Lymes Disease

[Koolblue13]

As my roommate and close friend is in the process of taking his dog(13 month old dalmatian named Archy) back to the animal hospital, hoping that he isn't going to die today, because Lymes disease caused liver failure. In less than a week, he went from being the most active dog I know, to a lump who can't even control his bladder.

I had Lymes over the summer and I'll tell you it certainly sucked. I didn't have the energy to scratch my head, let alone eat, shower or work. I couldn't see straight and even got Bell Palsy from it(half my face was paralyzed). I had gone to 5 different doctors or emergency rooms, before anybody figured it out. I even had a minor stroke.

I've know people who have had pacemakers in their 20's because of the disease and people who have had an IV for 5 years now and again, are still in their 20's.

The Deer Tick is the most common spreader of it, although less than 20% of people know they have been bite by this pin head sized critter. Although they are now starting to find Lymes can be spread through breast milk and semen. Lymes may become an STD soon enough. Spiders and Mosquitoes are even being found to carry it as well.

Despite 17,000 cases last year alone, there is still no sure way to treat it or even accurately test. Most doctors won't even think of it, unless you ask specifically.

It's getting more common and I would just like to take this time to mention it. It is very serious.

[RammsteinSkins]

wow....didnt realize it was that bad.

[Koolblue13]

Yeah. I didn't either until it hit me.

It cripples people and some have died from misdiagnosing.

[jujuskinsfan]

wow man that sucks, hope you feel better. If only we could know all the weird disease that exists in this world...

[Mark The Homer]

I got it about six, seven years ago maybe. My leg joint (upper femur) got real sore, but I just thought it was one of those things. Then my friend saw this big bruise that looked like a bulls eye on my lower leg. I knew right then it was Lyme - probably from a tick.

Problem is, IIRC it takes a month to diagnose because it requires a blood test. But if you assume it's Lyme, you can start medication. Basically, I felt like I had the flu for a good week, plus the medication made my hyper sensitive to the sun. Unfortunately I had to keep on working, so it was a week of sheer hell.

But I caught it in time and all is good.

[Drockvb]

My dog has lyme disease. But he seems fine. He took a months worth of antiboitics, and i have not seen any change in his health or tempement. I guess i am lucky.

[Koolblue13]

wow man that sucks, hope you feel better. If only we could know all the weird disease that exists in this world...

Thanks, I'm fine though. Today I am only concerned about my friends dog.

[Teller]

Damn, Kool. Glad you recovered. That sounds horrible.

Thanks to God for your health, and prayers for your friend's pup.

[Metalhead]

Lymes disease freaks me out. I have similar symptoms, aching joints, arthiritis symptoms with no arthiritis, eye pain and tingling sensations (had them on the left side of my face several times). I hate to be a hypochondriac (sp?), but I've been thinking about getting checked for it, if not for peace of mind.

Good to hear you recovered Koolblue. A minor stroke though? that's scary.

[Special K]

Hey Koolblue, I'm so glad you finally recieved a correct diagnosis and proper treatment. And you're right, Lymes is a very serious disease. People living in tick areas should be especially cognisant of all tick-borne diseases.

One thing to throw out there...the reason Lymes so hard to diagnose is that it is relatively uncommon and it's symptoms mimic the symptoms of so many other diseases....

[DGreenistheBest]

Didn't Bush recover from Lymes sometime in the last few years? I seem to remember reading about that.

[Mark The Homer]

Lymes disease freaks me out. I have similar symptoms, aching joints, arthiritis symptoms with no arthiritis, eye pain and tingling sensations (had them on the left side of my face several times). I hate to be a hypochondriac (sp?), but I've been thinking about getting checked for it, if not for peace of mind.

Good to hear you recovered Koolblue. A minor stroke though? that's scary.

I believe the correct term is "Lyme Disease" because it was discovered in Lyme, Connecticut.

I would go see a doc, if I was you. Problem is, it takes too long to diagnose for sure, but in the meantime, there is medication you can take that covers a lot of problems, Lyme being one of them. I'd go see a doc. Tomorrow.

[The Villi Phanatic]

I tested positive for and was diagnosed with lyme disease about a year ago. Unfortunately, I had been symptomatic for 5+ years prior to this and likewise was diagnosed many years after I likely contracted it. As a result, it's much more difficult to treat effectively. Even more unfortunate is that there are a staggeringly large number of people (in relative terms compared to awareness on the disease) in my situation, many of whom remain undiagnosed, and the political atmosphere surrounding the diagnoses and treatment of lyme disease makes it that much more difficult for us patients as well as doctors attempting to treat these patients.

There are so many things that could be discussed regarding lyme, but I'll just go over a couple for now that are relevant to most people as basics to know about the disease.

1. The testing for lyme (and other tick-borne infections for that matter) is iffy at best, as Koolblue indicated. The standard test used by your average doctor and recommended by the CDC is the Elisa test, which has been shown to be less sensitive than other tests such as the Western Blot test in detecting lyme disease that has been later confirmed by the presence of lyme spirochetes from biopsy samples. However, the Elisa test remains the standard screening test with a Western Blot typically only administered as a confirmatory test.

All of the testing, whether it's Elisa, WB, PCR, etc. has flaws to an extent in detecting lyme disease, which is why a negative test in itself can't rule out lyme disease. Again, none of this will be communicated to you by a standard doctor, be it a primary physician or an infectious disease specialist. If you suspect you may have lyme disease, it is best to find what is called a LLMD (lyme-literate medical doctor) in your area and consult with them. There are also certain labs which have a track record of better diagnostic methodology that should be used for testing.

2. As I alluded to above, lyme disease is much easier to treat effectively if treatment begins within the first few weeks of transmission. There are still those who won't be treated as successfully as symptoms may become chronic or those that will be treated successfully and then relapse at some point down the road, but overall, treatment is significantly more effective and straightforward if initiated within this time period.

If you do get a bulls-eye rash, then you should begin a course of antibiotics, as this is nearly automatic as a diagnostic tool for lyme disease. However, the majority of people who are infected don't get such a rash, and many, including myself don't remember getting bit by a tick.

3. Lyme disease can manifest in many different ways and doesn't have to do so with the classical symptomatic presentation of arthritis and joint problems. For a large subset of lyme disease patients such as myself, the neurological symptoms are the primary symptoms, and the general term for this type of infection is neuroborreliosis (borrelia is the genus for the lyme spirochetes). I initially started getting daily headaches back around early 2002 and struggle with various cognitive issues such as confusion, difficulties with word selection, memory issues, etc. which fluctuate in intensity throughout a given day/week/month etc.

4. Lyme disease is much more widespread than is typically recognized. The figure KoolBlue gave of 17,000 is likely the CDC-reported cases from last year (actually, just checking their website http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_UpClimbLymeDis.htm shows it to be a bit higher year to year than that recently). Regardless, this data is just reported cases, which are grossly under-representative of the actual number of cases for a variety of reasons. I'll try to see if I can find some good sources later, but the estimates I've seen put the number of new cases around 200,000 per year in the US.

Also, lyme disease can occur and does occur in areas for which the disease is not endemic. There are many states in which people who suspect they have lyme disease discuss this with their doctors and are dismissed with a "lyme doesn't exist here" statement to consequently test positive when they are able to get testing done. This won't be much of an issue for most people on this board as most states in the Northeast including NJ, MD, PA, etc. are all recognized as being endemic for lyme.

[Sticksboi05]

It's a good thing there are an assortment of different antibiotics available for it's treatment but yes detection is hard. I go camping alot and it is always a good idea to check for ticks when you go outdoors for prolonged periods of time.

[DeanCollins]

I got bite by a couple of ticks last year in FL (at my Ocala lake property). One of the little ****s was in my belly button biting the **** out of me. I've known about lyme disease for a long time because someone that my mother knew (a long time ago) had it and she's always warning me when I go trailbike riding. My Dr. down here said that it's a northern thing and that the FL ticks don't have it. I wonder what the risk is in The NC mountians as I have deer all around my mountain home. Anyone know?

[The Villi Phanatic]

I got bite by a couple of ticks last year in FL (at my Ocala lake property). One of the little ****s was in my belly button biting the **** out of me. I've known about lyme disease for a long time because someone that my mother knew (a long time ago) had it and she's always warning me when I go trailbike riding. My Dr. down here said that it's a northern thing and that the FL ticks don't have it. I wonder what the risk is in The NC mountians as I have deer all around my mountain home. Anyone know?

Heh, your dr. saying Florida ticks don't have it is exactly what I'm referring to in terms of the typical responses in non-endemic areas.

(from http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=064760#000000)

"Borrelia lonestari DNA was detected among lone star ticks (Amblyomma americanum) at four sites. Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto strains were detected in all small mammal species tested and in A. americanum, Ixodes affinis, and Ixodes scapularis ticks."

also, from an article on a story of somebody in Florida who went undiagnosed with lyme for years and was only diagnosed eventually after independently pursuing a diagnosis with a lyme specialist using a lab specialized in lyme testing (Igenex likely though the article simply refers to the lab as one in CA) (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/10/Floridian/It_wasn_t_Lyme_diseas.shtml)

"My aunt, whose entire family contracted Lyme disease in Massachusetts in the late 80s, recognized the symptoms, but every time my mother or I mentioned the possibility to doctors, they sternly instructed us that the disease did not exist in Florida."

and a blurb after the story:

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Florida has had 40 to 80 cases a year since 2000, some of which cannot be attributed to out-of-state travel. Many Lyme sufferers think the number of cases is actually much higher, and that many cases go untreated because of doctors' belief that the illness can't be contracted in Florida."

Contending that lyme and TBI (tick-borne infections) are less prevalent in areas such as Florida is one thing but the patently dismissive nature of the majority of doctors in non-endemic areas is very dangerous to patients, especially considering the increased difficulties in effectively treating the disease the longer it stays undiagnosed.

[The Villi Phanatic]

Oh, and Dean, as far as your question about the NC mountains, I don't know off-hand, but it seems to likely be less than the typical endemic areas such as the Northeast but more risky than many areas South or West of it. You can check http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_Incidence.htm and http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_rptdLymeCasesbyState.htm for the prevalence of reported cases in NC.

I'd just recommend taking some general precautions to avoid potential exposure.

Here's a link with some tips on prevention: http://www.ilads.org/burrascano_1102.htm#pt_instruct

Also, a key point in this link is on how to properly remove ticks so as to reduce risks of being infected:

"Using a tweezer (not fingers!), grasp the tick as close to the skin as possible and pull straight out. Then apply an antiseptic. Do not try to irritate them with heat or chemicals, or grasp them by the body, as this may cause the tick to inject more germs into your skin. Tape the tick to a card and record the date and location of the bite. Remember, the sooner the tick is removed, the less likely an infection will result."

That's one of the mistakes many people make when removing ticks is simply grabbing them and yanking them off with their fingers, consequently increasing the transmission of spirochetes. From what I've read, it's better to wait for a small amount of time and get tweezers to properly remove them than trying to do so otherwise. You can also send ticks out to be tested if you're inclined to do so.

[Mark The Homer]

Another point I'd like to make is, I believe the ticks most likely to carry Lyme are the deer ticks - which are extremely small -- roughly the size of the head of a pin.

Villi - do you know if this is true?

[The Villi Phanatic]

Another point I'd like to make is, I believe the ticks most likely to carry Lyme are the deer ticks - which are extremely small -- roughly the size of the head of a pin.

Villi - do you know if this is true?

Yep, pretty much spot on. Adult deer ticks are somewhat bigger than those in the nymph or larval stages and are more easily detected, but transmission frequently occurs from ticks in the nymph stage that are no bigger than the size of the head of a pin as you said.

[redskinss]

I cant speak for other parts of the country but where i live everybody knows about lyme disease.

the symptoms would not be overlooked and you would be diagnosed right away.

the tick season this year is especialy bad, i have already taken one off my dog and one off of both of my children.

[Stew]

My dog has lyme disease. But he seems fine. He took a months worth of antiboitics, and i have not seen any change in his health or tempement. I guess i am lucky.

My dog was diagnosed with Lymes as well, and my dog is fine. Months worth of Diocacylin or something like that and he was fine. he never missed a beat... or a meal for that matter. I guess we caught it early in our pets. I used to think the flea and tic meds were being pushed on you at the vet and never put any on my dogs in the winter months, and thats when he got it. He is fine npw though.

[Heisenberg]

What would be indicators that your dog could have Lyme?

[redskinss]

What would be indicators that your dog could have Lyme?

my dog too has lyme disease and has had it since he was a pup.

the vet told us as long as he doesnt show any symptoms that we wouldnt do anything about it.

i dont know what all the symptoms are but he recently had dark urine and the vet thought it might be a liver infection caused from his lyme disease but it was a bladder infection.

[Huly]

You can prevent Lyme's disease in dog by getting the shot. My vet also test yearly for Lymes when testing for heart worms.

I went to the doctor as soon as I saw the circular rash on my back. They started me on meds right away and I never had any other symptoms.

If you contact Lymes you will always test positive from here on out in humans and pets.

One of the biggest signs in pets is lameness.

[DeanCollins]

Oh, and Dean, as far as your question about the NC mountains, I don't know off-hand, but it seems to likely be less than the typical endemic areas such as the Northeast but more risky than many areas South or West of it. You can check http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_Incidence.htm and http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_rptdLymeCasesbyState.htm for the prevalence of reported cases in NC.

I'd just recommend taking some general precautions to avoid potential exposure.

Here's a link with some tips on prevention: http://www.ilads.org/burrascano_1102.htm#pt_instruct

thanks for links. I told my Dr. that I wanted a blood test and go on some anitbiotics anyway, which I did. That disease can pretty do whatever it wants to from killing organs to reeking havoc on your central nervous system.