1 Billion Dollars to Georgia????

[Sticksboi05]

Just another example of poor decision making that you can expect to continue under a McCain administration.

:doh:

Oh please.

MissU - The World Wars happened and we became the strongest nation in the world as opposed to a bunch of colonies surviving because the European countries decided to let us develop.

[MissU28]

MissU - The World Wars happened and we became the strongest nation in the world as opposed to a bunch of colonies surviving because the European countries decided to let us develop.

yeah, i know...it was more of a rhetorical question. I just think it's time to go back to non-interventionism.

[Ken]

You are young and naive then. If you are actually going to vote for the first time I strongly suggest you get your head out of the sand and start doing a bit of research and critical thinking. This is not a personal attack mind you, simply a suggestion from someone who thinks that ignorance is a dangerous thing.

The ultimate irony.....

You do know you have a McCain banner as your sig right?

[Ken]

It's our nature to be there with aid. It's part of being American.

~Bang

I agree, but it is aid for things like natural disasters and humanitarian crisis.

Not a war that we provoked against a Super power with the ability to incinerate us.

Not only is it ridiculous to begin with, but it is further pissing off the Russians and is inflaming a situation that is every bit as bad as the Cold War.

I am amazed that this is going under reported like it is. This is in no way a good thing for any of us.

[Ken]

Upon further review, I am forced to admit that some of my statements were baseless and sadly un-informed.

Takes a big man to admit when he is wrong.

There is no difference between the democrats and republicans. They are all on the same team. Everyone will balk at that, but it is true. When it all comes down to it, all of the rhotoric doesn't come down to a hill of beans, they are both working on the same team. Unfortunately, that team's goal does not have the best interest of the American people at heart.

[Ken]

sigh. what ever happened to the non-interventionism policies of George Washington, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson? Or the Monroe Doctrine? I know the times have changed and our government has changed... but sometimes we just need to butt out and worry about ourselves.

that's all I want....but you have to remember-

We are living in a Post 911 world!!!!!

:doh:

Such a stupid statement.

[luckydevil]

American exceptionalism is expensive

[Oldskool]

The ultimate irony.....

You do know you have a McCain banner as your sig right?

Ken. 9/11 commission called. They want all the conspiracy nuts back in their cages by 22:00 hours.

[Ken]

Ken. 9/11 commission called. They want all the conspiracy nuts back in their cages by 22:00 hours.

It means so much less coming from you now that I know you are a neocon nutjob.

You should be ashamed.

[Oldskool]

It means so much less coming from you now that I know you are a neocon nutjob.

You should be ashamed.

Ken. You are a truther. Anything you say is automagically out the window.

And not that it matters to a nutcase like you, I'm not a Neocon.

[Ken]

Ken. You are a truther. Anything you say is automagically out the window.

And not that it matters to a nutcase like you, I'm not a Neocon.

How are you not when you support Bush Part III?

Do you support the Patriot Act I or II, Millitary Commissions Act 2006, PDD 51, the abolishment of the great Writ, or the abolishment of Posse Comitatus?

If you support any or all of those, you are, with all likelyhood, a neocon.

[Hubbs]

Toe Jam, take it from someone your own age... Obama's not gonna change a damn thing when it comes to how much we spend on foreign aid.

[pjfootballer]

People in America go hungry. People in America have no health insurance. People in America cannot pay rent/mortgages. People in America could use a tax break. But let's pull a Billion dollars out of our ass for Georgia because it makes us look good.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Not only is it ridiculous to begin with, but it is further pissing off the Russians and is inflaming a situation that is every bit as bad as the Cold War.

Really? How so?

[Oldskool]

Really? How so?

Seriously? You want answers from Ken?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Seriously? You want answers from Ken?

I'm always curious to see other people's opinions. Even people like Ken. You never know.

[Midnight Judges]

Upon further review, I am forced to admit that some of my statements were baseless and sadly un-informed.

We're all human. Way to man up. :logo:

[Merlin Emrys]

My main question is a practical one: where do we get this $1 billion? We are in debt up to our ears but can afford to make a gift like this? I don't know of too many sensible households that manage their money the same way our government does. Let's just hope we're not borrowing this money from China like we did to pay for the stimulus payments.

[Zguy28]

I have a mixed feeling over this.

On one hand I am glad we are helping a people who recently were bullied by the Russians.

On the other, if the help is needed that bad, I wish the aid money came more from the private citizens and companies of the USA.

[Zguy28]

People in America go hungry. People in America have no health insurance. People in America cannot pay rent/mortgages. People in America could use a tax break. But let's pull a Billion dollars out of our ass for Georgia because it makes us look good.

Okay. Are you helping these poor Americans with your money and time?

And I'm not talking a token, feel-good, once a year Christmas donation to the Salvation Army.

What are you doing to remedy the situations you mentioned?

Americans need to learn to deny themselves and help others in need personally.

[Ken]

Really? How so?

Here is just some of my concerns:

Russia May Cut off Oil to the West

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/08/29/cnrussia129.xml

Russia may push forward with S300 deal with Iran

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080901/116446535.html

Relief agencies decry Military Role in Georgia

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/world/bal-te.georgia28aug28,0,2484702.story

Russia Promises Military response to US Missiles

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080826/D92Q53VO0.html

Russia Considers Nucleur Missliles for Syria, Mediteranean, and Baltic

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5513

Russia Says US may have Weapons to Georgia with aid

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=324039

Putin: US Provoked Georgian Conflict

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5me3Eey0dFUyqJCQrt-O3R4gp2g

Military help for Georgia is a 'declaration of war', says Moscow in extraordinary warning to the West

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23545668-details/Military+help+for+Georgia+is+a+'declaration+of+war',+says+Moscow+in+extraordinary+warning+to+the+West/article.do

Cold War tension rises as Putin talks of Black Sea confrontation

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4622422.ece

Top Brass Defends Russia's Right to Preemptive Strike

http://www.mnweekly.ru/news/20080124/55305669.html

"We are not planning to attack anyone. But our partners should clearly understand... that the armed forces will be used if necessary to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Russian Federation and its allies, including on a preventative basis, including with the use of nuclear weapons," RIA Novosti quoted Baluyevsky as saying Saturday at a scientific conference in Moscow. He underlined, however, that "military force can and must be used to demonstrate the decisiveness of the top leadership of the country" only as "a last resort" and when all other methods have failed.

Yeah, this is the one that bugs me the most. Basically, the past 8 years has changed to doctrine for the russians....they see the US preemptivly striking other countries and can't afford to play the cold war game anymore. This is scary. This affects everyone.

This isn't like messing with Iraq, Iran, or Afganistan....this is a super power that can wipe us and the world off the map. They don't mess around either. It is a scary game the Bush Administration is playing here. Of course, I'm the crazy one though.

[Ken]

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL272497420080906

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Russia accuses West of provocation in Georgia

Sat Sep 6, 2008 11:08am EDT

By Oleg Shchedrov and Aidar Buribayev

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev accused the United States on Saturday of provoking Moscow by using warships to deliver relief aid to its ally Georgia, with which Russia fought a brief war last month.

"I wonder how they would feel if we now dispatched humanitarian assistance to the Caribbean, suffering from a hurricane, using our navy," Medvedev said, adding that a whole U.S. fleet had been dispatched to deliver the aid.

Russia has also accused U.S. warships of rearming Tbilisi's defeated army, a charge dismissed as "ridiculous" by Washington.

NATO in turn has rejected talk of a buildup of its warships in the Black Sea, saying their recent presence in the region was part of routine exercises.

Medvedev, speaking at a meeting of his advisory state council, said he had summoned the council to discuss changes in Russia's foreign and security policy after the war.

The biggest U.S. ship to arrive so far, the USS Mount Whitney, dropped anchor on Friday off the Russian-patrolled Georgian port of Poti.

Tension between Moscow and the West eased on Saturday when the OSCE security body said Russia was allowing its observers to circulate freely throughout Georgia, but the breakaway Georgian region Abkhazia later said it was forging military cooperation with Moscow.

The OSCE report comes days before French President Nicolas Sarkozy travels to Moscow for talks with Medvedev to assess Russian compliance with a French-brokered peace plan.

"We've had very good access. I think we're working at it and the Russians are, I'd argue, opening up," said Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb in Avignon, chairman in office of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

The European Union agreed on Saturday to send an "autonomous mission" to Georgia to monitor Russia's withdrawal from occupied territory, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said, accusing Moscow of failing to respect several points in the peace plan.

Russia and Georgia fought a brief but intense war after Tbilisi sent in troops to try to seize back the rebel region of South Ossetia, provoking massive retaliation by Moscow.

The conflict has dented confidence in the Caucasus as an energy transit route -- Georgia is at the heart of two crucial oil and gas pipelines which bring high-quality crude and gas from booming oil state Azerbaijan to Europe via Turkey.

Analysts have also questioned the feasibility of the ambitious Nabucco gas pipeline project, which would bring Caspian Sea gas to Europe via Georgia, reducing reliance on Russia.

Russian stocks and the rouble have been hurt as foreign investors pull money out because of increased political risk.

MILITARY COOPERATION

The West has stepped up its backing for Georgia to join NATO -- a move Moscow opposes on the ground that Georgia is in its sphere of influence -- since Russia recognized the Georgian breakaway rebel regions South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states.

So far only Nicaragua has followed Russia's lead in recognizing the two provinces as independent. In a setback for Russia, its ex-Soviet security allies in the Collective Security Treaty Organization stopped short of doing so late last week.

Tbilisi and Western states have accused Russia of annexation, a claim Moscow sharply denies.

On Saturday self-styled Abkhaz president Sergei Bagapsh said he expected to reach agreement with Moscow soon on military cooperation.

"We're insisting (on military cooperation) and we will ask the Russian Federation to leave Russian troops in Abkhazia," Bagapsh told reporters in the Russian capital, adding that the agreement should be signed within the next few days in Moscow.

Bagapsh has asked that Russian vessels and troops remain on Abkhazia's lush Black Sea coast and in the coastal cities of Guadata and Ochamchira.

"(The Russian military) will also probably be in front of the security zone," he said, referring to a zone set up along the Abkhaz boundary in the early 1990s, when the province fought off Georgian rule. Russian peacekeepers have been based there since.

In late August the Kremlin said it was preparing to sign alliance agreements with both Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but declined to say when it would do so.

REGIONAL PEACE THREATENED

Turkish President Abdullah Gul paid a landmark visit to neighboring long-time foe Armenia on Saturday to attend a soccer match he said could help end a century of mutual hostility and aid security in the broader Caucasus region.

"We saw a month ago how unresolved issues in the Caucasus threaten peace in the region," Gul told a news conference. Making this trip at such a time makes it especially important," said Gul, the first Turkish leader to visit Armenia.

The Georgia conflict has convinced many that it is time for Ankara and Yerevan to put their differences aside.

(Reporting by Oleg Shchedrov and Aidar Buribayev in Moscow, Mark John and Francois Murphy in Avignon, Paul de Bendern in Yerevan; writing by Amie Ferris-Rotman, editing by Tim Pearce)

[Ken]

I can see everyone is seeing the point I'm trying to make.... :doh:

I guess this isn't as intellectual as the Sarah Palin threads, the Pin up thread, or the Amercian Al Qae da....

I'll keep this thread updated as this major news story develops...

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0633952420080907?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Venezuela to host Russia navy exercise in Caribbean

Sat Sep 6, 2008 11:57pm EDT

CARACAS (Reuters) - Several Russian ships and 1,000 soldiers will take part in joint naval maneuvers with Venezuela in the Caribbean Sea later this year, exercises likely to increase diplomatic tensions with Washington, a pro-government newspaper reported on Saturday.

Quoting Venezuela's naval intelligence director, Salbarore Cammarata, the newspaper Vea said four Russian boats would visit Venezuelan waters from November 10 to 14.

Plans for the naval operations come at a time of heightened diplomatic tension and Cold War-style rhetoric between Moscow and the United States over the recent war in Georgia and plans for a U.S. missile defense system in the Czech Republic and Poland.

Cammarata said it would be the first time Russia's navy carried out such exercises in Latin America. He said the Venezuelan air force would also take part.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, an outspoken critic of Washington, has said in recent weeks that Russian ships and planes are welcome to visit the South American country.

"If the Russian long-distance planes that fly around the world need to land at some Venezuelan landing strip, they are welcome, we have no problems," he said on his weekly television show last week.

Chavez, who buys billions of dollars of weapons from Russia, has criticized this year's reactivation of the U.S. Navy's Fourth Fleet, which will patrol Latin America for the first time in over 50 years.

The socialist Chavez says he fears the United States will invade oil-rich Venezuela and he supports Russia's growing geopolitical presence as a counterbalance to U.S. power.

Chavez has bought fighter jets and submarines from Russia to retool Venezuela's aging weapons and says he is also interested in a missile defense system.