zoony Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Does Bin Laden speak for all Muslims? no, but I'm pretty certain he speaks for the 9-11 hijackers, the bombers of the USS Cole, the bombers of the embassies in Africa, etc. Not sure what you're getting at, other than dancing around. I certainly hope you're not trying to build a strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Yeah I think this website is trying to make like America is going to have the same problems France and Spain will have. Propaganda, then. The site goes into other details about immigration that have nothing to do with religion or Islam. btw, my boyfriend did not become a Christian until October 2007. I love me some immigrants. :laugh: Okay then.Spain and France happen to be very close to Muslim countries in North Africa, so Algeria, Tunisia, and Morroco are basically their version of Mexico, Jamaica, or the Dominican Republic. Most of their immigrants are Muslim, while most of our immigrants are Christian. Also, immigration policies in continental Europe have generally been much less friendly than those in the United States or Canada ... France and Spain have typically denied citizenship to their immigrants, which has led to the creation of isolated ghettos with resentful populations. The influence of radical Islam in those areas has created the kind of violence we see there. There are more illegal immigrants in the United States than in any European country, but you don't see Mexicans setting cars on fire. Part of that is a religious/cultural issue, and part of it is policy ... in any case, the relationship between American immigration and terrorism is a pretty weak one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 my bones weren't chilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 no, but I'm pretty certain he speaks for the 9-11 hijackers, the bombers of the USS Cole, the bombers of the embassies in Africa, etc.Not sure what you're getting at, other than dancing around. I certainly hope you're not trying to build a strawman. I don't know any reasonable person who doesn't think Bin Laden and his cronies are a threat that needs to be exterminated. But, unlike the OP and her video, I don't think it's reasonable to extend that threat to encompass all Muslims, and then all immigrants. She is the one who claimed there is something inherently threathening in Islam itself that is different from Christianity. She claimed that only Muslims suicide bomb, or engage of acts of terror. That is patently false. My personal view is that militant Islamic fundamentalism is the greatest threat to peace in the 21st century. But the worst way of dealing with this real threat is to treat one billion people on this planet as our enemy. And compounding the problem is to bundle that idiocy with a xenophobic hatred of all immigrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 But, unlike the OP and her video, I don't think it's reasonable to extend that threat to encompass all Muslims, and then all immigrants. see... you're lumping me in with the OP. That's where my strawman argument came from. I didn't even watch the video... no real desire to. I can pretty much guess what it's all about My only point was to challenge the thought that McVeigh/Ireland violence are the same as radical muslim violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 see... you're lumping me in with the OP. That's where my strawman argument came from. I didn't even watch the video... no real desire to. I can pretty much guess what it's all about I thought we were talking about the OP and her argument. Perhaps you should start a different thread. My only point was to challenge the thought that McVeigh/Ireland violence are the same as radical muslim violence. They are certainly the same as violence practiced by some radical Muslims, but I agree that Bin Laden is motivated by a different cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I thought we were talking about the OP and her argument. Perhaps you should start a different thread. nah... one of the things that makes ES great is that if you throw out a bad argument, someone will most likely call you on it. There were 1000 reasons to dislike that video, or disagree with the OP. You just happened to choose an argument that didn't make sense. *edit* cant type, going to bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 There were 1000 reasons to dislike that video, or disagree with the OP. You just happened to choose evidence that didn't make sense. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 While I agree the video is over the top your understanding of the Monroe Doctrine and it's use seems a bit off ...but maybe you just read it instead of seeing how we used it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine I know people have twisted what it was meant for, but the basic premise of the doctrine was to present our country as being against colonialism. . .do you agree? Heck, in the first line from the link you posted. . .The doctrine's authors, especially Thomas Jefferson, saw it as a proclamation by the United States of moral opposition to colonialism that is the interpretation I have, not how others used single lines to justify an imperialistic venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Perhaps. On the website it states the purpose of the video: disclose the threat of radical islam, address the immigration crisis, and the terrorists' ultimate goal of destroying America. A terrorist's ultimate goal is not to destroy America, it is to get us out of their back yard. It is to stop our imperialistic ventures into their neck of the woods. It has nothing to do with hating America, or our culture, but instead how our government acts on our behalf. A good tip. Yet what makes you so sure this particular video (or website for that matter), besides using the word "protect", wants to initiate attack on another country? Because i know how propaganda works, and what the motivation of others is. I know what their position is on Iran, and they are trying to justify invading yet another country. They do this without stating their motives, and instead present a threat to our country as immediate and urgent. Look at how Iraq was presented to us, and look at what they tried to sell the American public as a bill of goods. We won't fall for the same trick again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 That metamorphosedd family at the end reminds me of my Muslim neighbors. They brought a package over to my house last year, on Christmas no less. It supposedly has one of those fancy cake holders inside of it. It hasn't exploded yet, but from what I understand, if you turn the cake dome upside down it can double as a punch bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 A terrorist's ultimate goal is not to destroy America, it is to get us out of their back yard. It is to stop our imperialistic ventures into their neck of the woods. It has nothing to do with hating America, or our culture, but instead how our government acts on our behalf. QUOTE] So the ultimate goal of the "radical extremists" (not just the middle east), is not to destroy Israel and the United States.. I would disagree. Sharia law at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Are you suggesting that SkinsHokieFan, and other Muslims on this board, are lying or just misinformed when they argue that Islam is not about hatred? You're beautiful when you defend religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrhetzler Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 There's some serious mongering going on here. Hate-mongering, War-mongering, Fear-mongering... Are you a Fish-monger, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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