Cerrato says DL, OL were first consideration

[turbodiesel#44]

To put it simply I agree with you, if you make the "At that position" read, "At those positions", because teams always have multiple needs.

"A position of need" can be plural too if your needs encompass more than one position. If two guys fall to you at different positions of similar need, you grab the better value. That's a no brainer. We are on the same page there.

My problem with all the guys parroting "BPA" is not the fact you need to consider the players value, it's the ignorance they have of building your team to be stronger. If the BPA sits the bench or displaces a similar talent who can't be cut or traded due to cap concerns, you will continue to expose your weaknesses and they will continue to be exploited, resulting in still more losses.

Vinny says DL was our first consideration? DL wasn't even our last consideration.

[TheLongshot]

The Patriots were trying hard to deal up for Taylor that year.

I don't remember that, but that doesn't mean it can't be true. Course, most trade rumors are just that, rumors. Course, even if we do that trade, there is no guarantee that Wilfork would be the pick. I remember many people that year being really high on Kenechi Udeze, and he's been nothing but a disappointment.

I still think keeping the pick and selecting Taylor was the right move. The guy was so obviously special that you had to take him.

As for '07. Adams was seen as a Simeon Rice type, Anderson did worry people, but Okoye was seen as an elite prospect, the only real worry was his youth. I loved Okoye, and to me, w/Taylor already there, it made sense to get Okoye particularly since word was that the kid was not a Kwame Brown type, but rather very coachable, and very mature. You're right than Landry was the only guy really seen as essentially "can't miss" other than ball skills (which was interesting, noone seemed to think he was very good at that, yet in the biggest game of his life, he was all over Hasselback in coverage), but Okoye was nearly right there, and represented not only talent at an area of need, but also very very young talent, that would provide us a HUGE prime. Instead of peak years generally being about 25-29, we could get peak years from him from 21 or 22 to 29 which would have been amazing.

I still remember seeing "raw" in a lot of scouting reports for him. Personally, I liked him too and wouldn't have minded him being the pick, but in the end, Landry probably rated out higher. Course, that was probably driven by Williams, who really seems to like his safeties and liked the kind of flexibility that gave him as far as blitzing the QB.

One thing that I have noticed about the Redskins drafts is they tend to be very risk-adverse. They don't take many risks on their picks. Anyone who has some serious questions as well as serious potential upside usually doesn't get selected by the Skins.

Jason

[The Consigliere]

I don't remember that, but that doesn't mean it can't be true. Course, most trade rumors are just that, rumors. Course, even if we do that trade, there is no guarantee that Wilfork would be the pick. I remember many people that year being really high on Kenechi Udeze, and he's been nothing but a disappointment.

I still think keeping the pick and selecting Taylor was the right move. The guy was so obviously special that you had to take him.

I still remember seeing "raw" in a lot of scouting reports for him. Personally, I liked him too and wouldn't have minded him being the pick, but in the end, Landry probably rated out higher. Course, that was probably driven by Williams, who really seems to like his safeties and liked the kind of flexibility that gave him as far as blitzing the QB.

One thing that I have noticed about the Redskins drafts is they tend to be very risk-adverse. They don't take many risks on their picks. Anyone who has some serious questions as well as serious potential upside usually doesn't get selected by the Skins.

Jason

On pt. 1: It was substantiated by multiple sources. Could it be multiple source b.s.? Absolutely, but it does make some sense as that draft featured two different things they wanted, an elite free safety (even though they drafted Wilson a year earlier), and elite lineman like Will Smith, Tommie Harris, and the fast dropping Wilfork that they landed later. It also featured an elite TE that would have taken care of the need they later addressed w/Ben Watson in the very same draft.

As for Landry or Okoye. I always pick the lineman over the Safety. Safeties are much cheaper in free agency, and my secondary argument (that goes back to debates we had on here in Jan-April of '04 and again last year) was and is that quite often the 2nd to 3rd best safeties in a given draft, or 2nd tier safeties can be had on the cheap in round 2, try to find the 2nd or 3rd best DE or DT or even a second tier DL in round 2 in drafts? It just doesn't happen. They all get snapped up very, very fast and whats usually left in round 2 or later is injury prone or huge question types. Merling was better than that, this year, but I do think that Merling has a ceiling 10x lower that of Okoye or Adams last year (other than playing the run in comparison to Adams).

But again, two key things made me less inclined to absolutely like crazy. #1 I recognized that Landry wasn't a risk, in the way so many Raider-targeted DB's are in round 1, while all picks carry risk, he was very, very, very low risk, and secondly, once Taylor passed away, it became by horrible accident a position of need.

As to risk averse? I'm really not sure. It's certainly possible, but why then take so many pass catchers, and all 3 w/major questions (Thomas-one wyear wonder worry?, Davis-Idiot, and short for a TE and lacked burst and bulk, Kelly-Hall of Fame Idiot level, and slow).

[Taylor Made]

One thing that I have noticed about the Redskins drafts is they tend to be very risk-adverse. They don't take many risks on their picks. Anyone who has some serious questions as well as serious potential upside usually doesn't get selected by the Skins.

Jason

With Vinny in charge, it looks like the team is moving away from the low risk philosophy if this year is any indication. Granted, its too early to tell.

[TheLongshot]

On pt. 1: It was substantiated by multiple sources. Could it be multiple source b.s.? Absolutely, but it does make some sense as that draft featured two different things they wanted, an elite free safety (even though they drafted Wilson a year earlier), and elite lineman like Will Smith, Tommie Harris, and the fast dropping Wilfork that they landed later. It also featured an elite TE that would have taken care of the need they later addressed w/Ben Watson in the very same draft.

Again, I'm not saying that you are wrong, but that I don't remember that rumor. I tried doing some searches and I didn't come up with anything, but that doesn't mean the rumor wasn't true.

As for Landry or Okoye. I always pick the lineman over the Safety. Safeties are much cheaper in free agency, and my secondary argument (that goes back to debates we had on here in Jan-April of '04 and again last year) was and is that quite often the 2nd to 3rd best safeties in a given draft, or 2nd tier safeties can be had on the cheap in round 2, try to find the 2nd or 3rd best DE or DT or even a second tier DL in round 2 in drafts? It just doesn't happen. They all get snapped up very, very fast and whats usually left in round 2 or later is injury prone or huge question types. Merling was better than that, this year, but I do think that Merling has a ceiling 10x lower that of Okoye or Adams last year (other than playing the run in comparison to Adams).

I don't argue that it is somewhat easier to find Safeties than DL in FA. At the same time, there is a trend with going after bigger and faster Safeties, especially with the increasing role of the TE in NFL offenses. Those type of guys don't really grow on trees either. I think you are luck to find a couple of those guys in the whole draft.

As to risk averse? I'm really not sure. It's certainly possible, but why then take so many pass catchers, and all 3 w/major questions (Thomas-one wyear wonder worry?, Davis-Idiot, and short for a TE and lacked burst and bulk, Kelly-Hall of Fame Idiot level, and slow).

Actually, thats probably part of the reason WHY we took two WRs. While both have questions, it is likely that at least one of them will succeed.

I don't think Davis has serious questions other than being a blocker. I'm not concerned about the incident at mini-camp. There would need to be a lot more than that to worry me about him.

Jason

[drowland]

I don't know about the Pats, but Ernie Accorsi confirmed the Giants had a deal in place with Cleveland to move out of the #4 spot. The Browns were targeting Taylor. Right before Accorsi was about to call in the trade, AJ Smith called and said they'd deal Eli for Rivers and additional picks. The Browns then turned their attention to Winslow and moved up 1 spot to get him. Butch Davis was desperate to get one of the two.

[fansince62]

I guess I'm just a little confused by what's going on here. Last year our Defense was far superior to our offense, yet when we draft offense we're acting like what we have in place is already dominant.

Also if you looked at our needs heading into the draft you would have identified the following:

WR- Addressed

OL- Addressed with Reinhart and some potential sleepers in UDFA

DL- Not addressed although they did draft R. Jackson

CB- Addressed

Safety- Addressed

#3 QB- Addressed

Punter- Addressed

We addressed all our needs and a need in a #2 TE that the fans didn't realize existed due to the scheme that Zorn runs YET we're acting like the draft was a disaster. The fans need to get real; you can't make up for 4 years of draft inactivity in ONE DRAFT!! It's going to take Cerrato a couple of years to re-stock the team and it really is a 2-3 year process.

too bad most of these areas will be "needs" next draft as well!

[fansince62]

True, I'm only going by the numerous reports that claim he'll be on IR. If he camps and makes the team, I will gladly eat my words. Otherwise, bad pick.

moore wold have to recover quickly and make training camp to have ANY impact this upcoming season. he won't see the light of day if he misses training camp.

[TheLongshot]

too bad most of these areas will be "needs" next draft as well!

Maybe, maybe not. Even with the roster as it is right now, you never know who is going to impress in camp and who isn't. Yeah, we could mostly have the same list as this year, but it isn't likely.

That's why I find the "what are the needs for next season" threads a little silly. While some positions are nailed down, others are not, and things can get very fluid based on what happens. This time last year, we wouldn't have even thought that Safety would have been a need of sorts.

Jason

[TheLongshot]

moore wold have to recover quickly and make training camp to have ANY impact this upcoming season. he won't see the light of day if he misses training camp.

Just as an addendum, it does look like teams knew of the knee issue before the draft. My understanding was that he couldn't afford to get it done until after he was drafted and covered under the team. In any case, it doesn't sound serious and he's expected to make a full recovery. (The info comes from CPND's forum)

You are right, tho. If he misses significant time in training camp, he might end up on IR or start off on the practice squad. It is a little early, tho, to be calling that.

Jason

[turbodiesel#44]

moore wold have to recover quickly and make training camp to have ANY impact this upcoming season. he won't see the light of day if he misses training camp.

Agreed. The thing is, if you want productive DL out of the late rounds, you need a bunch of them and hope one learns to swim. A couple years down the road. It is unusual to get any real production out of any rookie DL unless they are early first round, or you are very lucky.

I thought a GM was supposed to look at the big picture, see that Daniels and Griffin weren't getting any younger, and finally begin the 2-3 year process it's going to take to replace them. Or back up Monty and Golston if they emerge, without buying an expensive FA. Vinny said all the right things like we're targeting DL, but picks a safety who hid an injury from us. I wonder what teams who passed on him figured it out? Bad scouting, bad pick.

I can understand Vinny using all the early picks to give Zorn a leg up on the new system, but Moore doen't help Zorn, Blache or anybody else.

[tritx3]

vinny actually did a good job, no point in reaching for a need. we got great value and we definitely upgraded our team. who here isn't excited about our offense for this upcoming season?!

[TheLongshot]

I thought a GM was supposed to look at the big picture, see that Daniels and Griffin weren't getting any younger, and finally begin the 2-3 year process it's going to take to replace them. Or back up Monty and Golston if they emerge, without buying an expensive FA. Vinny said all the right things like we're targeting DL, but picks a safety who hid an injury from us. I wonder what teams who passed on him figured it out? Bad scouting, bad pick.

You must have missed the post above where I did hear that teams knew about the injury. So, they knew about it and took him anyways because they liked him overall. Course, now you will probably complain that he's worthless because he might not be available this year.

Jason

[fansince62]

Maybe, maybe not. Even with the roster as it is right now, you never know who is going to impress in camp and who isn't. Yeah, we could mostly have the same list as this year, but it isn't likely.

That's why I find the "what are the needs for next season" threads a little silly. While some positions are nailed down, others are not, and things can get very fluid based on what happens. This time last year, we wouldn't have even thought that Safety would have been a need of sorts.

Jason

reason leads me to think otherwise...hope leads me to line up with you!

[fansince62]

Agreed. The thing is, if you want productive DL out of the late rounds, you need a bunch of them and hope one learns to swim. A couple years down the road. It is unusual to get any real production out of any rookie DL unless they are early first round, or you are very lucky.

I thought a GM was supposed to look at the big picture, see that Daniels and Griffin weren't getting any younger, and finally begin the 2-3 year process it's going to take to replace them. Or back up Monty and Golston if they emerge, without buying an expensive FA. Vinny said all the right things like we're targeting DL, but picks a safety who hid an injury from us. I wonder what teams who passed on him figured it out? Bad scouting, bad pick.

I can understand Vinny using all the early picks to give Zorn a leg up on the new system, but Moore doen't help Zorn, Blache or anybody else.

you're pointing to a concern of mine. In the end...I don't have a poblem with who the Skins drafted. Let's get the dang wideout problem fixed once and for all. that said, I just don't see how all the roster rotations work out so that you have a stable corps across the board (skill positions and line) to be able to make a Championship run.

[TheLongshot]

reason leads me to think otherwise...hope leads me to line up with you!

Reason and past experience tells me that figuring out who is going to make the roster before training camp is a futile effort. I did post a thread on a "lineup", but I don't claim any real knowledge on that or knowing how the young players that we have shake down. All I know is how many candidates we have at certain positions and their relative strengths.

Jason

[NattyLight]

As soon as Brandon Albert and Rodgers Cromartie were out, I think their choice was easy. There was no other PLAYER available that was worth the spot. I too, say good-job by the FO.

[turbodiesel#44]

you're pointing to a concern of mine. In the end...I don't have a poblem with who the Skins drafted. Let's get the dang wideout problem fixed once and for all. that said, I just don't see how all the roster rotations work out so that you have a stable corps across the board (skill positions and line) to be able to make a Championship run.

Overall, I'm OK with the draft. It is specifically the IR safety and the punter that I think were a waste, and that negates any value gained with our tradedown. Considering that, we could have had a DL roster contender for camp. Instead, we have a couple UDFA's. The title to this thread wasn't dreamed up by the OP, I saw Vinny say it himself on video. Vinny either lied, or we showed incompetence if DL was actually our first consideration. I refuse to believe there was no DL in the entire NFL draft that couldn't have helped the team more than a 6th rounder S on IR and a punter who looks like he was separated from his cub scout troop.