bubba9497 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The line protections in 07 were called by Rabach. The line protections in 08 were called by JC. You can't separate blame when it comes to sacks without including the QB in Zorn's scheme. Since reading a defense is JC's best skill, it can't be his fault for calling poor protections right?If the O-line sucks so bad, how come they are so good at run blocking? Calling the protection wasn't the problem, getting beat, or pushed back in blocking matchups were. and you do know there is a huge difference between run blocking and pass blocking,.... don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Calling the protection wasn't the problem, getting beat, or pushed back in blocking matchups were. and you do know there is a huge difference between run blocking and pass blocking,.... don't you? How do you know calling the protection wasn't the problem? How many times did defenders go unblocked even though there were more olinemen than rushers? The biggest fundamental change from Gibbs to Zorn's pass blocking scheme is JC calling the protections, yet you automatically want to give him a pass on it, because he is so good at reading defenses and nothing can ever be his fault. Getting pushed back would mean our guys are getting overpowered, which the run blocking suggests the opposite. Apparently those were self portraits that you posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsWizCubsDukes Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ramsey had those numbers which included his true rookie year and also the Spurrier experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'm sure this has been brought up already, but I'm sure the more illuminating way of comparing the two is this way: Campbell: 23 INTs in 1130 attempts (2.1%) Ramsey: 28 INTs in 826 attempts (3.3%) That's a HUGE discrepancy, clearly leaning in Campbell's favor. Campbell: 60% completion rate Ramsey: 56% completion rate Again, that's a pretty significant difference. Also, Ramsey stated 24 games, not 29...and two of those games were not really worth considering (he only played a quarter against the Bears and only threw 4 attempts against the Dolphins). The yards per attempt are pretty much even. The TD% is in Ramsey's favor. But there are other things that separate the two that can't be reflected in the stats, like pocket presence, touch and placement on long throws (Ramsey, bless his heart, had zero of both lol), mobility (89 yards, 1.9 ypc for Ramsey, 550 yards, 5.1 ypc for Campbell), etc, etc. As well as, Ramsey never came close to having an 8 game stretch like Campbell did in the first half of last year. Campbell is clearly closer to Ramsey at this point in his career than he is to Tom Brady. But that doesn't mean he IS Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Campbell is clearly closer to Ramsey at this point in his career than he is to Tom Brady. But that doesn't mean he IS Ramsey.Califan007 with the ever logical response... :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 As well as, Ramsey never came close to having an 8 game stretch like Campbell did in the first half of last year. JC finished 2006 with a 2-5 stretch. JC finished 2007 with a 1-5 stretch. JC finished 2008 with a 2-6 stretch. Good thing the NFL is all about the how you start and not how you finish. The playoffs proved that point even more this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 JC finished 2006 with a 2-5 stretch.JC finished 2007 with a 1-5 stretch. JC finished 2008 with a 2-6 stretch. Good thing the NFL is all about the how you start and not how you finish. The playoffs proved that point even more this year. Try and follow along, hard as it obviously must be for you: This thread is about comparing Campbell to Ramsey, not about comparing Campbell to the rest of the QBs in the league. Not about comparing where Campbell is now to where we want him to be. It's about whether or not Campbell and Ramsey should be comparable in their careers as starters. Do you get it yet? Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Try and follow along, hard as it obviously must be for you:This thread is about comparing Campbell to Ramsey, not about comparing Campbell to the rest of the QBs in the league. Not about comparing where Campbell is now to where we want him to be. It's about whether or not Campbell and Ramsey should be comparable in their careers as starters. Do you get it yet? Good. You're the one that doesn't get it. How can you compare JC's 8 game stretch at the beginning of 2007 without looking at any of his other stretches? Most of which are far more significant because that is the way he finished all three years he has been the starter at some point? How was I comparing JC to anyone else in the NFL? Please be specific and name a single QB other than a Redskins QB I mentioned in this thread. If you can't, there are several reading comprehension sites you can search on google if you are sophisticated enough to navigate there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 You're the one that doesn't get it. How can you compare JC's 8 game stretch at the beginning of 2007 without looking at any of his other stretches? Most of which are far more significant because that is the way he finished all three years he has been the starter at some point? Once again... This thread--and my post--dealt with whether or not there was any real difference between Campbell and Ramsey, how we saw enough of Ramsey to realize he wasn't the answer, and how maybe we've reached that point with Campbell as well since their stats were "pretty similar" (which they weren't), and why people were willing to give Campbell more time. One--one--of the things I pointed out that differentiates the two QBs is that Ramsey never had a stretch similar to the 8 games JC had at the beginning of the year. In what way would or should I bother to go into any other stretches since my point was to show a difference between the two players that the OP obviously had not considered? How was I comparing JC to anyone else in the NFL? Please be specific and name a single QB other than a Redskins QB I mentioned in this thread. If you can't, there are several reading comprehension sites you can search on google if you are sophisticated enough to navigate there. When you say "Good thing the NFL is all about the how you start and not how you finish. The playoffs proved that point even more this year.", you are talking about the ENTIRE league, not just two Redskins QBs. When you mention how the playoffs back you up, you are, in effect, comparing JC's "finishes" to how the QBs on playoff teams did...NOT to Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The only time the Redskins have not been a playoff team since JC was drafted is when JC has finished the season as starter. Assuming the Redskins are not part of "NFL playoff teams" when even mentioning JC might actually be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The only time the Redskins have not been a playoff team since JC was drafted is when JC has finished the season as starter. Assuming the Redskins are not part of "NFL playoff teams" when even mentioning JC might actually be accurate. And again, it has ZERO to do with my post or the opening post of this thread. And you just proved my last two posts about you to be correct. Thank you lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 And again, it has ZERO to do with my post or the opening post of this thread. And you just proved my last two posts about you to be correct. Thank you lol. That you need to google reading comprehension sites for yourself? If Dexter overcame it, you can too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 And, SoCalSkins, since you seem incapable of doing it, I'll do it for you: Ramsey finished 2-1 in 2002. Ramsey finished 1-6 in 2003. Ramsey finished 3-5 in 2004. See? How hard was that to do? Since I was comparing Ramsey and Campbell's stretches, and since you felt Campbell's ending stretches were more defining of his overall play, you simply compare Ramsey's ending stretches to Campbell's. Of course doing so doesn't negate my point, but at least you would have proven that you understood my point lol :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 That you need to google reading comprehension sites for yourself? If Dexter overcame it, you can too. Ah, there is it...the message board way of saying "I ain't got **** to come back at you with concerning the topic, so I'll throw out a lame insult instead"...the classics never fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ah, there is it...the message board way of saying "I ain't got **** to come back at you with concerning the topic, so I'll throw out a lame insult instead"...the classics never fail. You started with the insults. Reread your posts directed at me after you take some lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitmandm Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 :rotflmao:last time I checked 36 is less than 41/42 maybe that's not being logical in fact makes it look like you are trying to hide something or manipulate the results...so lets look at each's first 3 season playing, and their 4th highlighted from nfl.com * Brees played only 1 game in his first season, a full 16 his second Also added 2 time Super Bowl winning QB, Big Ben Roethisbeger & Patrick Ramsey for reference Jason Campbell Campbell's TD to # of passes thrown ration is less than most of the other QBs. The guy can't get it into the EZ with the same opportunities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Campbell's TD to # of passes thrown ration is less than most of the other QBs. The guy can't get it into the EZ with the same opportunities That's the main thing...some wonder if it's him, some wonder if it's his surrounding cast (no receivers over 3 feet tall lol...at least Ramsey had Coles and Gardner), some wonder if it's been the playcalling (Spurrier had Ramsey going for the end zone on every other play, it seemed)... What helps Campbell, though, is his insanely low INT percentage. Looking at the career INT percentages of the active QBs last year (minus the first-time starters): Career INT percentages, from worst to best: Derek anderson: 3.8% Ben Roethlisberger: 3.6% Tony Romo sits to pee: 3.5% Ryan Fitzpatrick: 3.4% Gus Frerotte: 3.4% Brett Favre: 3.3% Eli Manning: 3.2% Kerry Collins: 3.2% Kurt Warner: 3.2% Jake Delhomme: 3.1% Jay Cutler: 3.0% Marc Bulger: 3.0% Kyle Orton: 3.0% Peyton Manning: 2.8% Trent Edwards: 2.8% Matt Hasselbeck: 2.8% Drew Brees: 2.7% Chad Pennington: 2.6% Phillip Rivers: 2.5% Tom Brady: 2.4% Jeff Garcia: 2.3% David Garrard: 2.1% Donovan McNabb: 2.1% Jason Campbell: 2.0% And it's not because he's throwing "safe" passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 the team JC plays on is much better than the one Ramsey played on. The offense Ramsey played in was much more aggresive than the offenses and playcalling we've been seeing for the last three years as well, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The offense Ramsey played in was much more aggresive than the offenses and playcalling we've been seeing for the last three years as well, though. 2004 and aggressive offense? :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 2004 and aggressive offense? :no: 2002 and 2003? :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 between the 49-20 isnt scoring position. thats bomb or big intermediate TD passes, something i gave up on campbell long ago. campbell and eli have virtually the same sack number in the redzone, yet eli threw 27 TDs and campbell threw 18. thats a big difference. and again, sacks are not all on the oline, a lot of it has to do with campbell not being able to read blitz schemes, and holding the ball too long. this whole notion that rabach hikes the ball and the dogs are sent loose on campbell is ridiculous. he had plenty of time to complete throws and just doesnt. see the bengals game. and heres my favorite stat: campbell was sacked 16 times in the first 8 game campbell was sacked 22 times in the last 8 games now 7 of those were against the steelers in one game, and the steelers had an insane pass rush. so really, campbell was sacked 6 times more in the 2nd half than he was in the first, and 7 came in one game where we were just outmatched. the sack numbers hold no water in terms of consistent oline failure, which many of you claim for his shortcomings. Because sacks are the only thing that counts?:doh: What about hurries... pressure in your face... Lack of rythm... yeah. That has NOTHING to do with offensive line protection...:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 we played better defenses in the second half for sure. pitt and baltimore are the only teams that had insane defenses. we swept philly somehow, and split with the cowboys. the 2nd cowboys game portis was actually averaging 4.5 a carry but campbell could do nothing through the air and we ended up having to throw. cant run all game. NY is just a better overall team than we are, and campbell couldnt throw against them in week 1 with our fresh oline, or in week x with our supposed battered oline. This is rediculous. Your excuses never cease to amaze... Portis had a 4.5 carry average for one reason. He broke off one medium one for 20 yards. Without that run, Portis is averaging 3.4 ypc. And saying "we could not run all day" is just ASSANINE. We ran the ball all of 17 times. ALL DAY? Your "arguments" get weaker and weaker as the days roll on... Also, JC was sacked 3 times and pressured constantly and still performed steady with all that going on. This a classic example of Gibbs mantra that "we lost as a team". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Compare Ramsey's 1 year numbers first Campbells. Then compare the first 2 seasons, then look at those year 3 stats. A picture should start to present itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandoverLex Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Ramsey would have lead us to multiple superbowls if Gibbs didnt yank him for Brunell and his busted shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana_Fan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Compare Ramsey's 1 year numbers first Campbells. Then compare the first 2 seasons, then look at those year 3 stats. A picture should start to present itself. Campbell's lowest QB rating is higher than all 3 of Ramsey's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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