Predictions: What to Look for From Jim Zorn in 2009

[Oldfan]

I understand it's his first year coaching, and I do like Zorn, but I think he did the fans and team a disservice by not being ready at the beginning of the year.

I was disappointed in the lack of preparation also.

I also thought putting Geisinger initially in for Samuels (instead of making the obvious switch right off the bat) during the Ravens game was a really bad sign and emblematic of him seeming overwhelmed at times this year.

I have always assumed that those calls are delegated to the position coach, Bugel in this case.

[88Comrade2000]

I'll say anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6, 8-8 is realistic for year 2. Frankly, unless there's a playoff birth; Zorn is nothing more than a placeholder for whatever big name coach Snyder will get in 2010.

[Oldfan]

In SF 5 SB seasons they were 6th, 6th, 7th, 13th & 5th in rushing attempts in the NFL.

Those rankings are deceptive. Very good teams usually pass to get the lead, then run to hold it (like Gibbs used the Riggo drill).

[Thirtyfive2seven]

It's not that hard to find ways to get Davis and Cooley on the field at the same time. They are TE types, but that doesn't mean that they have to line up as TEs.

I don't have Thomas's size handy, but he looks a lot bigger than those players you mentioned to me.

I stand corrected. DT is 6'2" 220lbs

[Oldfan]

Zorn is nothing more than a placeholder for whatever big name coach Snyder will get in 2010.

I think the fans are seduced by the big names more than Dan is now.

[DCranon21]

Prediction: Betts will get more playing time as Zorn throws the ball 60% of the time. Portis will be saved mostly for power situations and to run down the clock. Reason: Z wants more passing, Betts excels at running the screens and swings typical of the WCO.

OF, here's another question for you. While Betts isn't a shifty back, and now teams are going with a 2 or 3 RB system, you think a player like Sproles could fit in the WCO? If you remember the days of 'Frisco, they had Ricky Watters and Amp Lee coming out the backfield. I could see CP racking up more all-purpose yards next season, and if he had a quick spark-plug like Sproles in the scheme, there could be a better explosion coming out the backfield. That's another thing the team lacked, was a long gainer coming out of the backfield.

[zoony]

Good post Oldfan. A few things I take exception with.

First- I think you're focusing way too much on the ball control thing. With the exception of the Run & Shoot- that's a goal of any offense to some extent. I don't see anywhere in Zorn's history with Seattle... or with Holmgren or anyone who came from his tree... a serious focus on ball control. At least to the extent you mention. And I've not heard Zorn even touch on it at any time, ever. (I might have missed something of course). But when he's talked (frankly) about the offense and where it needs to improve or where he feels like they have excelled, TOP never comes up.

Rather, I think our TOP is more a remnant of the running game that Joe left us and a result of our inability to make big plays or threaten defenses. Not to mention our defensive stats, which really were great in forcing 3 & outs of opposing teams and keeping their offenses off the field.

In other words, unintentional.

The downfield passing game has been called OF. A lot. It's just not been executed.

[Oldfan]

OF, here's another question for you. While Betts isn't a shifty back, and now teams are going with a 2 or 3 RB system, you think a player like Sproles could fit in the WCO?

I don't think so. Z wants to play ball control and improve in the red zone. We could really use a big power back with good hands.

[Oldfan]

zoony: ...With the exception of the Run & Shoot- that's [ball control] a goal of any offense to some extent...

Well, it's the extent that we're talking about. Some OCs emphasize it, others don't.

I don't see anywhere in Zorn's history with Seattle... or with Holmgren or anyone who came from his tree... a serious focus on ball control.

Zorn isn't Holmgren. Zorn's playcalling makes sense only when ball control and field position are thought of as primary. Walsh designed the scheme as a way of achieving ball control using short passes in lieu of a heavy run attack.

Rather, I think our TOP is more a remnant of the running game that Joe left us...

The Coryell schemes are not designed for ball control. They are scoring machines, first and foremost. Joe and Al just never got the passing game in gear.

The downfield passing game has been called OF. A lot. It's just not been executed.

You know that, how? Sure, the intent was there more often than it happened, but I never sensed that Z really wants to open it up and go deep.

[zoony]

Zorn isn't Holmgren. Zorn's playcalling makes sense only when ball control and field position are thought of as primary. Walsh designed the scheme as a way of achieving ball control using short passes in lieu of a heavy run attack.

Well where you see a method and intention I simply see inexperience and a lack of execution. I guess we'll have to disagree- and see how 2009 plays out. My guess is you'll see MORE emphasis on the big play.

The Coryell schemes are not designed for ball control. They are scoring machines, first and foremost. Joe and Al just never got the passing game in gear.

No they're not, which is why Gibbs dumped the Coryell scheme in his first season when he was 0-5. He might have retained some of the language, but that's about it.

Joe alluded to this at the press conference when he introduced Saunders.

You know that, how? Sure, the intent was there more often than it happened, but I never sensed that Z really wants to open it up and go deep.

Zorn mentioning several times throughout the season that we "just missed" a big play because of something or another. Honestly I lost count of how many times he said this.

And sitting in the PB watching the Cincy game I was watching receivers go deep often. Of course they were ignored . But the call was there, the execution was not. Also, we completed several long balls early in the season.

....

[No Excuses]

Respect your thoughts but Zorn is not here to have a TOP and ground control offense. We didn't improve much in the time of possession game from last year. If that's what Dan and Vinny wanted, they would have kept Saunders.

Zorn is here to make this team a dynamic offense. He's not going to last in this job if the team is not scoring.

[TheLongshot]

Yeah, I don't agree that the deep ball is going to be as non-existant as it was this season. To make a passing offense go, you need to at least be able to threaten going deep. I think most of what we saw this year was Zorn knowing that we weren't being all that prolific focused on ball control and defense and desired to maximize the few opportunities we got. The last part failed for the most part this season.

I would like to see Betts in on more passing situations. I think one of his strengths is catching the ball out of the backfield. Course, we have to see what the team does personnelwise.

[dan757]

Kelly is a big receiver, if he knee holds up I agree

Davis is just another TE - same position as Cooley so I don't see the difference there. Not to mention Cooley is an amazing TE

Thomas is the same size as the rest of the guys (Santana, El, Thrash)

One big receiver? by my observation. I know this isn't a very constructive argument, I just think that the skins actually NEED a big WR via Free Agency

Thomas is bigger than all the others other than kelly

Kelly 6'4 219

Thomas 6'2 218

Moss 5'10 200

ARE 5'10 190

Trash 6'0 204

[Oldfan]

No they're not, which is why Gibbs dumped the Coryell scheme in his first season when he was 0-5. He might have retained some of the language, but that's about it.

You're confused. Joe began 1981 with the then-conventional two-back set. He switched to the Coryell when he went 0-5.

Zorn mentioning several times throughout the season that we "just missed" a big play because of something or another. Honestly I lost count of how many times he said this.

You could be right, but I base these opinions on what I see, not on what people say.

[zoony]

You're confused. Joe began 1981 with the then-conventional two-back set. He switched to the Coryell when he went 0-5.

I recently re-watched the 1982 NFC Champ game against Dallas and Super Bowl XVII. There was no resemblance in those offenses to Coryell.

As I understood it, Joe stuck with the Air-Coryell scheme thru his first 5 games, then mixed in the single back/2 TE set, power running game, etc.

Whatever the case, by the time the Redskins were consistently winning with Joe Gibbs the only resemblance to Coryell was the verbiage.

.....

[ntotoro]

Thomas is bigger than all the others other than kelly

Kelly 6'4 219

Thomas 6'2 218

Moss 5'10 200

ARE 5'10 190

Trash 6'0 204

Moss is lucky to be 5'7" or maybe 5'8", tops. I'm 5'5" and ran into him at Target, am 5'5" and he's barely taller.

I expect the fudge on the height for the other guys, in one way or another, as well.

[Oldfan]

Respect your thoughts but Zorn is not here to have a TOP and ground control offense. We didn't improve much in the time of possession game from last year. If that's what Dan and Vinny wanted, they would have kept Saunders.

I think Dan and Vinny made a wise choice in dumping the Coryell and bringing in a WCO guy.

The Coryell is a vertical approach with lots of seven step drops off playaction. It requires a dominant O line to make it work well. It's not easy to build and keep a dominant O line in today's NFL.

Joe and Al could never get it going because they were forced to max protect which limits the passing game too much. The WCO makes life easier for our O line.

Walsh designed the WCO to achieve ball control with mediocre talent. It's a better choice in this era of parity and mediocre teams.

[talk show host]

I fully expect that jim Zorn will no longer be employed by the Washington Redskins at this time next year.

[33]

Kelly, Thomas and Davis should be ready to go next season.

To me this is the boldest part of the predictions and really the string that would hold the rest of them together.

History tells us not to expect them to be very productive in their second years. The WR's at least. Unfortunately, I don't think any of us have seen enough to positively say that they will be very productive.

[33]

I think Dan and Vinny made a wise choice in dumping the Coryell and bringing in a WCO guy.

The Coryell is a vertical approach with lots of seven step drops off playaction. It requires a dominant O line to make it work well. It's not easy to build and keep a dominant O line in today's NFL.

Joe and Al could never get it going because they were forced to max protect which limits the passing game too much. The WCO makes life easier for our O line.

Walsh designed the WCO to achieve ball control with mediocre talent. It's a better choice in this era of parity and mediocre teams.

I can't agree with this very much. There were at least three (Balt, Miami, SD) Coryell teams in the playoffs. I also think Carolina is still Coryell, but I'm not sure.

Obviously, the WCO has been pretty dominant recently, but Coryell is huge in the league at the moment as well.

[cmman848]

I think the fans are seduced by the big names more than Dan is now.

100% agree---after his FIRST game people were calling for his head--- then when we were 6-2 zorn was a true "genius, the next gibbs, a great hire, ect." After the collapse (which was admitedly was painful at times to watch and take in) he was a "moron, terrible coach, and "the worst coach in america (which was taken out of context)". Zorn has made mistakes, but he said he is going to spend the offseason reviewing them and learning from them. I think like Barry Swizzer said about jerry jones keeping phillips that "coaches need four years". I personaly believe three years but doubt danny or the fans will have the patience.

[RiggosMohawk]

OF excellent discussion starter again.

The evidence from 2008 suggests that:

= He has said that he prefers a 60/40 pass-to-run ratio.

I agree with this, but I think this will just exacerbate our current OL woes. The current crop is a run-blocking unit. Without a major overhaul of the group going into next season, how can he justify not tailoring the scheme to fit the team's strengths? Prob every NFL team struggles with this in some fashion, but I've seen this show before.

= He wants the quick, short pass to move the chains

With DVR magic, I was able to watch the Skins-Niners/Falcons-Rams/Saints-Panthers all in a row. Even from a JC supporter, something really stood out (in a negative way) watching his throws compared these other QBs. It's not accuracy, it's not locking on... it's the slow delivery. He has to improve that, or Zorn is never going to get his wish here on a consistent basis.

I think we will be a better football team in 2009. If our schedule is no more difficult than it was this year, I foresee 10 or 11 wins.

This is really optimistic in my mind given the mismatches we have in personnel vs the desired system.

[Oldfan]

I can't agree with this very much. There were at least three (Balt, Miami, SD) Coryell teams in the playoffs. I also think Carolina is still Coryell, but I'm not sure.

I think you're wrong about the Ravens and Miami. I think they run hybrid systems. At San Diego, Cam ran the system system that Norv had installed, but he ran it with a dink and dunk approach ala the WCO. Pennington ran WCO style dink and dunk for the Jets. I don't know what he's running at Miami, but he certainly isn't going to go downfield much with that arm.

[Oldfan]

History tells us not to expect them to be very productive in their second years. The WR's at least. Unfortunately, I don't think any of us have seen enough to positively say that they will be very productive.

Never heard that. I can understand one year of settling in for a WR but two?

[Ernie5]

Interesting post, but I actually disagree with some of it. While I do think the primary thing he'll look to establish is efficiency and crispness, I think there will be more shots down the field. Had JC been more comfortable this year, we might have seen it more than we did in '08. All told, though, this is a pretty sweet post and I hope that most (if not all) of it comes to pass in 2009.