Ant15fromNJ Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 As I was watching the playoffs over these past two weekends I noticed that every team had a good Punter and Kicker. These are two postions that NEEEEDDD to be adressed this offseason we cant have Shaun Suisham make only 70% of his field goals and its not like he was kicking over 50 yards many times. I soild kicker would put more points on the board and I know football games are won with touchdowns but if it can be done it would be nice to get 3 points and could give the team confidence. And the Punting wow! Between Ryan Plackemeier and Durant Brooks both avg net punt of 36.2 has to been close near the botom of the league is stright up uggglllyyy.:doh::doh::doh: I know we need to upgrade the O and D lines but we also need a solid punter and kicker. :2cents: :logo::helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I like Plakeimeier (sp?) as our punter he was solid down the stretch...as far as kicker, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I did a post on this with charts a week or so ago. We were 28th in average punt yardage, 32nd in net punt average, 32nd in field goal percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I like Plakeimeier (sp?) as our punter he was solid down the stretch...as far as kicker, I agree. Our standards have dropped so low that Plackemeier may be considered solid by Redskins standards. Anything more than crap is solid given what we've been through. To me watching a good punter is like watching a good golfer off the tee. A good golfer's windup and stroke are consistent each time, balanced, and the ball has some real pop off the stroke. Same with a good punter. Plackemeier's mechanics are sloppy and inconsistent, so his results are sloppy and inconsistent. Aside from some inside-the-20 kicks in a couple of games, he hasn't shown much at all. Suisham has proven he doesn't have the leg needed for an NFC East kicker who must face the winter winds of FedEx Field, or Giants Stadium, or the Linc. His one saving grace was accuracy, and even that went out the window this season. Age shouldn't be a factor at these positions. The Giants used John Carney at 44 and Jeff Feagles at 42. So if need be, bring in the grandpas to compete for these slots next year. Just get some good kickers in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Our standards have dropped so low that Plackemeier may be considered solid by Redskins standards. Anything more than crap is solid given what we've been through. To me watching a good punter is like watching a good golfer off the tee. A good golfer's windup and stroke are consistent each time, balanced, and the ball has some real pop off the stroke. Same with a good punter. Plackemeier's mechanics are sloppy and inconsistent, so his results are sloppy and inconsistent. Aside from some inside-the-20 kicks in a couple of games, he hasn't shown much at all. Suisham has proven he doesn't have the leg needed for an NFC East kicker who must face the winter winds of FedEx Field, or Giants Stadium, or the Linc. His one saving grace was accuracy, and even that went out the window this season. Age shouldn't be a factor at these positions. The Giants used John Carney at 44 and Jeff Feagles at 42. So if need be, bring in the grandpas to compete for these slots next year. Just get some good kickers in here. Nfl.com brings him up at #9: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PUNTING&season=2008&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go Not sure what critera they're basing it on though. Well he's done a better job than Derek Frost/Durant Brooks, if we can find someone better at the Punter postition then let's sign him...if not let's try and fix the larger issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darc Requiem Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I was behind Suisham but after all of the misses he had in the second half of the season, the Skins have to bring in some competition. His kickoffs were much better this year but his accuracy took a nose dive. Plackemeier had one really good game. He seems to be accurate but, and I'm not exaggerating, the punter on my high school team had a better leg. Plackemeier is fine when the team punts from near mid field but if the offense punts from our own 20 or worse his lack of distance becomes readily apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Nfl.com brings him up at #9:http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PUNTING&season=2008&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go Not sure what critera they're basing it on though. That is WEIRD. Plackemeier is indeed listed at #9, but I can't for the life of me figure out how they are ranked. NONE of the categories is sorted in that list. If you sort it by average, Plackemeier's ranked 32nd (though Matt Cassell, with 1 punt, is ranked #1. All others above him have at least 20 punts.) If you sort it by net average, Plackemeier's ranked 36th. (Again, Matt Cassell, with 1 punt, is ranked #1. All others above him have at least 20 punts.) Punts inside the 20 yard line, Plackemeier's ranked 25th. In my mind he needs to work to improve to keep his job. On the plus side, he's only 24, and it seems that punters actually do get better as they age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike21 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Tupa was money in 2004 before he got injured. The position hasn't been the same since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 There's been a few threads on this, and as it's related to the kicking game I'm going to bring it up again; given the stats KDawg so eloquently and informatively put up, as always, a short while back on the kicking game, allied to the woeful punt returns; and good, if not great, kick-off returns; when do you get to the point of looking at Danny Smith in all this? NO question the personnel on the field needs upgrading, but ultimately the buck HAS to stop with the position coach when the same, repeated problems keep ocurring. There comes a time when you have to say "enough is enough", and take a deep look at the coaching staff as much as the players under them. NO ONE should escape scrutiny this off-season. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 That is WEIRD. Plackemeier is indeed listed at #9, but I can't for the life of me figure out how they are ranked. NONE of the categories is sorted in that list. If you sort it by average, Plackemeier's ranked 32nd (though Matt Cassell, with 1 punt, is ranked #1. All others above him have at least 20 punts.) If you sort it by net average, Plackemeier's ranked 36th. (Again, Matt Cassell, with 1 punt, is ranked #1. All others above him have at least 20 punts.) Punts inside the 20 yard line, Plackemeier's ranked 25th. In my mind he needs to work to improve to keep his job. On the plus side, he's only 24, and it seems that punters actually do get better as they age. Yeah I had the same trouble with that list. I tried sorting by different averages and punts inside the 20, but like you said the stats are skewed because they include guys like Cassel who have one punt. And I definitely agree that punters seem to get better with age. Kicker on the other hand, needs to be addressed for sure. Suisham looked promising in 2006/2007 but he really regressed last season. I know Shayne Graham is available but I looked at his stats and while he's better than Suisham, it seems that he's not that much above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmich Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I completely agree. We need an upgrade from Suisham. I hope someone is available for us. Seems like we are doomed to always be in close games. We need a kicker who can be an advantage for us, not disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yeah I had the same trouble with that list. I tried sorting by different averages and punts inside the 20, but like you said the stats are skewed because they include guys like Cassel who have one punt. Really though, other than Cassell, when sorting for, say, net average, (in which Plack ranks 36th) there's only 1 guy with less than 20 punts ahead of him. And only 4 guys besides Cassell have fewer than 30 punts. So if you take those 5 guys out, Plack ranks 31st in total net average, and 27th in average. Still not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurd Cudins Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Improving kicking/punting is both the easiest and cheapest way to improve a team, IMO. Suisham is a RFA and is doubtful to be tendered because it would cost $1M and it would be guaranteed. The top FA replacements are Bironas(I think he stays in Ten) and Graham(he's from VA). Bironas is better, but Graham is cheaper and a local guy(sort of). I think Bironas will get a 6yr $18M+ and I hope we are the ones to give it too him. Graham will probably be looking for something similar, in the range of 6yrs $15-$16M. As for the punting position, there's only one punter available that's a true beast, Shane Lechler. The knock on him is that he is not good at aiming punts or landing them close to the goal line. Well, he still has the highest net avg(aided by the Raiders always punting from their side of the 50). I think he will be in a similar range as Bironas, but for fewer years, 5 yr $15M. Bironas + Lechler = vast improvement Their total cap hit next year would be less than $4M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Lechler (P) and Bironas/Graham (K) should be our first two signings of the Free Agency period. Make them the highest paid at their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintrain Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 We haven't made P or K a priority since the Norv days. Remember in 2000 when we spent all that money but went thru 4 kickers by midseason? If I recall correctly 2 guys we wanted bu their agents advised against coming were David Akers and Joe Nedney. How did that work out for us or the teams they went to? We've got to address it with a Shayne Graham and some legitimate competition for Plack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qb1717 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Lots of talk about the kicking situation. First let me say that, yes, both the kicking and punting needs attention including the coaching. I have followed Suisham as he is Canadian as I am myself. Took some time to look at some stats as I have been puzzled as to why the drop-off when he looked like a keeper last year. Here is what I found. 2006 - 8/9 (88.9%) 2007 - 29/35 (82.9%) All of this was with Frost as a holder. 37/44 (84.1%) Now, 2008 12/15 (Brooks holding - and don't forget he dropped one) (80%) With Plackemieier holding the stats have dropped dramitically 14/21 (66.7%) Here is what I read according to the stats - he is about 83% without Plackmemeier holding which would be acceptable. Has Suisham lost it or is their a holding problem. There are other things that lead me to believe that there may be a holding problem - kicks falling short, one ball was tipped, crossbar was hit - these are all signs that the ball is not being hit properly. I have watched games, and he appears slow - after all - he is a big dude. I also loooked at other kickers beyond 40 yards Stover 5 /10 (50%) Lindell 11/18 (61%) Prater 10/17 (59%) Janikowski - 5/11 (45%) Akers - 10/15 (67%) Dawson - 8/12 (67%) Crosby - 8/12 (67%) Kaeding - 4/9 (44%) Bryant - 5/11 (45%) suisham - 12/20 (60%) So, what does this mean ? Improvement is needed - but I do think this goes beyond just the kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Lots of talk about the kicking situation. First let me say that, yes, both the kicking and punting needs attention including the coaching. I have followed Suisham as he is Canadian as I am myself. Took some time to look at some stats as I have been puzzled as to why the drop-off when he looked like a keeper last year. Here is what I found. ... With Plackemieier holding the stats have dropped dramitically Good post. Maybe Plack at holder is part of the problem. But I've watched Suisham in warm-ups on windy days, using that tripod holder, and he seemed seriously deficient in his ability to kick against the wind. The other teams' kickers simply showed more leg than he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qb1717 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 And that may be true - he does seem to kick the ball higher than most other kickers - like an Akers and Rackers kick deep balls but they are line drives and their kickoffs are always returned out of the end zone. Wind will definitely affect the ball the higher it is kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant15fromNJ Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Lechler (P) and Bironas/Graham (K) should be our first two signings of the Free Agency period. Make the the highest paid at their position. I wouldnt mind seeing any of the as redskins but not highest paid lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnedAussie Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Once Mr. Snyder adds me to the recruiting staff, I'll find the best punter money can buy. I already have a couple of likely prospects in mind, but first, show me the money. Of the two NFC teams remaining, where did their punters come from? Admittedly, one of them did bounce around the league for a few weeks, but has now consolidated his position on his new team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 the Redskins haven't had a top kicker since Chip Lohmiller was selected by Bobby Beathard in 1988. Gibbs' punters in his first stint weren't 45 yard per kick average performers, but guys like Jeff Hayes and Steve Cox were annually among the NFC leaders in net punting average. You can add in that first Mike Nelms and then Brian Mitchell gave the Redskins Pro Bowl level talent in the return game for years, which fans here tended to take for granted. EVERYONE here needs to be replaced. Suisham. Plackemeier. Antwaan Randle El. Only Rock Cartwright should be penciled in as a returning performer as KR. We need SPEED at punt returner. It sure would be nice to find a Darren Sproles type of player to hit the big play with speed in the return game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Nothing would make me happier than to see a few touchbacks a game!!! Is that too much to ask??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally3814 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Lots of talk about the kicking situation. First let me say that, yes, both the kicking and punting needs attention including the coaching. I have followed Suisham as he is Canadian as I am myself. Took some time to look at some stats as I have been puzzled as to why the drop-off when he looked like a keeper last year. Here is what I found. 2006 - 8/9 (88.9%) 2007 - 29/35 (82.9%) All of this was with Frost as a holder. 37/44 (84.1%) Now, 2008 12/15 (Brooks holding - and don't forget he dropped one) (80%) With Plackemieier holding the stats have dropped dramitically 14/21 (66.7%) Here is what I read according to the stats - he is about 83% without Plackmemeier holding which would be acceptable. Has Suisham lost it or is their a holding problem. There are other things that lead me to believe that there may be a holding problem - kicks falling short, one ball was tipped, crossbar was hit - these are all signs that the ball is not being hit properly. One of the best posts in a while, plus it backs up my theory that Plackemeier is screwing up the punting and Suisham's kicking. I normally post on the "other" board, but I'll add my two cents on this matter and add the fact that everything about Suisham's set up and game is towards being regular and proficient in every kick. The problem has arisen with Plack's catching and spotting that he's become like Bernard Langer with a 3ft putt, the "yips" have come into his game and they make even the most routine FG an adventure. If you watch Suisham he could give you a masterclass on the art of placekicking, his run up is measured and focussed. When he comes through to make contact with the ball, his hips are neutral on contact and the result is a usually, perfectly straight kick. To my mind those who hook or slice their kicks are just adding and other variance to their process that can go wrong. However, with this precise approach, bringing in a new holder plays havoc with their technique. Just look at Chip Lohmiller's struggles through '88 with numerous holders coming in until we signed the vet Greg Coleman who held for him in Minnesota as a College kid. The bottom line was Coleman was a weak legged punter but he was accurate and he brought Chip out his slump. Sign Lechler by all means, but let's stick with Suisham and enjoy a consistent kicker that won't let us down when we commit to a regular holder. Just remember his kicking in Giants Stadium against the Jets and Giants along with the OT kick against Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I wouldnt mind seeing any of the as redskins but not highest paid lol.. Well, if we clear out $25 million in cap, we could do it. If we want the best, pay for the best. Oh, and I'd pay Bironas more than Grayham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaozerker Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 This thread reminded me of our punter being our only pro bowler one year. Matt Turk I think, Is he a free agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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