratio. That's another huge number. If anything, your post convinces me that Campbell needs at least one more shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitmandm Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 What isn't adjusted in your analysis is that Campbell's supporting crew is much better than Ramsey's. Campbell sucks. he is going to get one more shot and if he can't show that he can throw TDs and lead a team, he will be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 just wanted peoples inputs comparing our last 2 first round QBs. Yep. That's surely want you want out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Sassy Molassy Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 im sure this has been done before but i havent seen it in awhile. just thought id throw out some numbers. campbell: started 36 games in 3 years 7,242 yards 675/1130 - 60% 35 TDs, 23 INTs 80.4 rating Ramsey: started 29 games in 3 years 5,370 yards 465/836 - 56% 33 TDs, 28 INTs 74.1 rating now im under the impression that most people had seen enough of patrick ramsey after 3 years of starting and not starting. joe gibbs definitely had seen enough after 2004. my question is, why with pretty similar numbers (you can argue campbells are slighty better, completion percentage is a little higher and a few less picks) why are so many people willing to give campbell even more time? i wasnt on this board in 04 or 05, were people still clamouring for ramsey to be given another shot? and remember, ramsey had to switch offenses in 04, and frankly it was a much more drastic switch than campbell has had to endure. going from spurriers fun and gun to joe gibbs' 1984 football is a complete 180. just wanted peoples inputs comparing our last 2 first round QBs. To be fair, a lot of people felt Ramsey deserved more time as well. I think that Ramsey and Campbell are similar in-terms of amount of supporters and detractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE HAMMER'IN HOG Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 You act like 60% isn't much different than 56%. That's false. Even if our QB only threw 25 balls a game, that's one more completion each game. One more drive kept alive. One more touchdown.Look at the TD:INT ratio. That's another huge number. If anything, your post convinces me that Campbell needs at least one more shot. So you devised that that extra completion a game was a drive sustaining throw leading to a TD, and not 1 more WR screen for no gain? Talk about a QB having no pass protection Ramsey was the epitome of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 BLC, answer me why on Oct. 3rd you said Campbell should be or considered for the Pro Bowl. Have a change of heart? Will you have a change of heart if JC nails next year? Seems to me you don't really have a mind that thinks on a plan, but what you see today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 We need to trade him and bring in someone else to lead the team next year. Jason's value is the highest its going to be right now. Its time that we realize that with or without Jason were not doing much this upcoming season because our line regardless of what Zorn says needs to be completely rebuilt and we can't do that in one year. We can trade Jason now, or watch him leave for nothing next year. My choice is to part company sooner while some teams still think he's got skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyro281 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My input: Campbell>Ramsey. How much of that has to do with Spurrier killing Ramsey while he was coach (and most of us remember THAT thread), but I think Campbell is more poised and has the stronger arm. Plus, he's got better scrambling ability (notice that you didn't post running yards, as Campbell has converted a few 3rd and longs with his running). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkbone Jackson Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 What those stats don't show is that Ramsey had no mobility whatsoever and held on to the ball even longer than Campbell. The dude was shell shocked and spent most of his time getting crushed to the ground. This thread demonstrates nothing except that you don't like Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 BLC, answer me why on Oct. 3rd you said Campbell should be or considered for the Pro Bowl.Have a change of heart? Will you have a change of heart if JC nails next year? Seems to me you don't really have a mind that thinks on a plan, but what you see today. i answered you in my other thread, youve got the day wrong, and i said he deserved consideration, as well as 5 other skins i think. its pretty sad youre hinging so much on a post i made in a "predit the skins probowlers" on september 30th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yep. That's surely want you want out of this. actually it was because i wasnt following the skins as closely during spurriers time so i wanted to know if there was as much of a back and forth about who should be QB like there is now. but yes, my mind is made up on campbell, just trying to see if history is repeating itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Just curious, not that I've gone and done the research myself already. But I am curious how QBs like Drew Brees and Eli Manning compare in their first three years. I don't believe Campbell is, and ever will be, a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning like QB. But on the other hand I don't believe he is destined to be a player that is incapable of taking this team to the next echelon with the right talent around him and to be in a system he is comfortable with (impossible after one year, again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 What those stats don't show is that Ramsey had no mobility whatsoever and held on to the ball even longer than Campbell. The dude was shell shocked and spent most of his time getting crushed to the ground. This thread demonstrates nothing except that you don't like Campbell. here are the sacks numbers campbell has been sacked 66 times in 36 starts. ramsey was sacked 71 times in 29 starts. but again, this is back to the "is it the QB or the line" because many claim campbell gets sacked not because he holds on to the ball, but because our line is terrible. what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 This is pathetic. I can't stand this place. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 actually i was in favor of keeping Ramsey as the starter in 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I polled this forum after Ramsey was traded to the Jets. Two out of three ES members thought that Patrick had never been fairly tested as a Redskin. I don't want the same thing to happen to Jason. I gave him a C grade for the 2008 season. I think he played as well as Matt Cassel and should get better next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 actually i was in favor of keeping Ramsey as the starter in 2005. So was I, and I think Brunell proved us right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 I polled this forum after Ramsey was traded to the Jets. Two out of three ES members thought that Patrick had never been fairly tested as a Redskin.I don't want the same thing to happen to Jason. I gave him a C grade for the 2008 season. I think he played as well as Matt Cassel and should get better next year. so 2/3 members didnt think a 3 year starting, 29 game starting, 4 years with this team was enough of a window. this is what i fear with campbell, when is enough enough to judge a QBs abilities? i sometimes feel like people think we need 10 years to evaluate a guy because the excuses start to pile up. ramsey never amounted to anything, hes the 3rd stringer for denver so obviously multiple NFL head coaches agreed he wasnt worth anything. i wonder if campbell is headed in the same direction. or if year 4 is his breakout season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkbone Jackson Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 here are the sacks numberscampbell has been sacked 66 times in 36 starts. ramsey was sacked 71 times in 29 starts. but again, this is back to the "is it the QB or the line" because many claim campbell gets sacked not because he holds on to the ball, but because our line is terrible. what do you think? I think for Campbell the banged-up, aging line didn't help. In Ramsey's case, it was Spurriers crappy college offensive scheme that didn't leave anyone back to pick up blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 so 2/3 members didnt think a 3 year starting, 29 game starting, 4 years with this team was enough of a window. this is what i fear with campbell, when is enough enough to judge a QBs abilities? i sometimes feel like people think we need 10 years to evaluate a guy because the excuses start to pile up. Every QB circumstance is different. There isn't a well-defined number of starts. The Skins are trying to make a big investment pay some dividends. That's smart. ramsey never amounted to anything, hes the 3rd stringer for denver so obviously multiple NFL head coaches agreed he wasnt worth anything. i wonder if campbell is headed in the same direction. or if year 4 is his breakout season. Ramsey backed up Cutler, the NFL's #1 young QB, in Denver. The Jets experts on QBs thought they had a winner in Kellen Clemens and they cut Pennington. Would you care to argue that Ramsey would have done worse than Brunell? Give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Ramey didn't have Portis the majority of the time like JC when those numbers were compiled. Ramsey had a better W/L record than other QB's on the team as starter. JC has a worse W/L record than other QB's on the team since he was drafted. Bottom line is that JC has been a liability when he steps on the field. He is in a contract year so maybe he will play better for the bigger payday. I don't think that will actually make much of a difference, it probably isn't a lack of effort. He is just not an NFL caliber QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Just curious, not that I've gone and done the research myself already. But I am curious how QBs like Drew Brees and Eli Manning compare in their first three years. logic isn't allowed in these JC threads I don't believe Campbell is, and ever will be, a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning like QB. But on the other hand I don't believe he is destined to be a player that is incapable of taking this team to the next echelon with the right talent around him and to be in a system he is comfortable with (impossible after one year, again). one thing I've learned getting involved in these JC threads the past week, is no matter what is said, no matter what facts are present, people believe only what they want, and have creative and not so creative ways to ignore the truth, (on both sides). I really like the unique arguments used to find a way to rationalize ones preconceived opinion. The ones that make absolutely no attempt to be logical, or factual, are my favorites... doesn't have a football mind.... :rotflmao: these threads are nothing but an exercise in futility.... JC is the starter, and will be barring incident next season, like it or not.... that's just how it is.... and well have to wait and see how it all plays out. and that's a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 logic isn't allowed in these JC threads one thing I've learned getting involved in these JC threads the past week, is no matter what is said, no matter what facts are present, people believe only what they want, and have creative and not so creative ways to ignore the truth, (on both sides). I really like the unique arguments used to find a way to rationalize ones preconceived opinion. The ones that make absolutely no attempt to be logical, or factual, are my favorites... doesn't have a football mind.... :rotflmao: these threads are nothing but an exercise in futility.... JC is the starter, and will be barring incident next season, like it or not.... that's just how it is.... and well have to wait and see how it all plays out. and that's a fact Pretty much dead on. I think that this site makes me like this team less. The bickering and arguing and cluster**** that this place has turned into is just depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.