Republicans: Do you support neoconservatism?

[Hubbs]

This thought came to me when responding to the thread about changing political stances, and I think it warrants its own thread.

There are, obviously, some diehard Republican supporters on this board. Some of them are significantly older than myself; I find that interesting because, assuming they haven't had some sort of divine conversion experience and have, in fact, been lifelong Republicans, the party has changed quite a bit in that time. The past decade, especially, has seen the GOP fall under the control of the neoconservatives, a label that I’ve always found interesting because many supposed neoconservatives policies aren’t conservative at all.

Now, the precise definition of which policies fall under the neocon ideology and which do not is a bit murky, because it seems to depend upon whom you ask. So, for the purposes of the thread, I’ll keep the question rather general, and let Republican respondents use their own definition of the term. With that out of the way…

If you consider yourself a Republican, if you buy into what the general party platform is supposed to be… do you support neoconservatism? Would you revert the party to a more traditional ideology if you could? Why or why not?

[PeterMP]

Was Bush I a neoconservative?

He invaded Panama for very little reason and lead the Gulf War.

If yes, then I am. If not, then no.

Generally, as a concept, I don't have much problem w/ the IDEAS behind the Bush administration policy. I'm not sure it was possible to carry them out well based on our military troop levels, and they certainly have even done a poor job even taking that into account.

[Hubbs]

Neoconservatism, at least according to some, isn't just about foreign policy. The belief that civil liberties must be largely ignored in the name of "homeland security" is often attributed to neoconservatism. Hell, the concept of a federal Department of Homeland Security, a Washington creation that costs huge amounts of money at a woefully inefficient pace, is attributed to neoconservatism, and is a decidedly liberal notion.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I have heard so many different definitions I have no clue what it really means

Is a "neo-conservative" an ex Jewish liberal who is a hawk on foriegn policy? I.E Joe Liberman? Is it a Dick Cheney? Is it modern day Wilsonionism?

If I ever get a definition I'd be able to better answer

[Art Monk Fan]

I have absolutely no idea what "neoconservative" is except a code word used by the left for "bad Republican out to get you."

[Mass_SkinsFan]

As a Conservative myself (not a Republican mind you); I have to say that many of the things labeled "neoconservatism" are what true Conservatism is supposed to be about. Some of the others are flat out Liberalism at its worst. So the term really has very little meaning for me.

[grhqofb5]

I would never allow someone to pigeon hole me as neo anything.

[SkinsOrlando]

Agree with SHF's comments. Now it's nothing more than a catch phrase for the left, much like "No blood for oil". It's cutenes and effect has worn out.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Agree with SHF's comments. Now it's nothing more than a catch phrase for the left, much like "No blood for oil". It's cutenes and effect has worn out.

Except, of course, that there's a whole group of people who call themselves both republicans and neo-conservatives.

Liberals did not make that name up.

[Redskins Diehard]

Except, of course, that there's a whole group of people who call themselves both republicans and neo-conservatives.

Liberals did not make that name up.

But I think ex-liberals are the way reason the word was made up...at least according to wiki.

And it looks like a liberal actually did make it up also according to the same source

[Tulane Skins Fan]

But I think ex-liberals are the way reason the word was made up...at least according to wiki.

And it looks like a liberal actually did make it up also according to the same source

Really? I would be surprised to hear that.

Either way, there are republicans today who embrace the term and claim to be one. It is not SIMPLY a term that liberals made up to de-value republican ideas or something.

Also, I will say that neo-con used to mean someone who was socially liberal but fiscally and otherwise conservative. But, I'll agree it has taken on a new meaning in the last 8 years.

[Zen-like Todd]

Except, of course, that there's a whole group of people who call themselves both republicans and neo-conservatives.

Liberals did not make that name up.

Technically they did. The "neoconservative movement" was started by liberals.

That said, everyone who said it's a meaningless phrase is on the right track. It's essentially codeword for "evil republicans we don't like", morphing to fit the times and policies of the intended target.

[expensivegift]

Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of the social liberalism, moral relativism, and New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the presidential administrations of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, representing a realignment in American politics, and the defection of some liberals to the right side of the political spectrum; hence the term, which refers to being 'new' conservatives.[1] Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, maintaining that America's role as the world's sole superpower is indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order.[2] The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had "moved to the right".[3][4] Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy.[5] According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by "the notion that liberalism" had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about."[1]

That's from Wikipedia so it is an iffy source but it sounds right to me. True Republicans would generally identify with this view.

The word neo-conservative sounds scary because of the word "neo" doesn't it? The reaction is like, "omg neo that sounds so shockingly extreme!" I can only imagine the reaction to the word neo-moderate, neo-liberal or neo-American.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Technically they did. The "neoconservative movement" was started by liberals.

That said, everyone who said it's a meaningless phrase is on the right track. It's essentially codeword for "evil republicans we don't like", morphing to fit the times and policies of the intended target.

But are there not republicans today who proudly call themselves neoconservatives?

[Hooper]

Why should anyone support the neocons? They've been wrong about EVERYTHING. At this point, it would be like Jim Zorn asking Steve Spurrier how to succeed in the NFL.

[Zen-like Todd]

But are there not republicans today who proudly call themselves neoconservatives?

I rarely, if ever see anyone refer to themselves in such terms in the current era, perhaps aside from Irving Kristol's son himself. It is almost always an external label applied to an individual or group of individuals, generally as a perjorative.

[Zen-like Todd]

Why should anyone support the neocons? They've been wrong about EVERYTHING. At this point, it would be like Jim Zorn asking Steve Spurrier how to succeed in the NFL.

Hooper proves my point about the "neocon" boogeyman catchall.

[Hooper]

Except, you know, Bill Kristol proudly refers to himself as one and he, without question, has been 100 percent wrong about everything.

[Zen-like Todd]

Except, you know, Bill Kristol proudly refers to himself as one and he, without question, has been 100 percent wrong about everything.

Bill Kristol is Irving Kristol's son.

[Hooper]

Bill Kristol is Irving Kristol's son.

I know. Misread your post.

I'm an idiot.

But at least I'm right some of the time.

Unlike Bill Kristol.

[GibbsFactor]

Neo-Conservative is Liberalism without the liberty.

Neo-Conservative, in my opinion, is closer to fascism then any other political group in our country.

[twa]

Neoconservatism, at least according to some, isn't just about foreign policy. The belief that civil liberties must be largely ignored in the name of "homeland security" is often attributed to neoconservatism. Hell, the concept of a federal Department of Homeland Security, a Washington creation that costs huge amounts of money at a woefully inefficient pace, is attributed to neoconservatism, and is a decidedly liberal notion.

Wasn't the Dept of Homeland Security pushed on Bush by Dems?

Civil liberties are not be ignored,but they can become secondary to national security.

I am a Independent,but I'm sure most consider me a Neo-Con

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/11/25/homeland.security/

Bush initially resisted the idea of a new department, which had been championed primarily by Democrats in the wake of the attacks. But Bush embraced the concept in June and used the issue effectively on the campaign trail this past fall, criticizing Democrats who differed with him over the issue of labor rights within the new department.

[Fifty Gut]

Neocons are who destroyed the party. They are the ones pulling the strings of the puppet known as Bush. Among other neocon stances, they believe in maintaining the American empire at all costs, foreign and national. The Iraq war is a huge neocon cause. The idea of invading another sovereign nation for absolutely no just or moral reason is a neocon principle. America policing the world. :puke:

I used to root for the GOP but no longer. They are the party of conservatives no longer. To think, they used to fight big government and deficit spending. Now they're no better than liberals and Dems.

I'm an Indepedent from here on out.

[skinfan133]

heres a quick "iron triangle" to understand the relationship of todays ideologies with those of the past century:

-Todays Conservatives are yesterdays Liberals (aka neoconservatives)

-Todays Liberals are yesterdays Socialists

-Todays Libertarians (more or less, sometimes definatly not in some cases) are yesterdays conservatives.

in a nutshell, of course that is extremely simplistic, but it helps for those who have no idea whats going on with "neoconservative." the term really refers to those on the left in the 70's that got disillusioned with the Democrats foriegn policy, and went over to the republicans

[Zen-like Todd]

heres a quick "iron triangle" to understand the relationship of todays ideologies with those of the past century:

-Todays Conservatives are yesterdays Liberals (aka neoconservatives)

-Todays Liberals are yesterdays Socialists

-Todays Libertarians (more or less, sometimes definatly not in some cases) are yesterdays conservatives.

in a nutshell, of course that is extremely simplistic, but it helps for those who have no idea whats going on with "neoconservative." the term really refers to those on the left in the 70's that got disillusioned with the Democrats foriegn policy, and went over to the republicans

Meh. Even if you're being simplistic, you left out the evangelical base.