James Moss Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Are there are eXtremeskins members that can remember Gibbs' 1st year as a head coach of the Redskins? If so; can you recall how bad the 1981 team looked during their 0-5 start? I do not remember anything specific about that season other than the final record. If the start of 1981 looked as horrible as the start of 2008 then I will not worry until mid-season. The famous quote: “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. Well in this case, I am praying that history will repeat itself and Jim Zorn will become the next Joe Gibbs and win us 3 Super Bowls. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciscofan Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Very good question, which leads to a good point. The team is in transition, and we all need patience. I suppose this game was a reality check for many. But despite starting 0-5, maybe we can still finish 8-8 like Gibbs 1.0 did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD.C RedskinsFan Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I really hope so but if it does happen it would be a coincidence more than it happening just for the sole reason that it happened before (not saying that you're saying this). If history wanted to repeat itself so much then the Redskins would probably win the Super Bowl this year and then the Cowboys would beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl in 2010 and 2011. You gotta make a future for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I brought this and the 0-5 start with Marty up a couple of times last night. I am not too disappointed with last night. It will take some time for Campbell to learn the WCO. It took Hasselback two full years before he was comfortable in the system. He is only one example. What we can take away from the game: 1. Our defense held a high powered offense to only 16 points w/o our best CB. 2. Portis had a darn good night, considering the OL wasn't oppening any holes for him. 3. Special Teams especially Rock, had a very good night. 4. Durant Brooks hangtime is Ray Guy like. 5. Patience, Patience, Patience..... the offense will turn around. Don't expect a SB this year, just watch the team get better during the course of the season and if the team ends up 8-8 or 9-7 it will be a successful season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 1981 Gibbs' first season with the Redskins started inauspiciously when the team lost their first five games. Cooke famously expressed confidence in Gibbs, declaring that the team would finish 8-8. The losses and Cooke's confidence served as a catalyst, and the newly-motivated team improved and reached an even 8-8 record in 1981. -from wiki I have a little faith that Zorn can learn. He's a smart guy and doesn't like getting embarassd. Really, I have no choice but to have a little faith. So I do. So should you. Sucks right now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 If Joe had the talent that this team has back in 81 he wouldn't have started 0-5. From what I saw of Zorn last night I am not impressed and honestly embarrased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but in the 5 game losing streak that we had at the start of Gibbs 1.0 we were actually one of the leading teams in the NFL in terms of offensive production in terms of yardage. Just did a quick google check and our lowest output was 304 yards and we had over 500 yards of offense against the Cards (lets hope that works out the same this year!). The problem was an unbelievable number of turnovers - 21 in the first 5 games. In the same period we generated 6 turnovers for a -15 ratio. The potential of the Gibbs offense was obvious out of the gate - we just had to hold onto the football. There is much more to get right in Zorns scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I can't believe I'm the one who is going to say this because if there's a resident "looking back at the past" fan, I'm it. But we've got to let Gibbs 1.0 go. That was a great period to be a fan and I'm grateful that I was able to appreciate it, but not everything this team does now needs to be compared to our greatest era. Zorn's first game/year will be unique from Gibbs'. It will also be unique from Norv's or Steve Spurrier's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Moss Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but in the 5 game losing streak that we had at the start of Gibbs 1.0 we were actually one of the leading teams in the NFL in terms of offensive production in terms of yardage. Just did a quick google check and our lowest output was 304 yards and we had over 500 yards of offense against the Cards (lets hope that works out the same this year!). The problem was an unbelievable number of turnovers - 21 in the first 5 games. In the same period we generated 6 turnovers for a -15 ratio. The potential of the Gibbs offense was obvious out of the gate - we just had to hold onto the football. There is much more to get right in Zorns scheme. That’s what I was looking for. Thanks. Those are final stats, right? What about the stats during the 5 losses? To be fair, that would be the important stat to look for. I remember reading that with Gibbs it was kind of a philosophical change midway through the season. He started off with his Air Coryell offence and modified it to more of a power running game which came to be known as "Redskins Football". I’ve also heard or read several accounts on what prompted the change. Theisman said that he knocked on Gibbs door late one night to talk. John Riggins claimed it had more to do with personnel. Gibbs had the smallish Joe Washington who came from San Diego. When Joe Washington got injured who was left but big John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciscofan Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 At least we didn't give up any turnovers last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clansea Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Good point except Gibbs had been a successful OC already. Zorn has zero play calling or team organizing experience and it showed last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 That’s what I was looking for. Thanks. Those are final stats, right? What about the stats during the 5 losses? To be fair, that would be the important stat to look for.I remember reading that with Gibbs it was kind of a philosophical change midway through the season. He started off with his Air Coryell offence and modified it to more of a power running game which came to be known as "Redskins Football". I’ve also heard or read several accounts on what prompted the change. Theisman said that he knocked on Gibbs door late one night to talk. John Riggins claimed it had more to do with personnel. Gibbs had the smallish Joe Washington who came from San Diego. When Joe Washington got injured who was left but big John. Those turnover stats were from the first 5 games. 21 turnovers in 5 games - look no further for the reason for the 0-5 start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwangoM Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The big difference will be that Gibbs 1.0 had a better GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The 0-5 start was strange. We were running the Coryell offense and putting up huge numbers, but not winning. Joe flipped to a run-first mindset and started winning. Basically, the game was moving too fast for the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 So the team has a new coach and lost their first game. Now we need to bring up references to Gibbs 1.0? How about Norv 1? Shottenheimer 1? My point is that there are very few similarities here, other than they each lost their first game as a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I love this silly comparison. How about in 1981 Gibbs had 2 players that are now HOF'ers. Monk/riggo Gibbs had a veteran QB that was serviceable. Gibbs had youth on the offensive line, which became the HOGS. Gibbs had youth on the defensive lines and a stud at d tackle. Zorn doesn't have the players Gibbs I had to start. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 It's a double edged sword for me. On one side, I love to remember the greatest time to be a Redskins fan. On the other hand, thinking about how good we had it, makes me want to literally cry everytime I see how inept our team plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Moss Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 Well cool. Thanks to the 2 or 3 people that actually (can) read the question (not comparison) and answered. Good evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Well cool. Thanks to the 2 or 3 people that actually (can) read the question (not comparison) and answered. Good evening. I think the '81 Redskins started to develop what Charles Mann likes to refer to as a "swagger" about them as they reduced the amount of mistakes, penalties etc. that plagued them early on. Confidence set in and execution was improved. Will the same kind of "swagger" happen to the '08 Redskins as they go along? It will if they go into games expecting to win instead of hoping not to lose. I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyRules Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Here is a pm that I sent to another member regarding this issue: You actually have to go back to the late '70's and George Allen to appreciate the initial patience with Gibbs first tenure. After Coach Allen, Washington became accustomed to winning - under Allen we never had a losing season in 7 years. (worst year we had was 8-6) After his tenure we hired one of his protégés, Jack Pardee, to become head coach. The first year we went 8-8, the next year 10-6, and he ended his last year with a record of 6-10 (which, in this town, was totally unacceptable). When recalling the Pardee era, the fan base was more upset with how we lost. Pardee wasn't an offensive minded coach; he had played defense his entire career. Our play calling was on 1st down - run right; on 2nd down - run left; on 3rd down - run up the middle; 4th down - punt. Gibbs 1.0 was exciting because Coach Gibbs was a disciple of "Air Coryell" and was coming from the San Diego Chargers (as their offensive coordinator) where their QB, Dan Fouts ,was breaking numerous passing records. The Washington fan base was elated to have a coach who would transition the Skins from a run first mentality to a passing juggernaut. Our expectations were not high; we knew there would be a transition period. However, we did not expect a 0-5 start. (or a 2-8 start either). If I recall correctly (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), Gibbs was just about at the end of his grace period, with the fans calling for his ouster, when he said in a press conference that he guaranteed to turn the team around. He won 6 out of the next 8 to finish 8-8. The rest is history. I think the major difference with Gibbs 1.0 and Zorn is that Gibbs replaced a below average coach with a bad record and Zorn has replaced a legend who went to the playoffs last year. Our expectations are too high and with Zorn throwing players under the bus (something that Gibbs never did) our patience will wear thin very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Differences are that Cooke knew football Snyder doesn't, so when he hired Gibbs he knew what he was doing. Gibbs had a better background than Zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I understand people saying this is a transition like starting with Marty, or Gibbs first season, but that's also a bit dishonest. We returned all 22 starters from the end of last season, and when one of them went down we traded a 2nd round pick for Jason Taylor. I don't think the coaches or front office were treating this as a transition year, but for some reason the fans should? I don't see any Zorn/Gibbs comparisons worthy enough to bring up. Gibbs had been an OC for a long time with multiple teams and had some very successful seasons. He was handed a roster that was obviously in transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogNose Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Are there are eXtremeskins members that can remember Gibbs' 1st year as a head coach of the Redskins? If so; can you recall how bad the 1981 team looked during their 0-5 start?I do not remember anything specific about that season other than the final record. If the start of 1981 looked as horrible as the start of 2008 then I will not worry until mid-season. The famous quote: “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. Well in this case, I am praying that history will repeat itself and Jim Zorn will become the next Joe Gibbs and win us 3 Super Bowls. :logo: Yes I remember it quite well. Jack Kent Cooke wanted to fire Gibbs and Beathard after the 0-5 start. Beathard had to convince Cooke not to fire the guy he had recommended to him and had to save his own job at the same time. The rest is history. We need to give Zorn a chance...hope Danny does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 You cant convince these idiotic chicken littles that things take time to learn. 1 loss and they want the whole team traded. Jim Zorns offense is going to work when we get it down, and unfortunately that takes a lil time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinkymark67 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Are there are eXtremeskins members that can remember Gibbs' 1st year as a head coach of the Redskins? If so; can you recall how bad the 1981 team looked during their 0-5 start?I do not remember anything specific about that season other than the final record. If the start of 1981 looked as horrible as the start of 2008 then I will not worry until mid-season. The famous quote: “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. Well in this case, I am praying that history will repeat itself and Jim Zorn will become the next Joe Gibbs and win us 3 Super Bowls. :logo: I remember that time as well. Like another poster said some of us were thrilled to finally have an offense oriented team. I remember actually being somewhat thrilled when the Redskins lost that 40-30 game to the Cradinals just because of the exciting plays. That team moved the ball well but turnovers were numerous during the 0-5 start. It was hard hearing people call them the "Deadskins". Even when they turned things around to 8-8 they didn't seem to get a lot of respect. One thing that was different then--- no internet. I'd hate to have seen what people would have written on the message boards when the team was 0-5. Will Zorn turn things around? Who knows? We didn't know things would be turned around then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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