Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Hint: Bug eyed Italian-American dude that looks like he's permanently high. Can't evaluate talent for ****, and overpays on what he does find. (See the dirth of it on the current roster he's put together.). *Helpfull me. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 we dont really draft very many people, dont draft terribly well, too impatient in some cases, dont hold onto the good ones, replace them with the wrong ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streater101 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Could it be our fans never give ANYONE a chance? How would you like to go to work everyday and anyone you see thinks you guys should be fired (demoted) for the guy behind you? Many fans bash Los as well as JC and I think that Los played very well this year and especially after knee surgery. JC has only started 2 seasons worth of games and fans want him gone. Heh, the "bench", "cut", and "execute" Carlos Rogers mobs were in full force a year ago this time. He plays well this season, and now everyone has their finger on the trigger and ready to blast the front office if he's traded. Our fans are about as fickle about football as most teenagers are with pop music. I personally don't want to see JC gone, to spend a 1st on QB who doesn't pan out is a setback I don't want our team to experience, but the competition needs to be open next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streater101 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 A CB who can't catch, has routinely been beaten for TD throughout his career and was relegated to the 3rd CB for the final 4 games of the season is not in that category. He had a great first 7 games of the year but did zip the 2nd half of the season. He's not a game changer nor does he change field position. He's a solid #2 CB, nothing more-nothing less. I don't have statistics, so I can't argue how many TD's he was beaten for overall, however I do know he was only beaten for 4 this year, and none of them were over 10 yards. Routinely is a gross exaggeration. You're overestimating the talent around the rest of the league, and underestimating Roger's. If every corner in the league in the league had to play up to your standards, then they would all be virtually interchangeable with the exception Asomugha or Deion circa 95. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Yeah a friend of mine and I were just going over the Redskins drafts from year to year and they have been terrible with the exception of maybe 2-3 drafts. Oh and we should have kept Marcus Mason. The Skins tend to only want Verteran guys, not develop draftees/rookies and ship guys out that end up being stars on other teams. To me it also indicates they don't have good enough coaches to bring the best out of the young players they do get. I don't know about Mason.He never really showed anything that great except against guys that are now either on practice squads or driving UPS trucks. Plus wasn't his whole problem that he couldn't learn the playbook and his bocking assignments? If Zorn had a fit over Portis not correctly following his assignments, I don't even want to know what he'd do with Mason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitmandm Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 We dont play young guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieskin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 maybe because we dont use the draft, we use the fa far too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I was talking with someone about this last night with regard to sproles how the chargers might lose a second potential franchise RB for the second straight year, and how so many teams are faced with losing players they drafted who developed into stars due to payroll... I realize our pockets are deeper than others but we tried to think of all the players we would have lost if we were a smaller market... was an interesting (and sobering) conversation and absolutely reflects our lack of draft picks, lack of recognizing talen, history of trying to cherry pick other teams good draft work and lack of continuity with scheme, giving players a chance to develop properly... we looked at the draft the past several years and came up with the following names we would have had problems resigning to a second contract had we been a medium sized market team: (only potential from the past draft was horton, but in fairness, too early to tell) 2007: landry (his numbers aren't flashy, but we agreed his potential would garner a high price) 2006: no one (though macintosh was argued, we couldn't agree his production would cause any sort of bidding war) 2005: rogers (but even this was debatable, yet even decent DBs are always in demand by someone) 2004: taylor and cooley (no question here) 2003: no one 2002: no one 2001: smoot was the only one we could debate, again being a good DB if you do this or just look at the problems other teams have, it is really revealing... good thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Vinny Millen has to be able to select "STAR" players first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think this stems from the way the franchise has done "business" over the past ten years, or so. Through Snyder's reign the Redskins have been more into the hiring/firing of talent, as opposed to the procurement of it. We have begun an attempt to reverse that trend, as ill fitting as it may seem to many of the fans that frequent this board. However, we are still reaping from what we have already sewn. This team has a total and complete lack of depth or emerging starters in the most key of positions; offensive and defensive lines. Until Snyder understands that winning is a process berthed of a good plan, set forth by people who understand football, we will continue this pattern of "business." Perennially winning franchises are a nurturing cradle of talent, not a revolving door of retreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanhillbilly Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 We've had about 18 years of crappy drafting where we only drafted and/or developed less than 5 all pros. This trend pre-dates Snyderrato. We were crappy for most of the '90s as well. We REALLY need someone to come in and right the ship for a solid 10+ years to re-establish the franchise out of mediocrity. Charlie C. had up set up to run the table and be strong for a while. Stud CB, stud LB's, FA DL, solid/workable OL and workable QB in Johnson. He got "the trades" using sean gilbert and used those compromising pictures of ditka to get us all those picks. Norv got us to the playoffs just to have the team blown up by Danny Boy the next year, Casserly fired, and turmiol insue for the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Any Questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin49 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 One major issue this franchise has is that we are stuck in the past. We're not the Hogs, we're not the Smurfs, we're not Riggo and Monk and Theisman and Green. We have yet to embrace the changes the rest of the league has undergone. We were one of the few teams that didn't have some semblance of the Wildcat formation. We have never embraced a more open passing attack (outside of the Spurrier years). We have not done anything innovative since '82. We've become irrelevant on the NFL landscape.If we would have kept Schottenheimer we could have become relevant. If we would have gotten Ron Wolf in '02, we could have become relevant. If we get Cowher, we can again become relevant. Otherwise I suspect we will remain irrelevant for the foreseeable future. excellent post. we are not the skins of old and have not been for years, and must get with the times as most other teams have. Portis is a very good back but not a pile mover like riggo or rogers. Campbell does not run like theismann. Different player styles require a different approach to the game. work on the strengths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 We've got 3 players on our team that most teams would consider an upgrade over whomever is currently manning that position. Rogers, McIntosh, Horton & JC are not in that category. Lies.. | | V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefPowhatan17 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 We are developing our own stars. 1. Chris Horton 2. Kareem Moore 3. Fred Davis 4. Devin Thomas 5. Malcolm Kelly 6. Chad Reinhart 7. Colt Brennan 8. LaRon Landry 9. Rob Jackson 10. Rocky McIntosh 11. Golsten 12. Montgomery There's a list of still developing players from the last few years of the draft. It will take a few years, considering Gibbs 2.0 almost gave away all our draft picks. But, he made the few he had count, ie Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Snyder loves the big splash. When we get other teams' developed players on the verge of doing something, Snyder pays them the de facto $30M contract BEFORE they do anything in a burgundy & gold uniform. Out of that crop you get some that pan out, some that remain B-level talent, and some busts. Because of the salary cap and lack of draft picks, the depth behind the starters is retread, cheap, guys off the street, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM916 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Players other teams stole from us with big FA contracts: Fred Smoot Derrick Dockery Robert Royal Home-grown Players whose stock has been high before: Ladell Betts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintrain Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 pain trainwhich some teams dont have a #2 corner at that, the colts dont, the browns dont, nor the lions, nor the bengals and etc. he is a better cb then you RTEALLY think and im sure when you watched him play you was enjoyin him shut down the 7 #1 wide receivers he had to play against. #1 wide receiver bein shut down by a #2 cb makes me believe that he is a #1 cb. just cant catch As I've asked (and have yet to get an answer) name me ONE #1 WR he shut down this season. The topic was 'star' players to which someone responded Rogers. He is far from a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockvb Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Probably because we waste away all our draft picks, thus leading to a smaller pool of players that can be developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoDeep81 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Talent evaluator's in the FO. Yup.. If ya cant spot/draft tallent, ya cant create many stars from within.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Right now any objective observer will say the Skins are bottom feeders with poor overall talent despite the high salaries. This has got to be the result of poor "luck" in Drafting and FA signing over the past few years. Hopefully the cycle will change and the Skins will get lucky in the next few years. But a total house-cleaninbg is in order first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Right now any objective observer will say the Skins are bottom feeders with poor overall talent despite the high salaries. This has got to be the result of poor "luck" in Drafting and FA signing over the past few years. Hopefully the cycle will change and the Skins will get lucky in the next few years. But a total house-cleaninbg is in order first. First of all, the Skins have talent. There is a constant change of coaching, and that is a problem. Every year the players are learning a new system. On the defensive side of the ball, twice since 2000, have the Skins not be in the top 10 in defense. I don't think a total house cleaning is needed. Coaches must stay in place. Change is setting the team back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 This is an old question that has been asked and answered. The Redskins don't have a consistent plan put in place by a capable front office executive. Decisions here are made ad-hoc as emergencies come up and the result is a herky-jerky team that performs in a mediocre fashion over time. The most recent example of that is Jason Taylor. The team freaked out after Phillips Daniels went down with an injury in camp and gave up the compensation that Parcells was holding out for. In the end the player that would have taken Daniels' place, Evans, ended up starting the majority of the games anyway. The Redskins lost #2 and #6 picks in 2009 and got little in return. Meanwhile, the Ravens had some injuries on the OL during the season and pounced on Willie Anderson when he was cut by Cincinnati and he is starting for them in the playoffs. Baltimore gave him new dollars on a new contract true enough, but Ozzie Newsome didn't give up any DRAFT CHOICES for the 33 year old Anderson. That's the difference between a team that knows what it is doing and one that doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Lets not forget about the guys that we developed that left because they wanted more than we could afford, like Champ Bailey, Antonio Peirce, and Derrick Dockery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 This is an old question that has been asked and answered. The Redskins don't have a consistent plan put in place by a capable front office executive. Decisions here are made ad-hoc as emergencies come up and the result is a herky-jerky team that performs in a mediocre fashion over time. The most recent example of that is Jason Taylor. The team freaked out after Phillips Daniels went down with an injury in camp and gave up the compensation that Parcells was holding out for. In the end the player that would have taken Daniels' place, Evans, ended up starting the majority of the games anyway. The Redskins lost #2 and #6 picks in 2009 and got little in return. Meanwhile, the Ravens had some injuries on the OL during the season and pounced on Willie Anderson when he was cut by Cincinnati and he is starting for them in the playoffs. Baltimore gave him new dollars on a new contract true enough, but Ozzie Newsome didn't give up any DRAFT CHOICES for the 33 year old Anderson. That's the difference between a team that knows what it is doing and one that doesn't. Just curious, but where was the Willie Anderson of the D-Line out there? If there was one, I missed it. It is easier to find OL castoffs than DL castoffs in training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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