Best chance of beating the Ravens? Pass, pass, pass, then pass some more

[Chief skin]

If u want to pass, pass, pass, the u have to pass block, pass block, pass block, and we have proved unable to do that against a good defense. This Oline has shown it is unable to protect Jason

[SirClintonPortis]

That is when you find COOOOOley down the middle of the feild.

Only if Nagta didn't devour Rabach first.

[DGreenistheBest]

I think JC should reel back and fire a maximum velocity shot directly into the face of the first guy that breaks through the line to hurry him Sunday. See if he can't knock him unconscious. That oughta slow the rush down for the rest of the game.

[Dan T.]

Some say the league now has a book on Zorn, so the offense isn't as effective as it was earlier in the season. Have the Skins come out slinging the ball right off the bat yet this season? That would be a change-up from trying to establish Portis early on. Throw some high percentage, quick strike play action passes early and often. Swing passes to Portis and Betts. Cooley dragging across the middle. Get the ball into Devin Thomas' hands and let him shake that first CB tackle with his size. Then work Portis in once the linebackers are on their heels a bit.

I suspect we'll see more of Ladell Betts Sunday night, given that he's healty and rested and Portis is so banged up.

Completely disagree. I actually think that a conservative low risk game is the way to go. Keep an extra blocker or 2 on most pass plays and roll out Campbell for some intermediate low risk throws.

You make Flacco look like a rookie and capitalize on their mistakes. Do a few misdirection plays and hope Suisham hits some chip shots. Take the ugly win, have JC get some pressure off of him and make the 3 game push into the post season.

This is EXACTLY what Joe Gibbs would post if he had an ES account! Exactly! Not saying it's wrong necessarily, but that was his strategy with Brunell and with Campbell. And I think it retarded Campbell's growth as a quarterback somewhat, because he's been so ingrained NOT TO MAKE A MISTAKE that he has an aversion to risk longer passes, and is too quick to dump off. It's good that he wants to protect the ball, but I think he's carried that to a fault, in part as a residual effect of Gibbs' conservative offensive philosophy.

[Dan T.]

I think JC should reel back and fire a maximum velocity shot directly into the face of the first guy that breaks through the line to hurry him Sunday. See if he can't knock him unconscious. That oughta slow the rush down for the rest of the game.

There's a story that Sammy Baugh actually did that, back in the pre-face mask days. I don't know if it's apocryphal or not. One of the D-lineman was playing dirty or talking smack, so Baugh told his O-lineman to let the guy through, then drilled him in the face with the ball. Old school football = Good times.

[Warpath11]

The only way we can pass, pass, pass is if we max protect all the time as many have said our o-line is not playing well when it comes to pass protection in the last month +. If we do max protect that means we only have 2 or 3 options in the pass route and that will be easliy covered by a defense of baltimores caliber.

The only way we win this game/keep it close is if we are able to establish the run like the Giants did. That is our blue print to success this week (as a matter of fact all weeks).

[BigRedskinDaddy]

There's a story that Sammy Baugh actually did that, back in the pre-face mask days. I don't know if it's apocryphal or not. One of the D-lineman was playing dirty or talking smack, so Baugh told his O-lineman to let the guy through, then drilled him in the face with the ball. Old school football = Good times.

First Dan, to speak to your post above about passing early in the game: I thought we tried that just last week with the Giants after a couple of runs with CP?

About the early days on the gridiron, absolutely agree. My HS line coach played at USC in those days; he used to talk about guys' breaking noses with punches as they came off the LoS.

One look at this dude's beak and you knew he wasn't lying.

[jthor99]

The OP's entire premise is that we should "abandon the running game" from the outset as a strategy against arguably one of the perrenially best defenses in the league in their house. Do you really think JC is not going to come into play when discussing the effectiveness of such a strategy?

I appreciate how many people want to support their QB in here. I support him myself. I support him in the sense that I think we are invested so heavily in him as our franchise QB that he should get the start provided he is healthy through the 2009-2010 season.

That being said, the guy is simply not getting it done. There are a bunch of contributing factors of course including pass protection, these ridiculous recievers we have etc etc but at the end of the day Jason Campbell is not going into Baltimore and lighting up the Ravens defense this weekend. You know it. I know it. Everyone in here knows it. We will be lucky to get to 10 points in this game.

Our defense might keep us in it for a while but we will go down something like 20-3, 23-7, 21-0, 17-3 unless of course ed reed takes one to the bin against us which would possibly make it a 28-7, 26-3 etc type of game.

We have NO offense. whether we like that or not, JC takes some of the blame. When we were winning, scoring over 21 points against some decent defenses who weren't yet able to recognize the bubble screen by simply spotting the formation early in the season JC was being talked about as an MVP candidate and Zorn was up for Coach of the year. Well shockingly when the same team can't break the 14 point barrier for like 4 out of 5 weeks, loses 3 of the last 4 including multiple home games on National TV embarrassingly by scores like 14-10 the QB is going to get criticized. Even suggesting that he shouldn't be just sounds assanine to me.

I see your points, but I can't agree with your last 2 paragraphs.

Who have the Ravens beat that are any good? They have beaten the Browns (twice), Bengals (twice), Texans, Raiders, Eagles, Dolphins. I'm sorry, but I don't buy them as a good football team.

I realize you play your schedule, but I've watched every single Ravens game this season, and they have simply benefited from a terribly weak schedule. The teams who have beat them Steelers, Giants, Titans, Colts. Two of the teams simply dominated both respective football games (Colts, and Giants).

I don't want to take anything away from them because I firmly believe "you are what you are", but I don't see the Ravens as a team who is going to put up 28, or even 30 points against our defense. Joe Flacco passing numbers at home aren't great. If my memory serves me correctly he hasn't even had a 2100 yard day at home, and I just don't see them running all over us. I could be wrong, but that's what I truely believe

Now I will agree that the Redskins are going to be lucky to score more then 2 TD's against a defense who plays pretty dominant at home. But, I also believe the Ravens aren't as good of a football team as some are making them out to be.

[andyburd]

Best strategy is benching Campbell.

Once again, a brilliant post by you

[Dan T.]

First Dan, to speak to your post above about passing early in the game: I thought we tried that just last week with the Giants after a couple of runs with CP?

Somewhat, but still a lot of 1st and 2nd down runs, though less so as the Giants built a 13-0 lead...

First drive

1st-10, WAS32 14:55 C. Portis rushed to the left for 3 yard gain

2nd-7, WAS35 14:23 C. Portis rushed to the left for 1 yard gain

3rd-6, WAS36 13:44 J. Campbell passed to J. Thrash down the middle for 4 yard gain

4th-2, WAS40 12:59 R. Plackemeier punt, no return

Second drive

1st-10, WAS39 9:48 J. Campbell incomplete pass to the right

2nd-10, WAS39 9:45 C. Portis rushed to the right for 1 yard gain

3rd-9, WAS40 9:09 J. Campbell passed to C. Cooley to the left for 6 yard gain

4th-3, WAS46 8:16 R. Plackemeier punt, touchback

Third drive

1st-10, WAS23 2:11 C. Portis rushed to the left for 5 yard gain

2nd-5, WAS28 1:37 J. Campbell passed to C. Cooley to the right for 6 yard gain

1st-10, WAS34 1:04 J. Campbell passed to S. Moss to the left for 23 yard gain

1st-10, NYG43 0:31 J. Campbell incomplete pass down the middle

2nd-10, NYG43 0:25 C. Portis rushed to the right for 2 yard loss

2nd Quarter

Washington continued

3rd-12, NYG45 15:00 J. Campbell incomplete pass to the right

4th-12, NYG45 14:46 R. Plackemeier punt, touchback

Fourth drive

1st-10, WAS43 11:53 C. Portis rushed to the left for 5 yard gain

2nd-5, WAS48 11:17 J. Campbell sacked by B. Cofield. J. Campbell fumbled. R. Thomas recovered fumble

3rd-12, WAS41 10:33 J. Campbell passed to C. Portis to the right for 15 yard gain

1st-10, NYG44 10:05 J. Campbell passed to L. Betts down the middle for 8 yard gain

2nd-2, NYG36 9:28 L. Betts rushed to the left for 3 yard gain

1st-10, NYG33 8:48 NYG committed 4 yard penalty

1st-10, NYG29 8:31 D. Thomas rushed to the right for 29 yard touchdown. S. Suisham made PAT

[Dallsux]

Once again, a brilliant post by you

Aren't you the one who started a thread asking when we should start chanting for Bill Cowher if we lose out? Not sure why you would throw stones at someone on your side of the street :whoknows:

[Dallsux]

Now I will agree that the Redskins are going to be lucky to score more then 2 TD's against a defense who plays pretty dominant at home. But, I also believe the Ravens aren't as good of a football team as some are making them out to be.

Well, that may be true, but it hasn't seemed to me that that kind of thing has mattered at all this year. We lost to a flailing Rams team & barely beat the Browns & hapless Lions. Don't get me wrong, I think we CAN win this game. That's not really the issue tho, is it!? It doesn't matter how good or bad we think they are. If the Redskins continue to play down to their talent & continue to play to "not lose"-which is a coaching thing, not a QB thing-then no matter who we play, we will always keep them in the game & give them a chance to win. Or we just straight up lose it all together. Regardless of how good/bad the other team appears to be.

[rscalder]

My feeling is to start with a 2 receiver set (Moss and Thomas/Kelly), plus Cooley, Sellers, and Portis. Begin in a power run formation for 1 play, then go into a shotgun/no huddle moving Cooley to the slot and rotating Portis and Sellers from backfield to the other slot position or as a 5 wide, no backfield option. I think this would force the issue. We could open it up (hopefully), run some draws if possible out this formation as well. I am looking for anything to give our O some rhythm. SOMETHING has to work, right . . . anyone!

[DCranon21]

Campbell will never be a starter in the NFL ... he just doesn't have the field vision. He will be a carreer back-up and make a nice living. Let's move on.

So what has he been doing for 2 seasons. Also, nice spelling too

[DCranon21]

But to add to the convo, what the offense will have to do is open the pass in order to get the run going. We all know that the Ravens run D is a beast, and if Zorn opens up the game with some quick strikes, they'll back up. And the Ravens pass D(minus Ed Reed), isn't all that great.

[Santana_89]

Our defense might keep us in it for a while but we will go down something like 20-3, 23-7, 21-0, 17-3 unless of course ed reed takes one to the bin against us which would possibly make it a 28-7, 26-3 etc type of game.

We have NO offense. whether we like that or not, JC takes some of the blame. When we were winning, scoring over 21 points against some decent defenses who weren't yet able to recognize the bubble screen by simply spotting the formation early in the season JC was being talked about as an MVP candidate and Zorn was up for Coach of the year. Well shockingly when the same team can't break the 14 point barrier for like 4 out of 5 weeks, loses 3 of the last 4 including multiple home games on National TV embarrassingly by scores like 14-10 the QB is going to get criticized. Even suggesting that he shouldn't be just sounds assanine to me.

:applause:

To answer the OP question I honestly don't see us winning this w/o Portis having a huge game HE IS THE OFFENSE. I ABSOLUTELY think he SHOULD NOT PLAY.I'm getting tired of seeing Portis (SELLERS) playing with PASSION,HEART and PURPOSE while the rest of the offense DOESN'T match his intensity and effort.

The offense sans Portis (should he play) will NEVER "find their rhythm" and CONTINUE to look unfocused and lax.So it will be lots of 3 and outs.

The defense wil be on the field ALL GAME LONG and do their job and GET tired. Not being able to fault them they'll give up big plays,miss tackles,and not get the Ravens offense off the field. In the event D.Hall, Horton or Landry (should he play) will have to get a pick or force fumble recovery and run it back for a TD.

[Voice_of_Reason]

My feeling is to start with a 2 receiver set (Moss and Thomas/Kelly), plus Cooley, Sellers, and Portis. Begin in a power run formation for 1 play, then go into a shotgun/no huddle moving Cooley to the slot and rotating Portis and Sellers from backfield to the other slot position or as a 5 wide, no backfield option. I think this would force the issue. We could open it up (hopefully), run some draws if possible out this formation as well. I am looking for anything to give our O some rhythm. SOMETHING has to work, right . . . anyone!

I actually like a variant of what you suggest, I think they should come out 3 wide, TE and RB: Moss, Kelly/Thomas, ARE with Cooley and Portis. Spread the field and run from that formation, or you have speed on the field.

I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND the hesitation to play the rookie receivers, or make them a focal point of the game, but the combination of Moss and ARE as the two WRs doesn't scare anybody, least of all the Ravens Defense. Sellers is the odd man out here, but I just don't think you're going to run on that defense consistantly, so put out a formation that makes them respect the line of scrimmage to the goal line with speed at the WR position.

For somebody who actually likes the power running game, I can't believe I'm suggesting this, but I am. Put the game on JC and and the WRs and see what happens. If you lose, you lose. But don't just bang your head into a wall.

I actually wouldn't mind seing a couple 3-outs if they went Pass Pass Pass and couldn't complete any. Shows they are at least TRYING to do something different.

[Voice_of_Reason]

:applause:

To answer the OP question I honestly don't see us winning this w/o Portis having a huge game HE IS THE OFFENSE. I ABSOLUTELY think he SHOULD NOT PLAY.I'm getting tired of seeing Portis (SELLERS) playing with PASSION,HEART and PURPOSE while the rest of the offense DOESN'T match his intensity and effort.

The offense sans Portis (should he play) will NEVER "find their rhythm" and CONTINUE to look unfocused and lax.So it will be lots of 3 and outs.

The defense wil be on the field ALL GAME LONG and do their job and GET tired. Not being able to fault them they'll give up big plays,miss tackles,and not get the Ravens offense off the field. In the event D.Hall, Horton or Landry (should he play) will have to get a pick or force fumble recovery and run it back for a TD.

Check out what you are trying to say, and maybe check out with "sans Portis" might mean. I'm completely confused.

And btw, the Defense needs to do it's job this week also and not allow drives of 90+ yards, which it did twice in the Giants game, I believe. They have to try and get field position for the offense, pressure on the QB, and maybe a turnover or two. They have a rookie freakin' QB. Force him into a mistake. I think Blache needs to bring the house all game long. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[MidwayMonster31]

Baltimore's 58.4 defensive passer rating and their 3.48 yards per carry tells you that their defense is pretty damn fierce. It will probably be a slugfest at the beginning. Blitz the hell out of Flacco, hope they get home and force turnovers. That's probably the best way to beat them.

[jtyler42]

I actually like a variant of what you suggest, I think they should come out 3 wide, TE and RB: Moss, Kelly/Thomas, ARE with Cooley and Portis. Spread the field and run from that formation, or you have speed on the field.

I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND the hesitation to play the rookie receivers, or make them a focal point of the game, but the combination of Moss and ARE as the two WRs doesn't scare anybody, least of all the Ravens Defense. Sellers is the odd man out here, but I just don't think you're going to run on that defense consistantly, so put out a formation that makes them respect the line of scrimmage to the goal line with speed at the WR position.

For somebody who actually likes the power running game, I can't believe I'm suggesting this, but I am. Put the game on JC and and the WRs and see what happens. If you lose, you lose. But don't just bang your head into a wall.

I actually wouldn't mind seing a couple 3-outs if they went Pass Pass Pass and couldn't complete any. Shows they are at least TRYING to do something different.

I so agree with this post! :applause:

We should open the game in 3WR, 1TE, 1RB personnel and shift between splitting Cooley out into the slot, Portis out wide, and JC in the shotgun. We have got to spread the box, this would not only open running lanes for Portis but it makes it harder for a defense to disguise who is blitzing or it's coverage. We should go no huddle(IMHO JC seems to actually be more comfortable in the hurry up), and we should attack downfield, the Ravens DB's sit on alot of routes b/c they have Ed Reed sitting back in the post...

The Ravens play alot of single high safety/cover 1 defense like us, they will obviously roll coverage to Moss...We should send Devin Thomas on a 9 on one side of the field and Tana on a 9 on the opposite side...The Ravens will more than likely put Washington on Moss so that leaves Rolle to cover Devin Thomas...Rolle does not have the speed to stay with Thomas, JC should just drop back looking at Moss(to further pull Ed Reed to Moss' side) and on his 5th step just turn and unleash a bomb to Thomas on Rolle....

[[[ghost]]]

The problem with blitzing Flacco is that he's got a helluva arm, so that if Clayton, McGahee or Mason get a step on any of our players, it's over.

[darrelgreenie]

...We should send Devin Thomas on a 9 on one side of the field and Tana on a 9 on the opposite side......Rolle does not have the speed to stay with Thomas, JC should just drop back looking at Moss(to further pull Ed Reed to Moss' side) and on his 5th step just turn and unleash a bomb to Thomas on Rolle....

It seems so simple? But i have zero faith in Zorn/JC going deep.

The Giants played 8 in the box to start the game against us and we didn't challenge them deep.

Then they turned around and executed the exact blueprint on how to attack a Cover 1.

I say keep it balanced early and lean on the running game to get 3rd and manageable and hope the receivers can catch.

I don't want to see series like this though:

Washington Redskins at 9:56, (1st play from scrimmage 9:48)

1-10-WAS 39 (9:48) J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to S.Moss (M.Kiwanuka).

2-10-WAS 39 (9:45) C.Portis right guard to WAS 40 for 1 yard (M.Johnson).

3-9-WAS 40 (9:09) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass short left to C.Cooley to WAS 46 for 6 yards (K.Phillips).

1-10-NYG 43 (:31) J.Campbell pass incomplete deep middle to S.Moss (C.Webster).

2-10-NYG 43 (:25) C.Portis right tackle to NYG 45 for -2 yards (J.Alford, M.Johnson).

3-12-NYG 45 (15:00) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to A.Randle El.

4-12-NYG 45 (14:54) R.Plackemeier punts 45 yards to end zone, Center-E.Albright, Touchback.

[jtyler42]

It seems so simple? But i have zero faith in Zorn/JC going deep.

The Giants played 8 in the box to start the game against us and we didn't challenge them deep.

Then they turned around and executed the exact blueprint on how to attack a Cover 1.

I say keep it balanced early and lean on the running game to get 3rd and manageable and hope the receivers can catch.

I don't want to see series like this though:

Washington Redskins at 9:56, (1st play from scrimmage 9:48)

1-10-WAS 39 (9:48) J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to S.Moss (M.Kiwanuka).

2-10-WAS 39 (9:45) C.Portis right guard to WAS 40 for 1 yard (M.Johnson).

3-9-WAS 40 (9:09) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass short left to C.Cooley to WAS 46 for 6 yards (K.Phillips).

1-10-NYG 43 (:31) J.Campbell pass incomplete deep middle to S.Moss (C.Webster).

2-10-NYG 43 (:25) C.Portis right tackle to NYG 45 for -2 yards (J.Alford, M.Johnson).

3-12-NYG 45 (15:00) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to A.Randle El.

4-12-NYG 45 (14:54) R.Plackemeier punts 45 yards to end zone, Center-E.Albright, Touchback.

I don't disagree with what you're saying at all...It's actually the right way to play it, but I think that the Ravens are going to expect us to play it exactly that way...We need to change things up, go no huddle for a few series, come out in the shotgun and run, come out in Big sets and pass...We have to go against tendencies to beat the Ravens we aren't good enough to just come out and do what we do...

[Voice_of_Reason]

I don't disagree with what you're saying at all...It's actually the right way to play it, but I think that the Ravens are going to expect us to play it exactly that way...We need to change things up, go no huddle for a few series, come out in the shotgun and run, come out in Big sets and pass...We have to go against tendencies to beat the Ravens we aren't good enough to just come out and do what we do...

I wouldn't mind if they came out and just went pass-pass-pass-pass-pass. Just to see what happens. Ok, if they're 0-5, then fine, trying something else. But incomplete pass, stuffed run, 3rd and long just drives me nuts. Almost as much as stuffed run, stuffed run, 3rd and long.

I think the key is that they are not picking up yards on first down, and then they're trying to pick up 3-4 yards on a run on second down every time. One of these days, I'm going to go back and break down every play for every game and calculate how many 2nd and longs we had, why we had them, and then how many times we ran right into the middle of the pile on 2nd and long.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't disagree with what you're saying at all...It's actually the right way to play it, but I think that the Ravens are going to expect us to play it exactly that way...We need to change things up, go no huddle for a few series, come out in the shotgun and run, come out in Big sets and pass...We have to go against tendencies to beat the Ravens we aren't good enough to just come out and do what we do...

I am in fact in favor of the passing: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=263869

But from what i've seen this year Zorn seems set the short passing game. He won't consistently send receivers downfield or spread it out 4/5 wide or use shotgun. Mix in spotty pass-pro and underperforming receiving corps and i would rather see the Redksins stick with the run then try and use play-action.

*I agree with the concept but i've just lost faith in the passing game. I hope i'm wrong.

come out in Big sets and pass

I know right?

What happened to the double TE sets?

:point2sky