Obama: Grandmother "Typical White Person"

[wyominghansen]

On July 11, 1992 Ross Perot gave the NAACP speech in which he referred to "you people" and "your people." On July 16, Perot was out.

Even though in the same speech he states that, "Our diversity is our strength, not a weakness...We ought to love one another, at least get along... Our country will not be great until we are all united and equal..."

Yeah, I agree that everyone makes mistakes in their speeches. But why should one person be exempt from the backlash?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Yeah, I agree that everyone makes mistakes in their speeches. But why should one person be exempt from the backlash?

Because the backlash is stupid? You don't need to wrong everyone in order to make things fair.

[Special K]

Maybe Rev. Wright does do other things than fuel racial animosity. :whoknows:

Okay...

Well to me, the kind of venom I've seen Rev. Wright spew from his pulpit essentially negates whatever else he's done to "heal the divide."

[Special K]

and eats babies, you forgot to mention that Rv. Wright also eats white babies...

So....you're telling me I'm overreacting when I say Wright fuels racial animosity with his sermons???

[Predicto]

Okay...

Well to me, the kind of venom I've seen Rev. Wright spew from his pulpit essentially negates whatever else he's done to "heal the divide."

Not disagreeing, really. I don't think Rev. Writh has done much to "heal the divide."

I just imagine that Rev. Wright has done a lot more than talk about race, period. I doubt all his sermons were political, and I doubt all his actions were on the pulpit either. That's all I'm saying.

[wyominghansen]

I am not saying to wrong everyone. All I am saying, (with all of the recent revelations about Mr. Obama) what is the harm about finding out where he is coming from, and his beliefs.

[33]

You know, I really didn't care one way or the other about Obama's statement. I've listened to a lot of interviews and speeches of his and I do have to say that I believe he's sincere in wanting to rise above racial issues...which is why it's so confusing to me that he remained so close to Rev. Wright, a person who does nothing but fuel racial animosity.

Let's just watch more than the news bites before we really say how bad he is. Most people haven't even seen those one liners in the context of two minutes of his sermon let alone the entire thing

I'm not saying those sound bites are correct, but we're not much better if we won't check the context out.

EDIT: Sorry, I should have gone farther to see the other responses you got.

[Special K]

Not disagreeing, really. I don't think Rev. Writh has done much to "heal the divide."

I just imagine that Rev. Wright has done a lot more than talk about race, period. I doubt all his sermons were political, and I doubt all his actions were on the pulpit either. That's all I'm saying.

Okay, I see what you're saying and I agree: I'm sure Rev. Wright had many sermons that did not touch on racial division, inequity, etc. I guess I'm just upset at the sermons he does give that are racially motivated and factually inaccurate b/c I find them just so unbelievably destructive.

[flashback]

On July 11, 1992 Ross Perot gave the NAACP speech in which he referred to "you people" and "your people." On July 16, Perot was out.

Even though in the same speech he states that, "Our diversity is our strength, not a weakness...We ought to love one another, at least get along... Our country will not be great until we are all united and equal..."

Yeah, I agree that everyone makes mistakes in their speeches. But why should one person be exempt from the backlash?

Perot recieved 19% of the vote in the 1992 election, which, unless I'm mistaken, happened in November. How is that possible if he was "out" on July 16?

There are a couple of differences.

1) Barry didn't address a 99% white audience as "you people."

2) H. Ross Perot isn't half black.

And please clarify your position. Was the 'backlash' (however you're defining it) proper, appropriate and just when it happened to Ross Perot?

[Special K]

Let's just watch more than the news bites before we really say how bad he is. Most people haven't even seen those one liners in the context of two minutes of his sermon let alone the entire thing

I'm not saying those sound bites are correct, but we're not much better if we won't check the context out.

You know, I try to look at the context of the situation before I speak simply b/c the context explains everything. However, I can find no acceptable context in which to find the crap Wright's said about the HIV/AIDS, etc., appropriate. I think the HIV/AIDS statement struck me really hard because I'm in public health and I find it so inaccurate and incredibly dangerous to hold a posistion of authority and say something of that magnitude.

But whatever, this thread is about Obama, and like I said, I didn't care about his statement. Although, while took no offense to it, it probably wasn't the most appropriate "wordage" to use when trying to convey a healing message about race.

[Jumbo]

You know, I really didn't care one way or the other about Obama's statement. I've listened to a lot of interviews and speeches of his and I do have to say that I believe he's sincere in wanting to rise above racial issues...which is why it's so confusing to me that he remained so close to Rev. Wright, a person who does nothing but fuel racial animosity.

keeastman, I think a willingess to to be drawn too deep into flagrant distractions and seeing the heart of the matter is important, as you tap into what seems obvious are Obama's hallmarks of trying to get races to work together in benign and mutaully respectful fashion.

On the Wright matter, I shared in another thread a rare, though brief, personal anecdote about someone I would call a mentor, who really was an uncle, who also was a blatant and mean-spirited racist.

As complex and contradictory as it sounds, he still did a lot of charity work as a Shriner and he taught me a lot about hard work, perserverance, helping others, and was a man of many skills he spent time teaching me. But his hating side was one I struggled with as an open-minded adolescent and teen-ager in the 60's, growing up in the very diverse environment of Anchorage, AK.

In fact, I was partly raised by various military guys, a devout Christian (protestant) family in the neighborhood (my bio-family was Catholic), a Buddhist family (from Okinawa via U.S. Air Force--studying martial arts with the younger males), and some hippies (a real commune--ah the girls:silly: ), but also was on my own a lot during those years.

The grounds I found to accept my unlce on didn't yield to the arguments we had over his bigotry, even though I came to understand how he was influenced by environment and experience as he developed into adulthood. In the end though, as an adult, he, as we all, have to be repsonsible for our choices.

Yet even that ugly side had limits. He showed caring at times for the group he most hated by his words and regular deeds (African Americans). But he was a true **** in many ways. I doubt he did as many good things as Wright:laugh:

Had I been older when knowing him, I may have handled it even better, I don't know. I certianly rejected what he believed in several areas. I also understood the anger some of my friends and remaining family had that I found any acceptance for him at all. That is indeed on me. Whether I showed good character or poor judgment, strength or weakness, is something I asked myself for many years. In the end, I think all were involved.

Obama has to take that same heat if applied, for better or worse, whether someone can understand his choice or not, and whether others feel he's justifed or not.

But if I were to run for Potus, I would honestly submit that you should not judge me too deeply at an overall level, just because of my choices regarding Uncle John, as long as I don't actually endorse his bigotry with words are deeds--because I certainly haven't.

I have been planning on McCain for some time, becoming questionable on that only recently, and I think Obama's speech is who he is from what I have been able to access and analyze. To the degree I accept him or reject him to date is based on many matters, of which the Wright affiliation plays only a small negative piece, and this thread's topic none at all.

[WinSkins]

Wow, is it just me or is Obama starting to cripple under the pressure?

Seriously, the new polls have Clinton ahead by 7 points, and it seems like the margin is going to continue to grow.

I guess Obama peaked too early :whoknows:

You were right...it's just you. There are a number of intellectual cripples who've weighed in, but Senator Obama is not likely to be mistaken for any of them. Your bias is clear and unwavering, in each of your posts, so your opinion, regardless of the specific context or facts, is quite predictable.

I commend Om's post in this thread to you for an example of thoughtful, reasoned discourse.

[Duncan]

My question is: If Obama has to face off on this issue, does it illustrate how far we have to go to resolve the issue of race? Are we really a racist empire?

I am an educated African American. I found what Rev. Wright said as one of the worst acts of betrayal. Race is a constant issue. Obama is not the one that causes race to be a hot issue in America, but he's being cast as a bigot, or prejudice. Look at the title of this threat. The same person that put this up, isn't concern about resolving the race issue. Instead they are trying to make every caucasian voter to see Obama as a "typical black man" making generalization of white people, so henceforth he will be a typical black man in the white house. I take homage in that ideal. If every black man strived to be the best he could be, and try to shatter racial stereotypes instead of giving into them, we would finally take a true stand against oppression because we would seek empowerment. That is progress.

One of the reasons I posted the blog entry was to point out the absurdity of the race debate in the country today, not to claim Obama was a racist. I thought it was undignified to call out one of the woman that raised him after his father walked out, but I really don't think Obama thinks his race is superior.

I'll be honest though and admit I'm not too concerned with "resolving the race issue" because the proposed solutions (affirmative action, wealth transfer, social engineering in general) go against my ideals as a libertarian and seem to be the only solutions currently on the table.

Somehow being black in 2008 is no longer about skin color and has shifted to behaviors, attitudes, attire and other cultural issues that have nothing to do with race (something I think you touched on in your post). There are so many cases of successful black men that are shunned by the community for "acting white" or not being "black enough" or being a "race traitor not down with the struggle". Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember more than a few comments about Obama from black leaders along those lines before he started leading in the polls.

I could care less about skin color. It's all about attitude and behavior and I apply that to everyone with whom I chose to associate.

Maybe that is the disconnect everyone talks about and what Obama was trying to tiptoe around during his speech.

Criticism of behavior or culture is immediately met with cries of racism. Point out illegitimacy rates in the black community and you must be a racist. Point out the drop out rate for blacks and you must be a racist.

Point out similar problems in the white community and you are a concerned citizen.

I guess that makes me a culturist or classist and unfortunately there will always be a large swath of the American public that debases the culture and has no class. It's not race specific.

[Special K]

keeastman, I think a willigness to to be drawn too deep into flagrant distractions and seeing the heart of the matter is important, as you tap into what seems obvious are Obama's hallmarks of trying to get races to work together in benign and mutaully respectful fashion.

The grounds I found to accept my unlce on didn't yield to the arguments we had over his bigotry even though I came to understand how he was influenced by environment and experience. In the end though, as an adult, he, as we all, have to be repsonsible for our chocies.

But if I were to run for Potus, I would honestly submit that you should not judge me too deeply at an overall level, just because of my chocies regarding Uncle John, as long as I don't actually endorse his bigotry with words are deeds--because I certainly haven't.

Hey Jumbo, thanks for your thoughtful response. You did a good job of elucidating the many factors that are considered in the process of accepting and supporting a person while being wholly against some of their views. However, I do believe your's and Obama's situations were a little different in as much as your mentor was a relative while Obama's mentor was a pastor who's church he chose to attend.

I do believe Obama is sincere in wanting to heal racial divisions in our country, I'm just at a loss for how he could spend 20 years in this church, a church with divisive rhetoric at times and open support of Farrakhan and Muammar Gadhafi, without standing up to some of that or leaving the church. It's just one of those :doh: for me and something I have to reason through by talking (and posting on ES ) about. However, your description of your experience helped me see a bit more how multi-faceted a situation this is...

[Heisenberg]

I don't know if this has been said but I would say given the context of the wording that he meant to say "average" instead of "typical". If he had done so it would have definitely sounded better.

I am white and I really wasn't offended at all because I think it is obvious what he was trying to say. There is obviously no telling that to some people on this board and I respect their opinions.

[Burgold]

I do believe Obama is sincere in wanting to heal racial divisions in our country, I'm just at a loss for how he could spend 20 years in this church, a church with divisive rhetoric at times and open support of Farrakhan and Muammar Gadhafi, without standing up to some of that or leaving the church. It's just one of those :doh: for me and something I have to reason through by talking (and posting on ES ) about. However, your description of your experience helped me see a bit more how multi-faceted a situation this is...

I'm going to look at this sideways for a moment. About a year and a half ago, I started working and reporting for NPR or at least a local NPR station. Now, in all my feature reporting I have tried to be as neutral and objective as possible. Now, every so often my humanity and philosophy peeks in and surfaces in the questions I choose to ask or not to ask and what stories I most want to cover, but even so, when I edit... I try to reduce the impact of me and then when my editor looks it over the work is further sanitized of Burgoldian influence. So, that the work as much as possible is as good and fair to everyone as it can be.

I think it is impossible to believe that Obama does not have racial thoughts or even ugly racial thoughts from time to time... the question is when he acts and when he speaks what does he try to convey and what does he try to do. Does he allow those impulses to control him or does he recognize them and try to do the right thing.

I think he is making a sincere effort to minimize race. If every so often his experiences allow him to backslide it's no different than when any politician of an era allows their experiences to push them.

We all learn from and fight against our past. The fact that he's brave enough to confront this past and tries to go beyond it speaks well of him... at least in my eyes.

[SUSkinsFan]

So it seems you're making the assumption that by using the words "typical white person" he's saying all white people are the same.

Reading the context in which he used that term, though, isn't it just as likely he's saying his grandmother is typical of the kind of white person who has the specific reaction he describes to being approached on the street by a stranger of another color? Fact is, there are many such white people. Just as there are many such people of other colors that have similar reactions to the specific scenario in reverse.

I'm not defending his comment or criticizing it. Just pointing out that taking the term "typical white person" totally out of context has little useful value in trying to parse what's in Obama's heart. I'm sure that won't stop anyone from taking the phrase and running with it, though.

That's how I read it

[Jumbo]

Your comments on the distinction between my situation and Obama's are on point, keeastman, though I can't claim familial bonding as a strong motivator in my life, and he marrried my dad's (navy guy/absent) sister, so he wasn't bio-family. I really did choose his company for my own selfish reasons--to learn skills and because I wanted to emulate his confidence, competence, and physical strength.

Foolish though it be, I wish these matters weren't so complex since it's challenging for so many people to separate (not repress, ignore, eliminate, or devalue) emotionally driven or cognitively reflexive reactions that are easy, familiar, and comfortable from more considered reflection and an attempt to argue the other side, checking it for points of merit.

I want to give Duncan a nod, too, for giving me more texture to see regarding his views and understand he's not being one I might otherwise see as being overtly partisan while not addressing substance.

[SparkleMotion]

Here's an article by Pat Buchanan on the whole Obama race thing. I tend to agree with most of it.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25634&s=rcmp

Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.

Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation. White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to.

[33]

Here's an article by Pat Buchanan on the whole Obama race thing. I tend to agree with most of it.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25634&s=rcmp

Disclaimer: I'm sorry to derail the thread. The above linked article is no excuse for my actions, because I am not stopping myself and I take responsibility for myself.

I'm really disgusted by Buchanon with this drivel.

The thing he fails to see is that everything has been by the majority's terms for the past 225 years. So for him to say, "Let's have a two way conversation," as though civil rights have always been black's telling white's what to do is really disingenuous.

/short rant

[81artmonk]

well, I heard this a few days ago and no one posted it so I didn't comment.

I really think this will sink Obama. IMO this points out how close he is to the pastor/mentor of the church he goes to. Boneheaded!!!

[Predicto]

Disclaimer: I'm sorry to derail the thread. The above linked article is no excuse for my actions, because I am not stopping myself and I take responsibility for myself.

I'm really disgusted by Buchanon with this drivel.

The thing he fails to see is that everything has been by the majority's terms for the past 225 years. So for him to say, "Let's have a two way conversation," as though civil rights have always been black's telling white's what to do is really disingenuous.

/short rant

Buchanan also kind of ignores the fact that Obama's speech did exactly that - made it a two way street. I listened to Buchanan's own sister Bay (Mitt Romney's campaign chairperson) give credit to Obama for that on the day he made his speech.

[flashback]

I would say to Pat, if you want to present something from the "white" side of the debate, then by all means, present it. Obama tried to do as much in his speech. But isn't "White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to." just more of the victimhood that Buchanan's been against all this time?

Yes, who will represent white people in this dialog? There are so few of us in the media, or in politics. Who will stand up for us poor, oppressed, lectured to white people?

[BigMike619]

On the one hand I am glad to see Obama speak from his heart but honestly, that guy is starting to give Dubya a run for his money in saying stupid ****..

[Thanos]

Okay...

Well to me, the kind of venom I've seen Rev. Wright spew from his pulpit essentially negates whatever else he's done to "heal the divide."

Examples of hate that are not Youtube clips under five minutes.

Clock is ticking