Hubbs Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'm looking at taking the LSATs this fall, and would rather not blow $1,000 on a prep class. I'm trying to research the best information and strategies myself, and would love any help that the lawyers, law students, and Texas-based Presidents on this board could offer. Aside from general suggestions, one thing I've noticed in a bit of early research is that many of the questions taken from previous tests focus on picking the "best" answer out of multiple choices. Aside from being perhaps the most infuriating testing tactic of all time, I'm guessing that there's a general method used for creating a "best" answer for this specific test. Does anyone know what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 as for taking the test, how motivated and driven are you? Ignore your undergrad grades, are you a disciplined person? Can you buy the books and commit yourself to studying for 2-3 hours a day, 5 days a week for at least 3 months? If you plan on taking them in September, start studying NOW! If you don't think you can discipline yourself well, then sign up for the class. The class is just basically disciplining yourself for you. I would reccomend PowerScore or TestMasters, Kaplan or Princeton Review do not buy the rights to actual questions, which can make a noticable difference. I did not think the test was that hard, even though my score was not that high either. It's a practice test, repetition is obviously the best way to improve your score. In addition to your own reviewing, you want to do a practice test at least once a week in the first month or few, and maybe up it to twice a week the final two months. Go do one every morning the week of the test. Again, a class will make you do practice tests all the time as well. I'm not sure as to your other question, but usually what's best is always finding the wrong answers first, then go from there. My advice, buy a practice test, preferrably the most recent (like January of 2008). Time yourself and do it. If you are happy with your score based on a school you'd like to attend, then individual practicing may be enough (say above a 155 at least). But if you score something below a 152 (the average), a class may be good, especially if individual work is not yielding much improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I am wondering when i should take the GMAT. I just graduated and am starting my job next week. If i plan to go back to school, it will be for night schools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Mr. S, exactly what would you spend that much time studying? I've talked to a couple people who have taken it, and they said it was all about reasoning ability, which the LSAT website and other sites like Princeton Review confirm. It's possible to train yourself with that, sure, but I honestly don't even think there's 20 hours a week of material out there for that. Not that I'm disagreeing with you - if there's studying to be done, I want to do it. But the people I know who took it all said that it was really hard to figure out what to tell me to study for it, and the info I can find only suggests some relatively basic material that, without tooting my own horn, wouldn't be anything but review for me. Other than the obvious LSAT prep book or two, what else is out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buenosdiaz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 i'm applying to law school this fall too, and studying is a pain I may sign up for some classes if you find any deals let me know (not that a prospective law student would normally help out another) haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I took the LSAT this past Monday. It sucks. I took the Kaplan course, it was expensive, but worth it once you take a look at the ****ing Logic Games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245320 That is an example of an LSAT logic game......an easy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyConway Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I highly recommend all Powerscore materials. If you don't want to spend $1000 on their class you should think about picking up their Logical Reasoning Bible and Logic Games bible. You can also usually find older versions at your local library. Also take as many practive exams as possible. Another decent investment is the the Silent Timer. Unfortunately you won't be able to use it during the actual exam but if you make it a habit of using it during practice exams and exercises it will surely improve your timing. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Kaplan is the standard choice for test prep. If you are taking the test, the money for the prep is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I didn't take a class. Instead I bought a cd (maybe produced by Princeton Review) that included a couple practice tests and some general info. It did the trick and I did well. Not great, but in the range I was shooting for that made me very likely candidate to get into UGA law, which was exactly what I wanted. Consider: How good are your grades? Any good job/life experience? Where do you want to go to lawschool? In other words, how much are you banking on this test? Put some thought in to where you want to go to lawschool as well. Living in Atlanta, Emory has more prestige for people who don't know any better, but most of the top partners went to UGA, the schools were about on par, and I saved $60k+ in tuition by going to a state school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 PleaseBlitz, got any quick examples of some of the harder logic games, the ones that apparently drove you up a wall? It's those that I'm worried about most (obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_Edwards_Fan Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I know the cost is a hurdle, but I highly recomend taking a class... so much of it is about beating the test not just knowing the answers. I guess it comes down to what you would be satisfied with score wise and decide how much time you are willing to commit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I never took a class, but that was mostly because I didn't have the time for it. I got a book, got through a few chapters, and ended up doing reasonably well. My recommendation to you would be to find a good practice test, and see how you do. If you feel pretty comfortable with it, just buy a book or something. Looking at isolated problems isn't really that useful because a big part of the test is the time pressure. Just go through a practice and see how your score comes out. If you feel like there are more things you could learn, then you should consider signing up for a class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 See, I'm a bit reluctant on the class because I took one for the SAT, and it was a total waste. I learned absolutely nothing from it. What goes on in an LSAT class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 See, I'm a bit reluctant on the class because I took one for the SAT, and it was a total waste. I learned absolutely nothing from it. What goes on in an LSAT class? The Kaplan course is very structured. They have a 4 or 5 step method for each of the 3 types of questions. I was already scoring 90%+ on the logical reasoning questions, and have always done extremely well on reading comprehension-type standarized tests. When i first took a practice test, i got about 35% of the logic games right, at the end i was getting them about 70% right. I still ****ing hate those with a burning passion. :laugh: And honestly, i didnt really put much effort into the class. Right now im debating whether i want to take the test again in a few months. I havent gotten my score yet, but i dont think i did as well as i was expecting to. I think i blew one of the games. The other BIG adavantage of the Kaplan course was just preparing you for the test itself, not just the questions. I was at Georgetown Law from 9:30 to 5:30 on monday. 8 hours of testing and dealing with idiots that arent prepared is grueling and they help to prepare you for it. It probably helps add a point or 2 to someones score, and 2 points could be crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 See, I'm a bit reluctant on the class because I took one for the SAT, and it was a total waste. I learned absolutely nothing from it. What goes on in an LSAT class? For what to study, i bought the powerscore materials. I put in about 2 hours every day, and did a practice on the weekends. Basically I'd just slowly go through their books, the Logical Reasoning Bible, and the Games Bible, or whatever they're called. They're expensive, but it sure beats paying the $1200 if you take the course. Basically, my initial test scores were low, so I just wanted to do more practice. As I mentioned, practice makes perfect on this test. As already mentioned, take the most recent practice, score yourself, and see where you stand. Maybe take two to have some variety. See what sections were your strongest and weakest, buy some books, and go nuts. I did take this weekend PowerScore class. The teacher I had was really good, and since I was already studying the materials, it was good to just have someone further entrench this material in my head, sort of like a quick refresher. The book they give for that also has more problems/exercises, which do help. This course was about $350. If you don't think Kaplan helped for the SAT, then either it really didn't help, it wasn't taught the best way for you, or you weren't as disciplined as you thought. Oh, btw, on testday, the test is all mental by that point. Stay calm, eat a nice breakfast, the usual. A cool head can easily improve your score by up to 5 points, and I'm not joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I was already scoring 90%+ on the logical reasoning questions, and have always done extremely well on reading comprehension-type standarized tests. When i first took a practice test, i got about 35% of the logic games right, at the end i was getting them about 70% right. I still ****ing hate those with a burning passion. :laugh: And honestly, i didnt really put much effort into the class. Right now im debating whether i want to take the test again in a few months. I havent gotten my score yet, but i dont think i did as well as i was expecting to. I think i blew one of the games. Do they still do the "experimental" section or whatever, where one of the sections of the exam isn't graded at all but is for some other purpose (cruelty, I think)? Mine was a games section. You never know which one it is, but we had one too many games sections. I spent the next two months praying that it was the one game I wasn't able to get off the ground at all. That's the great thing about the GMAT (which I took right after college, when I wasn't sure what I wanted to do later). You get your score right away. Like, within 1 minute of when you finish the exam. That and it's about 1/10th the difficulty of the LSAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Do they still do the "experimental" section or whatever, where one of the sections of the exam isn't graded at all but is for some other purpose (cruelty, I think)? Mine was a games section. You never know which one it is, but we had one too many games sections. I spent the next two months praying that it was the one game I wasn't able to get off the ground at all.That's the great thing about the GMAT (which I took right after college, when I wasn't sure what I wanted to do later). You get your score right away. Like, within 1 minute of when you finish the exam. That and it's about 1/10th the difficulty of the LSAT Yep. Mine was an extra games section, and yes, its just to be cruel. Same thing happened to me, i aced one, screwed up the other. Talking with people afterwards, i figured out that the one i ****ed up is the one that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Pablo Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 For a while, I was teaching a TestMasters course. If you choose to study independently, here's my advice to you (what I did): Buy every exam available and take them under test conditions. But first... Spend the majority of your time observing the logical reasoning sections. Before you work through the questions themselves, spend some time examining the questions and find out what they're truly asking for. *Next, read up on logical constructs (if...then statements, all vs. some, and every possible iteration of these words including their recipricol meanings).* You will find that there are some question types that are featured more frequently than others. For the reading comprehension sections, keep in mind the theme/central point, sub-themes, argument structure, and verbal flourishes while reading. Passages usually involve the law, humanities, science, and history. If you have no interest in reading about these subjects, I'd suggest developing one ASAP. In terms of questions on the exam, this section has the second most questions, so ration your studying correctly. As for the logic games, they are the easiest portion of the exam. Trust me on this. If you spend enough time on them, you will find that the majority of this section is just creating a grid outline such that you can plug in data to get answers. Practice makes perfect. Some of the games you might encounter are sequential ordering, grouping, and some combination of the two. Advice for the exam itself- DO NOT READ THE QUESTION BEFORE READING THE STIMULUS FIRST (all sections). Reading the questions first takes up far too much time and you'll find yourself re-reading the question anyway. Also, always question the material as you read; nothing on the exam is superfluous, yet a lot of it can throw you off. Seriously, spend a lot of time with logical constructs for the logical reasoning section. You should know what these two statements mean, and how they translate into text- X => ~Y, Y, thus ~X All X are Y, Some X are Z, thus Some Y are Z Also note that 'some', 'many', and 'a few' all mean the same thing, as in at least one. Whereas terms like 'most' and 'a majority' mean more than 50%. The opposite holds true for 'less than half' or 'minority' (when dealing with two groups). I wish you luck and hopefully this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Buy every exam available and take them under test conditions. I have 6 full length exams. Lets start the bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 I have 6 full length exams. Lets start the bidding. How'd you get your hands on those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 How'd you get your hands on those? Kaplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I have 6 full length exams. Lets start the bidding. So what are we starting at Considering taking the LSAT. Just to see how I'd do. Have no current plans to torture myself unneccessarily...I mean go to law school however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Yep. Mine was an extra games section, and yes, its just to be cruel. Same thing happened to me, i aced one, screwed up the other. Talking with people afterwards, i figured out that the one i ****ed up is the one that counts. How could you figure it out? I thought it was top secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 How could you figure it out? I thought it was top secret If you have a decent memory and a few other people to work it out with, its possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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