Len Bias movie

[Kilmer17]

All drug overdoses are "accidents." I just dont see why people worship Bias. He killed himself with drugs and wasted the talent that he had. He isnt someone that should be looked up to, he's a cautionary tale of what NOT to be.

Not anywhere CLOSE to Sean Taylor being murdered in a home invasion.

Dindingding!!!!!

Well said.

[jrockster21]

I have been trying to let this just die off because it is obvious that I liked Bias alot as a player and see this as a tragic event but here we go:

How is my memory foggy if I say I remember him from MD? If he was drafted in 86 then he spent his 4 years at MD since 82 which is the EARLY 80s!!

You said that everyone was Hoya fans until Bias showed up. The problem with that statement is that nobody was Hoya fan until Ewing showed up. Ewing showed up in 81 - Bias in 82 - they were separated by one season.

[BigMike619]

You said that everyone was Hoya fans until Bias showed up. The problem with that statement is that nobody was Hoya fan until Ewing showed up. Ewing showed up in 81 - Bias in 82 - they were separated by one season.

OK, so if I say that I (ME!!) remember everyone being a Hoya fan until Len showed up would you accept that? :doh:

[Heidenreich]

And if you want to talk about analogies it DOES count because Len had NO past instances where he got in trouble with the law and he got caught up doing drugs (I had never heard that he was a IV user by the way). He like Sean was a decorated player (2 time ACC player of the year and ACC Athelete of the year as well).

It was Len's fault that Len died. It was not Sean's fault that Sean died. That is why the analogy is flawed.

[jrockster21]

It was Len's fault that Len died. It was not Sean's fault that Sean died. That is why the analogy is flawed.

Exactly. Sean died because some low-life, reject, societal bottom-feeder decided to rob his house without knowing he was home, and then shot him.

[BigMike619]

It was Len's fault that Len died. It was not Sean's fault that Sean died. That is why the analogy is flawed.

pick at the little piece and dont see the overall pic. Sean was flashing money at a party. people can say that was his fault.

look, I love Sean and I dont think he deserved to die. I dont even want to touch this in that aspect, but saying that Len doesnt deserve the same sympathy is just stupid. He was a local boy who was making good and died from a crack overdose. I am pretty sure we all either know or have known someone who is addicted to drugs. Its a sad thing and when it ends like his life did it is even worse.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not sure how Taylor's death gets brought into this discussion. Bias' death is a cultural landmark. I was living in Pittsburgh at the time so the "Baseball Drug Trials" were fresh in everyone's mind.

Cocaine was certainly beginning to be seen as a "scourge" of the sports world. But Bias' death was the apex of that idea. It one moment, it changed a lot of thoughts on drug use, the drug dangers, perceptions of young black athletes, college basketball, pro basketball, campus life, inner-city life, etc. I still remember the SI cover that came out: "Death of a Dream."

The death of Sean Taylor is really just a self-reflexive moment. In the future, it is going to be seen as relating solely to itself.

In terms of cultural impact, they are not the same.

[PleaseBlitz]

pick at the little piece and dont see the overall pic. Sean was flashing money at a party. people can say that was his fault.

look, I love Sean and I dont think he deserved to die. I dont even want to touch this in that aspect, but saying that Len doesnt deserve the same sympathy is just stupid. He was a local boy who was making good and died from a crack overdose. I am pretty sure we all either know or have known someone who is addicted to drugs. Its a sad thing and when it ends like his life did it is even worse.

:munchout:

[BigMike619]

:munchout:

Knock it off dude. I am not putting down Sean's death whatsoever.

[jrockster21]

pick at the little piece and dont see the overall pic. Sean was flashing money at a party. people can say that was his fault.

:doh: That's a huge piece. Plus, he was an NFL player and anyone who picked up a newspaper could see how much money he had.

[skinfan2k]

pick at the little piece and dont see the overall pic. Sean was flashing money at a party. people can say that was his fault.

u mean giving his house to a half sister for a birthday party during the season. :doh: The suspects were people who knew the half sister and saw sean a couple of times and saw him as a easy target for some fast cash. How does this relate?

Yes, sean should have permantely been removed from the Miami developments, and should only go down in the offseason, but it was a honest mistake, coming home to see a local doctor?

Bias, otherwise took drugs and he was known for his past use and continued after being drafted by the celtics and paid the ultimate price.

[BigMike619]

:doh: That's a huge piece. Plus, he was an NFL player and anyone who picked up a newspaper could see how much money he had.

I am not going to get in a debate now over who's death was more important. You can do that yourself. I have made my statement and if you dont like it thats fine but I am not going to be a champion for Bias over Taylor ever. Both deaths were tragic and I wish never happened.

[Rocky21]

a promising college athlete shoots coke right after getting drafted by the NBA and his heart explodes or something. At least he was an example of consequeces for stupid decisions. I remember at that time, they tried to claim it was Bias' first time using cocaine. But later " A district court and court of appeals found that Bias had been an intravenous drug user."

This is the first I've heard of Len Bias shooting coke.

Len Bias was a dumbass because with his draft position he was in for a big pay day from the Celtics and endorsement deals. The only thing he had to do was not kill himself with drugs. He did.

[PleaseBlitz]

Knock it off dude. I am not putting down Sean's death whatsoever.

By comparing a guy that OD'd himself on drugs to ST getting murdered in his home, you certainly are.

[BigMike619]

By comparing a guy that OD'd himself on drugs to ST getting murdered in his home, you certainly are.

you believe what you want. this started off with me saying his death was as important and meaningful. I have in no way said that Sean's death was less tragic.

But honestly, I dont care if you believe that or not. Those who really know me know that isnt what I meant at all.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think it's pretty dangerous to go down a "who deserved to die more?" discussion.

The answer is pretty simple: Neither.

Half the NBA was on cocaine in '86. All you need to do is look at the 1986 draft and realize that this was not just a Len Bias problem. The fact that Bias was the one who ended up dead really makes him more of a statistical anamoly more than anything else. (I've never bought the story that it was his first time using coke. At the same time, I can't believe he was a serious addict at that point either).

Anyway, it's really hard to even view Bias as a person at this point. He's a cultural touchstone. Maybe it's because I was 12 when he died but I will remember everything about that week until I am 100 - and I wasn't even living in DC or Boston then. I spent the whole week waiting for the inevitable SI article to explain and summarize everything.

Sean Taylor's death was a 24/7 vigil on a dozen stations and yet it feels less potent because of that in some ways. Round the clock sports news has had the weird effect of making sports less meaningful in some way.

But in a lot of ways, both Taylor and Bias died more of dumb luck than anything else.

[skinfan2k]

bigMike never gets into arguments when hes wrong. He just hangs out with TR1 in the Around the NFL league and plays ring-around-the-rosie!

[BigMike619]

bigMike never gets into arguments when hes wrong. He just hangs out with TR1 in the Around the NFL league and plays ring-around-the-rosie!

wow...you really made a valid point about this topic dude. :doh:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Also, the "He deserved to die" argument just reeks of Puritanical "God shall smote ye sinners" nonsense to me.

[BigMike619]

Also' date=' the "He deserved to die" argument just reeks of Puritanical "God shall smote ye sinners" nonsense to me.[/quote']

Agreed. I will say it a 5th time, I was not saying Sean's death was less tragic I was saying that some people (myself included) look at Mench's joke about Len's death like most in here look at anyone making a joke about Sean's death. It was a personal thing most of us remember big time when it happened.

[Heidenreich]

Half the NBA was on cocaine in '86. All you need to do is look at the 1986 draft and realize that this was not just a Len Bias problem. The fact that Bias was the one who ended up dead really makes him more of a statistical anamoly more than anything else. (I've never bought the story that it was his first time using coke. At the same time' date=' I can't believe he was a serious addict at that point either). [/quote']

Correct. Which is why I don't get everyone thinking that Bias would be MJ's biggest rival for 15 years in the NBA. If he was on coke, there's at least a 50% chance his career would have flamed out anyway.

Anyway' date=' it's really hard to even view Bias as a person at this point. He's a cultural touchstone. Maybe it's because I was 12 when he died but I will remember everything about that week until I am 100 - and I wasn't even living in DC or Boston then. I spent the whole week waiting for the inevitable SI article to explain and summarize everything.[/quote']

Agreed. Everybody knows who Len Bias is. Not because he was a superstar at Maryland, but because he died after being drafted by the perrenial franchise in the NBA. He was going to be the next big thing. Bias & Larry Bird were going to lead the Celtics into the new millenium.

But in a lot of ways' date=' both Taylor and Bias died more of dumb luck than anything else.[/quote']

They did both die from dumb luck. Both were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the difference is one could have been more avoidable than the other, that's all.

Plus, ST is a touchy subject around here (naturally). This isn't exactly the best place to make that comparison.....

[jrockster21]

I think it's pretty dangerous to go down a "who deserved to die more?" discussion.

Dude, you are way off base here - nobody is saying that either "deserved to die" - we are saying their deaths aren't comparable.

[jrockster21]

Also' date=' the "He deserved to die" argument just reeks of Puritanical "God shall smote ye sinners" nonsense to me.[/quote']

I'm still confused - you are the only one who has mentioned anything about deserving to die. :whoknows:

[Heidenreich]

Also' date=' the "He deserved to die" argument just reeks of Puritanical "God shall smote ye sinners" nonsense to me.[/quote']

Saying he shouldn't be worshipped because he killed himself with cocaine is not the same as saying he deserved to die.....

[BigMike619]

I think its going to be best if we all walk away from this. I didnt mean to bring up Taylor's death and have this turn into a pissing contest.

And for the record I dont believe that his death was less important then Len's. I was saying the joke is wrong and I used his death as an analogy on how some people would get offended by it.

Sean did not deserve to die and neither did Len. I hope this movie comes out to San Diego because I would like to watch it.