Cerrato says DL, OL were first consideration

[rk3025]

We will see if Palmero is right that Campbell is not worth a damn

So we take a TE that has questionable character and was known to not have a work ethic.

That's awesome......

[stevenaa]

Originally Posted by meek

The front office of this team is so full of BS its unbelievable. Everything is just so much spin its not even worth paying attention to anymore. Just yesterday, not even 24 hours ago, Cerrato got on TV and stated that they were very pleased with the draft in large part because every time they traded down they ended up still getting the same guy they targeted with the original pick. So which is it??? It can't be both. Some of us may be homers and drink the burgundy & gold Kool-Aid but enough is enough, they take us for fools.

Obviously, if we just missed out on DL players that we wanted to draft, then we did not get the guy we originially planned on taking. The 2 are mutually exclusive. Cerrato either lied through his teeth or the latest report about wanting Dlinemen is a lie.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

Not at all, because that only applies to Devon Thomas, Justin Tryon, and Durant Brooks, who were all the next guy they picked after they traded. For the other picks (and the ones where we traded out of, like in the 5th round where Zorn said that there was a LB we were targeting that was picked before the pick), that is very much possible.

Jason

Quotes taken from thread: http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245836&page=10&pp=15

Please excuse me if this comes across as a call-out post, that is not my intent. I think Jason made a valid point at the time, but one which is further undermined by this latest comment from Vinny. Instead, my goal is to keep track of all the pieces that continue to come out of Vinny's mouth in the aftermath of the draft to illustrate the fact that this FO continues to try and blow smoke up our butts.

Vinny appeared on Redskins radio in the week leading up to the draft and made a comment to the effect of Merling being rated very highly on their board and that they though he would be gone somewhere around pick 15 of the 1st round. Now, somethings got to give here.

Was Merling really evaluated by the team as a top 15 pick or was that a lie?

Did we really get the same player that we originally intended to each time we traded down or was that a lie?

Were OL and DL really our first considerations or was that a lie?

I realize that some people don't care that we get fed constant spin jobs from the front office, but I for one am growing tired of it. Those of us living in the DC area have to deal with it enough already from the politicians.

You need to come to grips with the fact that this is the same for all teams. None of them show their hands. It's is as much about not letting other teams know their intentions as anything. It only stings because they've been so bad for so long. If this team was winning, and the FO was in the same spin mode, you wouldn't care a bit. Winning cures all.

[Delta1-5]

I don't mind the WR picks. Although Kelly seems to blame everyone else for his shortcomings rather than just strapping down and getting it done.

I would have liked to have seen an Oline or Dline pick.

We'll see how it pans out.

[Bonez3]

There was a definite rush on OL, somewhat unexpectedly. The DL all were iffy to start.

Great Draft!

[Taylor 36]

Oh, the wanna-be GM's keep surfacing. We all know the sky is falling. We all understand that the key of the game is to have an OL that can block for thirty seconds straight so that our QB can get sacked anyway because he doesn't have large enough targets to get the ball to, right?

Why can't some people just chill out and actually wait and see how things come together? We are in a new era. Let it take shape.

[Ruggala]

Really? Then why did we take two receivers and a tight end (who has chronic sleep syndrome)?

[Delta1-5]

Oh, the wanna-be GM's keep surfacing. We all know the sky is falling. We all understand that the key of the game is to have an OL that can block for thirty seconds straight so that our QB can get sacked anyway because he doesn't have large enough targets to get the ball to, right?

Why can't some people just chill out and actually wait and see how things come together? We are in a new era. Let it take shape.

I agree.

It's pure conjecture at this point.

But, you can't deny that Oline and Dline are a concern.

Just would have liked to have picked one up early.

[fansince62]

Oh, the wanna-be GM's keep surfacing. We all know the sky is falling. We all understand that the key of the game is to have an OL that can block for thirty seconds straight so that our QB can get sacked anyway because he doesn't have large enough targets to get the ball to, right?

Why can't some people just chill out and actually wait and see how things come together? We are in a new era. Let it take shape.

does this record have a scratch on it? I keep hearing the same riff.....year...after year...after year...after year...after year...........

chill? it's gotten downright frosty after 15 years of excuses and simple-minded rationalizations....FOR FAILURE

[[[ghost]]]

Really? Then why did we take two receivers and a tight end (who has chronic sleep syndrome)?

Because if you would have read, then you'd know that the OL and DL we felt were worth taking were gone right before we picked.

[ADF]

I wouldn't be shocked if they were aiming for Merling, Laws & Kelly. I bet they were hoping for one of the tackles to fall to them in the first.

[SkinsFanAnt]

The only "old" guy we have on our d-line is Daniels. For some reason, fans are using him as a representative for what this team's d-line is like.

I guess it fits their agenda.

I just don't see where the lines are "being ignored for years and years".

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Daniels in ineffective as a pass rusher and Evans is still second string material.

What agenda?...the one where we want this team to play better in the trenches?

Look at the recent drafts back to 2003 and see how many lineman we've taken compared to the consistantly successful teams in the NFL....and then, you'll be able to see.

[JimmyConway]

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Daniels in ineffective as a pass rusher and Evans is still second string material.

What agenda?...the one where we want this team to play better in the trenches?

Look at the recent drafts back to 2003 and see how many lineman we've taken compared to the consistantly successful teams in the NFL....and then, you'll be able to see.

I would have to agree with you for the most part. We haven't spent as many picks as I would like on the DL while most better teams right now have.

However IMO our D-line produces a sufficient amount of pressure on the QB and I sincerely believe we'll get better this year. And don't worry about future drafts because we'll probably spend future 1st rounders on D (hopefully stud DEs).

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

Hasn't this issue already been discussed enough?

[Chief skin]

I would have liked, prefered line help on either side of the ball but, this draft was the best they have done since Danny and Vinny came to town. That is high praise coming from me because I can't stand the 2 clowns

[artmonkforHOF]

Cerrato was on the John Riggins show this afternoon--he basically told Riggins they were looking DL, then OL, but all the linemen they had rated high enough (the ones that would constitute an "upgrade" was the term he used I think) were gone by the Skins' spots in the draft.

well they where gone after they traded down and starting making dumb picks.

I also heard Vinny on the NFL network say that more than once, they where about to pick a lineman but he went in the picks just before the ones they had.

Merling was there at 21.-but wasnt there at #34.

Campbell was there at #48 but not at 51.

Quentin Groves was there at either 48 or 51.

I think Jeremy Thompson was a guy they where looking at with #103, but he was picekd at 102 by GB.

The only other DL to go a pick or so before the skins is Erik Walden in the 6th round to Dallas 1 pick before us, but I dont think he was one of our guys since most consider him too small to play DE and is more of an OLB in 3-4.

Now what got my goat is trading the 21 pick with 2 guys who had top 20 first round grades on them availbe in Merling and Mendenhall. The Mendenhall pick would have suprised me but I could at least get behind the logic of BPA.But then after getting a WR at #34, I figured we would be taking one of the second tier DL prospects like Laws, Campbell or Groves.

In my opinion if you dont go after a DE with the 21 pick, you should have gone after Groves or Campbell or whatever DE you wanted at 48 and then use 51 for BPA, not use the #48 for BPA like the skins claim they did. Or even if they did have Davis as the BPA, it makes no sense not to go after Thompson at #96 and let him slip if they where looking at him and instead take a G who was a stretch at #96, when you still have not drafted a D lineman.

I dont think they managed the draft very well at all this year, but with Zorn's first year in I will cut him some slack on this one. Some will point to our lack of WR to justify taking two WR in the second round, but I still think you could have gotten good value from a WR in the 3rd round and use one of those 2nd round picks on something else, like D line or just an injection of youth at LB or in the secondary.

[Morneblade]

Chad Rinehart, Kerry Brown, and Rob Jackson were all impressive acquisitions IMO... We did anything but ignore the O-Line and we helped the D-Line.

How did we help the D-line? a 260 lbs DE that cant rush the passer? Not much help there....

[Flycoach]

I've been down on this FO for a long time. But for the first time I can say, I feel that they did a good job. I'm happy with the draft for the first time in years. Many people on this board don't agree with the first 3 picks, but based on the talent that was there I agree with Cerrato.

I'm with you. I used to be a big Vinny Basher, but no more. :applause:

[SkinsGuy]

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Daniels in ineffective as a pass rusher and Evans is still second string material.

What agenda?...the one where we want this team to play better in the trenches?

Look at the recent drafts back to 2003 and see how many lineman we've taken compared to the consistantly successful teams in the NFL....and then, you'll be able to see.

I don't even think Evans will be in that much of the rotation.

And there is more to line play than "rushing the passer". If all you focus on is sacks, then you don't understand d-line play.

The agenda I speak of is those in the whiny peanut gallery who spread falsehoods that this team has "ignored" the lines so they can go on for page after page that Cerrato and Snyder don't know what they are doing, as if they have all the answers.

As I showed in another posts, most of the linemen playing for the defense this season are young guys, which shows that the idea that line help has been ignored for years is a complete LIE.

Only someone with an agenda (or just a complete idiot) would keep perpetuating these falsehoods as if they were fact.

The simple fact is, as I showed in my other post, the Redskins have adressed the lines (both of them), and have not ignored them.

Maybe they didn't go after d-line players in this draft some of the wanna-be GMs on this board coveted, but many of them ranted when the Redskins took Landry last year.

Look at how that is working out.

But, of course, the Redskins' FO was just lucky there.... they deserve no credit for that, right? :laugh:

[Morneblade]

I would have to agree with you for the most part. We haven't spent as many picks as I would like on the DL while most better teams right now have.

However IMO our D-line produces a sufficient amount of pressure on the QB and I sincerely believe we'll get better this year. And don't worry about future drafts because we'll probably spend future 1st rounders on D (hopefully stud DEs).

Our line doesnt do very well, look at the stats. We also fail to get anything up the middle to collapse the pocket. And with Blache not putting an enphasis on sack or pressure, dont bet on an improvment. Especially with guys a year older (Daniels, Griff) and and no changes made. And dont hold your breath on taking a DE in the first round. It's been 10 years since we did and Vinny is on record for not wanting to spend a high draft choice in the DL. At this point if we take on earlier than the 5th, I'll be shocked.

[DieselPwr44]

Yes, yes. Hate on the man b/c the Redskins (GASP!) didn't follow your gameplan. Whatever it is. :doh:

Of course, if the linemen you are whining and pining for busts out, you won't come here and admit you were wrong. You'll just find some obscure undrafted one that's playing well for a team and wonder why the Redskins didn't use their 7th round selection on him... the fools. :laugh:

You can set your watch by the "geniuses" on this board.

When you watch the games in September and wonder why the opposition has all day to throw, I don't want to see one post from you complaining about the lack of a pass rush.

[Taylor 36]

does this record have a scratch on it? I keep hearing the same riff.....year...after year...after year...after year...after year...........

chill? it's gotten downright frosty after 15 years of excuses and simple-minded rationalizations....FOR FAILURE

Interesting, because our current owner hasn't been here for 15 years, never mind this FO structure. The very first draft with this owner we took an OL with the #3 pick in the draft. I guess we're going back down that road that sounds like a cracked record around here...you know, the one about how everything is Snyder and Vinnie's fault though we have been in poor shape for longer than either of them has been here.

[Morneblade]

I don't even think Evans will be in that much of the rotation.

And there is more to line play than "rushing the passer". If all you focus on is sacks, then you don't understand d-line play.

When you're not getting it, it's something to focus on. And it's not just about sacks, it's pressure and everything it causes. INT's, 3 and outs, fumbles. Stuff we dont do well. Things that shorten the field for the Offense and gets the Defense off the field quickly.

The agenda I speak of is those in the whiny peanut gallery who spread falsehoods that this team has "ignored" the lines so they can go on for page after page that Cerrato and Snyder don't know what they are doing, as if they have all the answers.

As I showed in another posts, most of the linemen playing for the defense this season are young guys, which shows that the idea that line help has been ignored for years is a complete LIE.

BS. I'd bet if we spent no earlier than a 5th round pick on a WR, or brought some guy in from the freakin CFL, or a couple of old guys in we would be accused of not doing anything for the WR position. People here would be LIVID. Heck, in the past 3 years we got two young WRs that had good years on other teams and spend 2 2nd round draft choices to upgrade the WR position. Get it? There hasnt been a PRIOITY on the line in years. Priority meaning, we have to try to get a good player in here. Spending a 2nd or 3rd rounder maybe. Maybe even a 1st. We dont do that, and it shows.

Only someone with an agenda (or just a complete idiot) would keep perpetuating these falsehoods as if they were fact.

The simple fact is, as I showed in my other post, the Redskins have adressed the lines (both of them), and have not ignored them.

Or you have an agenda, who knows. Late round draft choices and guys from the CFL isnt termed "addressing" by most clubs. It's finding some depth...maybe. Not looking for starters.

Maybe they didn't go after d-line players in this draft some of the wanna-be GMs on this board coveted, but many of them ranted when the Redskins took Landry last year.

Look at how that is working out.

But, of course, the Redskins' FO was just lucky there.... they deserve no credit for that, right? :laugh:

No one thought that Landry wasnt a good player, but the saftey position is well......the least important in the defence. And it was a luxury pick, untill Sean died. Yeah it looks good now, but having a stud on the line would help the team even more.

[TheLongshot]

Merling was there at 21.-but wasnt there at #34.

Campbell was there at #48 but not at 51.

Quentin Groves was there at either 48 or 51.

I think Jeremy Thompson was a guy they where looking at with #103, but he was picekd at 102 by GB.

The only other DL to go a pick or so before the skins is Erik Walden in the 6th round to Dallas 1 pick before us, but I dont think he was one of our guys since most consider him too small to play DE and is more of an OLB in 3-4.

You forgot about Laws, who was picked the pick before 48.

Scratch off Groves, because I doubt that the Skins were interested in picking up another undersized DE that high. I think the main players, based on what I've been hearing out of Vinny, was probably Merling and Laws. They were looking for a guy who could help out in the middle, but didn't find the right guy.

As I said, I think Laws was the only guy that they were really interested in. If they had wanted Campbell, they would have selected him at 48. Even if he was there, I don't think they would have selected him with 51.

In my opinion if you dont go after a DE with the 21 pick, you should have gone after Groves or Campbell or whatever DE you wanted at 48 and then use 51 for BPA, not use the #48 for BPA like the skins claim they did. Or even if they did have Davis as the BPA, it makes no sense not to go after Thompson at #96 and let him slip if they where looking at him and instead take a G who was a stretch at #96, when you still have not drafted a D lineman.

You are assuming that the Skins had Thompson rated higher. What "draft experts" rate guys isn't always the way teams see things. Also, I think OL was probably a bigger need than DL. We at least have a good core of young players on the DL, which is more than you can say for the OL.

Course, had we picked Thompson, we would have gotten comments like this:

How did we help the D-line? a 260 lbs DE that cant rush the passer? Not much help there....

You must not have read JimmiJo's report on him on the fact that he looked like he had good burst off the line. There might be more to him than what appears at first glance, particularly since there is very little information on him.

Our line doesnt do very well, look at the stats. We also fail to get anything up the middle to collapse the pocket. And with Blache not putting an enphasis on sack or pressure, dont bet on an improvment. Especially with guys a year older (Daniels, Griff) and and no changes made. And dont hold your breath on taking a DE in the first round. It's been 10 years since we did and Vinny is on record for not wanting to spend a high draft choice in the DL. At this point if we take on earlier than the 5th, I'll be shocked.

So, I guess Montgomery and Golston can't improve? That with all the guys in camp that no one is going to step up and be a better player?

Improvement doesn't always come from adding players. Sometimes it comes from within.

Jason

[TheLongshot]

No one thought that Landry wasnt a good player, but the saftey position is well......the least important in the defence. And it was a luxury pick, untill Sean died. Yeah it looks good now, but having a stud on the line would help the team even more.

Actually, look around the league. Having a big, fast safety is becoming a bigger trend nowadays, especially with all the pass catching TEs that have become popular. Picking a safety in the top 10 is no longer a silly thing to do.

Also, I don't think it is a "luxury" to pick great players no matter what their position. It is what should be done if at all possible.

Jason

[SkinsGuy]

When you watch the games in September and wonder why the opposition has all day to throw, I don't want to see one post from you complaining about the lack of a pass rush.

When you watch the games in September, and see us scoring in the redzone when we had major trouble with that last year, I don't want to see you pretending that you knew all along that these draft picks were the right ones.