NY Times: The US has has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.

[heyholetsgogrant]

American Exception

Inmate Count in U.S. Dwarfs Other Nations’

By ADAM LIPTAK

Published: April 23, 2008

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.

This series of articles examines commonplace aspects of the American justice system that are actually unique in the world.

Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.

The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation, according to data maintained by the International Center for Prison Studies at King’s College London.

China, which is four times more populous than the United States, is a distant second, with 1.6 million people in prison. (That number excludes hundreds of thousands of people held in administrative detention, most of them in China’s extrajudicial system of re-education through labor, which often singles out political activists who have not committed crimes.)

San Marino, with a population of about 30,000, is at the end of the long list of 218 countries compiled by the center. It has a single prisoner.

The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)

The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England’s rate is 151; Germany’s is 88; and Japan’s is 63.

The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.

There is little question that the high incarceration rate here has helped drive down crime, though there is debate about how much.

Criminologists and legal experts here and abroad point to a tangle of factors to explain America’s extraordinary incarceration rate: higher levels of violent crime, harsher sentencing laws, a legacy of racial turmoil, a special fervor in combating illegal drugs, the American temperament, and the lack of a social safety net. Even democracy plays a role, as judges — many of whom are elected, another American anomaly — yield to populist demands for tough justice.

Source: NY Times

By ADAM LIPTAK

Full Article Click Here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[China]

Well, to be fair, China's would be higher except that they execute more of theirs.

[BigMike619]

Well, to be fair, China's would be higher except that they execute more of theirs.

Id go as far as to say there would be alot more closer to or passing us but they execute.

:2cents:

[Smoot Point Really]

Some countries find it cheaper to just amputate...

[GoSkins561]

Well, to be fair, China's would be higher except that they execute more of theirs.

Some countries find it cheaper to just amputate...

Maybe we should learn something and start doing the same. I bet you people would think twice about stealing something if we cut their hands off for doing so.

You steal a car, you get your right foot and both arms cut off.

You kill someone because you were driving drunk, you get used as a test dummie.

etc etc etc.

[Thiebear]

The Gulags in N.K. dont count, people die quite often..

Same as China... other stoning type places..

We are one of the few countries that provide HBO and the sports channel...

[Henry]

That number excludes hundreds of thousands of people held in administrative detention, most of them in China’s extrajudicial system of re-education through labor, which often singles out political activists who have not committed crimes.

That shouldn't be an afterthought. That's a pretty huge factor to consider.

[zoony]

That settles it. We're an evil country. Next topic!

....

[Duckus]

Those are some pretty wild statistics. Sooner or later something has to change, because at some point we wont be able to manage our own system - cost wise or logistically.

At that point, I am not sure what we will do.

[Larry]

We are one of the few countries that provide HBO and the sports channel...

Remembering a Mystery novel I'd read a while back. The cop has just been introduced to some rich guy's assistant. The cop observes that the assistant is obviously in excellant physical condition, and concludes that the man is a convicted felon. His reasoning is that in America, only the very wealthy and career criminals have access to exercise equipment and the free time to use them regularly.

-----

Also remembering once repairing a printer in the US Marshals office. They had an exercise room, with a motivational poster. The poster shows someone wearing a Department of Corrections jumpsuit, using an exercise machine.

Caption read:

Remember

Every day you don't work out,

someone else does.

[Predicto]

Ok, let's concede that China and North Korea suck worse than we do and move on to the meat of the issue, ok?

This country is crazed about crime and punishing people as harshly as possible for the most minor of offenses. I blame Nancy Grace.

[zoony]

This country is crazed about crime and punishing people as harshly as possible for the most minor of offenses. I blame Nancy Grace.

I blame the lawyers :cool:

[MurrayH81]

I wonder what the breakdown is if you consider the amount of the prison population that are illegal aliens.

I think some people get locked up because life is better for them in prison. Case in point, my wife recently was working in California, and the number of women who get put in jail while pregnant is incredible. They get themselves popped in jail and then deliver free of charge (at least to themselves).

If prison was amenity/perk free and really punishment, instead of a Holiday Inn Express, I suspect our count would go down.

[Larry]

I wonder what the breakdown is if you consider the amount of the prison population that are illegal aliens.

I think some people get locked up because life is better for them in prison. Case in point, my wife recently was working in California, and the number of women who get put in jail while pregnant is incredible. They get themselves popped in jail and then deliver free of charge (at least to themselves).

If prison was amenity/perk free and really punishment, instead of a Holiday Inn Express, I suspect our count would go down.

Sorry, but I find it really hard to believe that there are that many people who like being in jail.

[Predicto]

Sorry, but I find it really hard to believe that there are that many people who like being in jail.

I agree.

I don't know howe many prisons Murry has been to, but I've been to a few and they all sucked big time. I think the myth of the "lush, perk-filled prison" is an enduring one, but not very accurate.

[BigMike619]

Sorry, but I find it really hard to believe that there are that many people who like being in jail.

all the prisons I have been to are pretty cool and once you stab someone in the neck 10 or 12 times people start to leave you alone.

:2cents:

[Duckus]

If prison was amenity/perk free and really punishment, instead of a Holiday Inn Express, I suspect our count would go down.

I am not sure what Holiday Inn Expresses you have stayed in recently. But if you are being *** raped there on a regular basis, you really need to call the police, because that is NOT normal.

[redwoody86]

I blame the lawyers :cool:

I blame the national/state governments which make the laws, that the lawyers and judges follow for our legal proceedings and sentencing.

Although, my personal belief is that the laws/punishments are not enough of a deterrent and most crimes (read: things with a victim, not drug use) should have much longer jail times.

[GibbsFactor]

War on drugs? :whoknows:

[heyholetsgogrant]

I wonder what the breakdown is if you consider the amount of the prison population that are illegal aliens.

I think some people get locked up because life is better for them in prison. Case in point, my wife recently was working in California, and the number of women who get put in jail while pregnant is incredible. They get themselves popped in jail and then deliver free of charge (at least to themselves).

If prison was amenity/perk free and really punishment, instead of a Holiday Inn Express, I suspect our count would go down.

Thats not true and the medical care in prison is nowhere near what it is in the outside world. In fact we touched on women in prisons in one of my correctional classes this semester. The amount of miscarriages is high.

-Grant

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Prison industrial complex. Too much money is being made off of prisons and prisoners. You can't build a new prison, and make the 100's of millions it takes to do that, until you fill the first one. Not too mention the products that are produced in prisons with what is almost slave labor. Seriously, google "prison industrial complex" and read up on it. And google "UNICOR" while you're at it.

But yeah, prisoners are less than human anyway so **** 'em.

[MurrayH81]

okay, you got me on that one. I have not been a guest of the legal system in any manner other than a juror.

I will also concede that many of women who were prisoners and delivered children at the hospital in california, did not break the law just to deliver their kids for free (most were druggies).

However, I will contend that some folks inside and outside our country would view our jail system as an improvement of their personal living conditions. I wasn't specifying that they would view them as fun, or a picnic, but as an improvement in terms of food, shelter, and perhaps safety.

I suspect that the number of people who may view it that way might grow during hard economic times.

[MurrayH81]

Thats not true and the medical care in prison is nowhere near what it is in the outside world. In fact we touched on women in prisons in one of my correctional classes this semester. The amount of miscarriages is high.

-Grant

Not sure what you are citing as untrue in my post.

My wife worked at the Community hospital in Madera California from last summer to Christmas. The female inmates arrived with guards and in restraints, did their labour, and then had their days of recovery. Sometimes the babies became wards of the state, and sometimes they were taken by family. I can't say that is the way it is done in every state, but that's the way it is done in California. I am sure that infants born in an emergency in prison are at greater risk, as the staff there are probably not well versed in birth and child care.

[heyholetsgogrant]

Prison industrial complex. Too much money is being made off of prisons and prisoners. You can't build a new prison, and make the 100's of millions it takes to do that, until you fill the first one. Not too mention the products that are produced in prisons with what is almost slave labor. Seriously, google "prison industrial complex" and read up on it. And google "UNICOR" while you're at it.

But yeah, prisoners are less than human anyway so **** 'em.

Well most prisoners like having a job in prison and these positions can actually be very competitive. But yes your right it is like slave labor, there is huge demand to own and operate prisons for that very reason; Prison labor is now a billion dollar industry. Some of the jobs prisoners do, includes anything from soliciting to modifying police cars.

-Grant

[heyholetsgogrant]

Not sure what you are citing as untrue in my post.

My wife worked at the Community hospital in Madera California from last summer to Christmas. The female inmates arrived with guards and in restraints, did their labour, and then had their days of recovery. Sometimes the babies became wards of the state, and sometimes they were taken by family. I can't say that is the way it is done in every state, but that's the way it is done in California. I am sure that infants born in an emergency in prison are at greater risk, as the staff there are probably not well versed in birth and child care.

I believe I was referring to people actually going into prison for free care (maybe I misread your post). The prenatal care is sub-par, resulting in many miscarriages. Now it could be different in California.

-Grant