Dealing With Black and White Race Relations in America

[GibbsFactor]

I know this is a little off topic -- but, what I don't get is other countries look down at us for our race relations -- but, i for one seem to think that we will in the long run have a greater understanding and tolerance to one another than any other country in the world...

I mean how are this issues any better in other countries?

When something tragic happens to someone anywhere in the world, someone in America is affected by it.

:2cents:

[Burgold]

maybe you're right oral would make everyone happier.

I agree 100% when I get that I feel wonderful about everything!!

See, if people would just listen to me the world would be a happier place and all our problems would go away.

[BigMike619]

This was a great thread SSM and I really feel like I have learned that I can talk to you and not be judged. Thanks dude..

[81artmonk]

Ok I'm glad you shared, however, I think the reluctance is partly due to the black community.

Whenever I hear something happen considered racial, the first thing I hear from the black community is 500 years, slavery and the past treatment. that may not be the case, but in my enviroment that's the majority of what I hear.

From my perspective, all I see is blacks viewing everything in a racial way.

Examples: Neighbor hangs a dummy from a chimney out for halloween and the blacks view that as racial.

Rush Limbaugh makes his comment that the media is eager for a black QB to succeed in the NFL and that is why they are pushing and idolizing McNabb the blacks view that as a racist statement.

The diaster that was hurricane Katrina, was turned into a Black racial issue. It was bush who was racist. It couldn't have been that there were numerous people who were completely incompetant, who didn't do their job properly and the main recipients of that lack of responsiblilty were blacks. that doesn't mean they were treated poorly becuase of their skin color.

Something simple that is in and of itself means nothing but what you see, IMO blacks use or see as racial.

I liken it to a marriage. If all you do is bring up the past sins of your spouse regardless of who it is, wife or husband, than nothing will ever be resolved and there will be no peace in the home. most counselors will tell you, that you should never relive past sins. The past is the past. You remember it, and learn from it, but to bring it up again and again is fruitless and doesn't help the situation.

From my view this is how I see the black community.

I see a group of americans who have been lied to. Rather than see the enormous strides blacks have made in this country, rather choose to see themselves as the victims rather than productive citizens of this society.

The leaders that they choose to listen to lie to them and tell them that it is White america that is against them, holding them back, when that's untrue.

it is themselves and their views which are holding them back. I won't deny poor conditions in neighborhoods, schools and other things, however, whites face those issues as well in poorer neighborhoods.

I hear alot of excuses rather than solutions. Why aren't blacks doing well in testing. Why aren't more blacks getting into college? Why aren't blacks getting better jobs??

I refuse to belive it's becuase of racism!!! When blacks aren't getting into college I hear, racism! well, why didn't they test well enough to get into college?? did they work hard and do everything they could and the white establishment is the one saying no??

They didn't pass high school?? Racism!! did the parents support the teachers in helping their son or daughter to do the work and work hard and to achieve, or did they just let them slide and than cry it was the white establishment that let them fail??

Does racism exsist in america? sure it does. is it rampant? I don't believe so. IMO blacks need to get off the "it's us against them" mentality that they have been force fed by their so-called leaders, and realize that life is life. It's hard and takes hard work to get anywhere in this society.

If you choose to make excuses and play the victim than nothing will every change.

[Fergasun]

Frankly, this world is not a perfect place. When I was a young boy, my mom would constantly tell me that "life isn't easy, this world is not perfect". As I've grown older and dealt with different experiences, I've seen this and learned it. We life in an imperfect world, with imperfect people of all colors. I think we have come along way in American but still have a long way to go in terms of black-white race relations (and you can add brown and yellow and whatever other colors as well). Understand that people are going to hurt you, and it's not limited to people of one skin-tone or another skin-tone... people of every race will hurt you. Now, it's how you choose to react to that hurt, or how you choose to heal from those hurts that dictate your attitude going forward. I think in this country we've done a poor job at healing from those hurts. We want to point to the skin color of the person who hurt us, as if that made the hurt worse for some reason. I'm sorry, but it's wrong for a white person to hurt me too!

The year is 2008. Martin Luther King gave his "I have a Dream" speech forty-five years ago.... yet still we like to divide people up by black/white, or cultural background. Why is that? Should it really matter that OJ Simpson was black? Black people reading this... OJ probably did kill Nicole and Ron Goldman. White people... the prosecution probably did a really horrible job of laying our their case, and the defense did a great job of defending OJ. The verdict probably had less to do with race than what the media want us to think. Why is it important that Barack Obama is black? Personally I think it's pretty messed up that I've heard people saying that Bill Clinton was "the first black president". I also think it's messed up when people use the phrase, "he's pretty well spoken for a black man".

To be honest, SSM your post was good, but I didn't see you offer a solution forward. We can still look at the color of other people's skins. To be honest, I think the "best solution is "forgive and forget". I know, that's probably like the husband who has committed adultery asking for forgiveness, but you have to admit that adultery happened a long time ago (collectively). I also think this policy is good in individual cases (and yes, there will still be hurt and anger that comes up), such as harassment or violence, OJ Simpson, Jena 6, Baltimore Bus Beating, whatever Obama's pastor says next week, whatever. About all these cases we can ignore the color of the people's skin and agree that nomatter the color, those actions, or words are wrong and hurtful.

Quite frankly I think leaders in this country have done a horrible job at helping race relations move forward. I actually singled out Al Shrapton/Jesse Jackson, but it goes beyond them if you think about it. Republican and Democrats all divide up the voting blocks and poll in such a way to figure out "what do Latino/Black/White voters want". When standardized tests are given in school, or when you apply for jobs you have to fill in a box for race/nationality. I think this is wrong, and leaders (whether it is Sharpton/Jackson or even people like Bush/Cheney/Obama/Clinton) shoud all agree that singling out people by race/nationality is wrong.

Beyond "forgive and forget", I think we all need to take responsibility for how we raise the next generation of people. I know many white people on this board had responsible parents who taught them, "even though that person has different colored skin or background, they are just the same as you." I want to think that sometimes my dad was racist, but I'm not even so sure. When I was in 1st grade (or around that time), I was on the playground and saw a black kid. Now, I'd like to think that I'd seen other black kids, but truthfully this is my youngest memory of interacting with a black kid. And what I did was throw rocks at him and call him "blackie". I don't know why I did this. I think I said something like, "well his skin is black so it's not a bad name to call him". But I do know my parents disciplined me and taught me that it's inappropriate behavior and just because he has different color'd skin, he's any different than me. If all parents corrected this type of behavior, we'd live in that perfect world.

Unfortunately, like my mom said, this world is not perfect. So as much as we want to talk about bringing up the next attitude with a right mindset, we will never be able to reach that perfection. There will always be some people on all sides who can't get beyond their hurts, whose scars are too big, even some who can't get beyond the color of my skin and your skin just because (many would call that "ignorance"). Are those the people we need to understand? Or should we point at them and call them racist? Are they imperfections? I think we just have to accept that they are imperfect, just like people of all races, and try to move beyond. That's why we "forgive and forget". Life isn't easy, or perfect, but we can always try our best.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

Ya know I think blacks were happy with the oj verdict not because they didn't think he was guilty but rather they wanted to show that the only color that really truly matters is green in this country. But, hey thats me.

[PCS]

It was my first day of school. 1st grade. Mom was driving me there with my brother in the back seat. Before we got to the school, mom said she wanted me to listen to her. She was direct and she was to the point. "J.W. . There is a word I do not ever want to hear you say. You are never to say it. That word is n*****." She went on to explain, very simply, that it was a very bad word and it was used at black people. This was 1968. Ozark, Alabama. I was unsure of exactly why she was telling me this, (I had never even heard the word), and why then. It wasn't until much later that I realized why. Going to a school in that area of the country and at that time, it was only a matter of time before I heard that word and kids being kids, well. It was also something that mom felt very strongly about. Racism was well represented in mom's side of the family and something that she had learned to overcome, (being in the military life helped a great deal and Dad was definitely not a racist).

In early 1970, we were stationed in Fort Sill Oklahoma. The kid across the street and I had become good friends and played alot together. More so than the rest of the kids in the area. I can't quiet remember the circumstances, but suddenly, that wasn't happening. He wasn't outside that much and when he was, he was only in his front yard. I was confused and wondered why my friend and I weren't playing with each other more. One day, we happened to bump into each other, and we talked a bit. He told me his grandmother had been mad at his father because she didn't want her grandson playing with me because I was white,(( I found out later that Dad had been receiving no small amount of pressure from above about his son playing with the "black boy" across the street. Dan never not once, discouraged me from playing him).

In 1975, we were living with my grandmother and grandfather, (God rest their souls), in Norfolk while dad was up in NOVA looking for a place to live, (he had been transfered to the Pentagon. R & D). Busing was in effect at that time so I ended up going to school, for one semester, at Jacox Junior High. To say that I was pounded on and humiliated would be an understatement. I was actually held up for my "lunch money" one day. I brought a lunch and had maybe 50 something cents in my pocket for the 7-Eleven after school. We weren't exactly in the green ourselves as a family. I gave them that and even offered them my lunch. Managed to survive that one. I actually walked onto the bus one day with a footprint on the right side of my face. I was kicked on my way out of school.

Anyway, I was in gym class when suddenly I was confronted by several classmates. A few of them, (if memory serves), were the same guys who had spent much of that time to date, bullying me and such. They basically wanted to kick my ass and I was pretty convinced that it was in fact, going to happen. Right then, several friends stepped in front of me and there was an angry exchange of words between the two groups. My antagonizers finally asked something along the lines of "Why are you sticking up for the little white guy?" The response was, "He's our friend and a good guy." Things broke up though I was on someone's list for the remainder of my time there. For the record books, I was the only white guy in that confrontation.

What's the point in all that? I've seen racism. From both sides and now in 5 different decades. And few others that are there. Subtle as they are. I've got dozens of stories about it but will spare you all those. Needless to say, I have had many, many discussions with all kinds of people of both races over the years about racism. White friends who are in fact, racists now, because they had similar experiences to mine, but came out of them with different view points. Black friends with the same experiences as other blacks, but came out with different view points as well. In all the discussions I've had with black and white friends over the years, there was one very common denominator in our attitudes about racism. We weren't raised that way. Pretty simple really. I don't expect that to be the end all be all solution to black white relations, but it is a start. And an obvious one. It also, at least in my experience, has helped me have very open discussions with my friend about it. We may not always agree, but that upbringing did help in my opinion.

Edit: I use the terms "black" and "white" before "friends" only because of the topic we are discussing. In all other times, I do not use those words to describe my friends. They are simply stated at "friends." Something to think about.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Great story, PCS. Thanks for sharing.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Great post Sassy. Talking with Jason has also opened up my own eyes to some of these issues, and I think it is really important for people to talk openly and honestly about race, even though it can be very uncomfortable. The only places I've found where these issues can even begin to be talked about are in a school setting, where discussion is strongly encouraged, or on an anonymous message board like this one. Anywhere else, it is basically taboo.

A little personal anecdote about the taboo ... When a white person meets my parents, they will often ask, "Where are you from?" And they will answer without thinking about it, and perhaps will even share some kind of personal story about Taiwan and how they came to America. They don't think twice about it.

When someone asks me, "Where are you from?" I answer "Silver Spring." Sometimes it becomes obvious that wasn't the answer they were looking for, and whether I go further depends on my mood ... if I am feeling my liberal identity politics that day, I will think to myself, "Goddamnit, I'm an American," and I will say that I actually spent my first few years in College Park but lived in Silver Spring during most of my school years, and that's where I graduated high school or I'll talk about going to college in California or something. If I'm feeling more in tune with my culture that day, I will say, "but my parents are from Taiwan; they came to the U.S. three years before I was born." But there is a weird taboo there about admitting that race exists ... I had been taught in school to be colorblind, but apparently I'm not supposed to do that when talking about myself. And of course this sometimes launches into an uncomfortable conversation about peoples' own experiences in Asia, which often have a weird racist angle. My parents get in these conversations too, but they would never see any racism in them.

There's something in my psychology that my parents don't have. Race and nationality are just reality for them, and although they too are citizens, they think of themselves as separate from white Americans, so they talk about race very casually without thinking twice (although sometimes they make comments about black people or Latinos, and they are sure to do it in Chinese ... but that's for the "do you know any racists" thread). But I carry some other kind of burden, and I have become self-conscious about my race. I think all minorities carry that same duality ... we all want to just be American like the white people are, but we also have this separate identity that we don't necessarily want to let go ... of course we're all Americans, but we're also something else ... it's complicated. So complicated that we don't like to talk about it sometimes. :2cents:

Great post Dj. Your story about how you say you are from Silver Spring is how I am

I will get asked "where are you from" Falls Church comes out right away

My dad will in fact say Ottawa since he spent a good portion of his youth there. The answer they are looking for is of course Pakistan, and like you, when I am in the mood I'll say "my parents are from Pakistan but they moved there after partition from India. And my last name means 'of Medina' so at one point I had Arab ancestors" or something along those lines

And of course being a non-terrorist Muslim that votes Republican :laugh: I do carry a bit of a burden as well, trying to show that hey, us Muslims really do like America and freedom and burgers and fries and aren't all out to kill you. And our religion teaches that

For most of my life, seeing how I was around generally white people but a fairly diverse crowd, I never say myself as being different at all. I still really don't, but like you said, its complicated

[Tastes Like Chicken]

I am mixed, white/native amer father & asian mother.

The school system I bused into was 90% black, 9.9% white, and then there was me.

The black kids picked on the white kids, and everybody picked on me. At that time, I denied my asian side- I figured it was safer to be 'white', at least I'd have a little protection :laugh:

Things changed as I got older, especially in middle school, it became cool to be different. That was the first time that I actually felt pride about race, not shame.

My kids are an amalgamation of several continents- Europe, Asia, Africa, North America.

They are being raised to identify themselves as Americans.

[DCsportsfan53]

I get the best of it all. My ancestors were European Jews. I think the new term is "ethnically white". :laugh: So while I've never been singled out or persecuted for my heritage and "fit in" with the majority, I'm also not completely a part of it and, let's face it, us Jews don't have much white guilt to carry.

Seriously though, excellent points Joe. There is definitely too much awkwardness around the subject and most people will avoid even bringing up race at all in mixed race company like the plauge. I will say, though, oddly, the only times I've ever really felt judged on my race is around black people. I definitely feel like I have to go a step further to prove myself or be accepted by them at times and that sucks. It's not really a good feeling but at the same time I understand it, I suppose. I can certainly say that, even given that I obviously can't fully comprehend the feelings present, were I black, I'd be wary in at least some ways of anyone who appeared to be a part of the white majority.

[TuckahoeSkin]

Well the first thing I think you need to realize is that Black Power isn't just two words. It was intended to be a movement.

At the time blacks were second class citizens. They were told they couldn't own their own business, or be generally competent in their own life without whites guiding them along the way. This led to a sort of reliance upon whites and a subservient attitude. Black Power was essentially a call for blacks to realize that they aren't inferior and that they need not wait for anyone, they needed to go out and make it happen for themselves.

WRONG on the "not allowed to own businesses" front. Ever hear of Maggie Walker? Very inspirational black woman, from here in Richmond in the 1910's-20's, that ALL people could find inspiration from. Do some research on her -- truly inspirational. Also, there were many vibrant, thriving black owned businesses that filled the niche of serving blacks who were not welcome in segregated white stores. With the Civil Rights Act in '64, those business began to vanish as blacks who had previously been excluded from white stores began to patronize them. It was an unintended consequence of the Civil Rights Act.

[TuckahoeSkin]

As a father of two children younger than four years old, I tend to frame things with them in mind. As I look at my three year old son, I wonder if he and other kids his age, if left alone, would learn racist attitudes. A lot of these attitudes are taught, another portion are learned.

I also experienced the bullying from black kids in school. Fortunately, I also had plenty of good black friends. They are the people I think about when a situation like Rev. Wright or OJ come up. I remind myself that, while we may see some things differently, it's not necessarily about race. I guess it comes down to having a suitable amount of perspective.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

WRONG on the "not allowed to own businesses" front. Ever hear of Maggie Walker? Very inspirational black woman, from here in Richmond in the 1910's-20's, that ALL people could find inspiration from. Do some research on her -- truly inspirational. Also, there were many vibrant, thriving black owned businesses that filled the niche of serving blacks who were not welcome in segregated white stores. With the Civil Rights Act in '64, those business began to vanish as blacks who had previously been excluded from white stores began to patronize them. It was an unintended consequence of the Civil Rights Act.

I'm not saying that it was illegal of that we weren't allowed to. But there was a portion of the mentality that going white was going right.

The black power movement became prominent in the late 60's early 70's. Two years after the the Voting Rights Act and The Civil Rights act, which pretty much was the crushing blow. As you indicate it was a consequence of the Civil Rights Act. But as I said earlier, there became a bit of a mentality in the community that the white stores were the place to go. So some blacks, not all, took a poor view of their own abilities and believed that white meant "better". And while the laws dictated that blacks are the same, some whites still harbored such feelings, and were quick to voice them.

So like I said, I wasn't trying to suggest that there was no way for blacks to achieve, it was an issue taking pride in ones self and boosting the morale of the community.

[Teller]

I actually am Jason, and I'm proud of how far you and I have come as far as our efforts to understand each other's positions, and just getting to know each other, Joe. I think we're miles away from the white guy who wouldn't give any ground at all, and the black guy who posted the "HH signal."

I've come to an interesting point in my life. I'm doing a lot of introspective thinking these days. It's not always fun. It's not always pretty. But it IS always helpful.

After PMing back and forth with a friend about some race-related issues, I kind of found myself at a crossroads. On one hand, I know in my heart of hearts that I'm not a racist. I know that my dream, like Dr. King's and many others', is to see a day in this country where everyone is respected, and treated as they deserve, based ONLY on their merits.

But on the other hand, whether it's misinterpretation, or things I've actually said, many people have gotten a desperately wrong impression of me on this board and elsewhere. Too many people think I'm against affirmative action because I must hate blacks. While I know that's not true, and Joe, I believe YOU know that's not true, the fact is that that is an opinion that is out there.

So I'm trying to do a little soul searching. Have I created this mistaken view of me that some people have through my words, or is it a mischaracterization on their part? And while I know the only thing I want to see is an end to all forms of discrimination and segregation, do I still need to tweak my opinions somehow?

Regardless, I truly believe that the solution to the racism that still exists in this country lies in the hands of people like you and I, Joe. We're the ones who will fix this. We're the ones who will find understanding and common ground, and hopefully healing.

This is one of the many things that government can't and won't fix for us. It's up to you and I to shake hands (as we have) and put our heads together (as we have, and will) and make our country better.

I've learned so much from my discussions about race on this board that I can't adequately put it into words. I learn on a daily baiss from people like DjTj, SSM, 33, and others. You guys may not have changed my opinions, but you've certainly helped to shape them. And I hope you know that I take your words to heart, and do use them as I attempt to evaluate my own positions and become a better person.

I will probably ALWAYS be anti-affirmative action; in the institutional sense. But REAL "affirmative" (meaning "positive") action comes from people like us; offering olive branches and learning from each other. I appreciate the continuing opportunity I have, as a member of this community, to do just that.

God bless us and guide us in our efforts to be the generation that turns things around. And God bless each of you.

[Kosher Ham]

Joe, When people ask this question, " What is your background/what are you ? ". I always answer, "purple or pimp" depending on the setting/question.

They typically respond, "no, I am serious". Which leads to me saying... "what does it matter" ? I rarely answer this question.

It doesn't, but that's just they way I am. Lots of people are like me in that sense, people that you and I have both met from ES alone.

Don't judge me based on my race, don't judge me based on my parents race, don't judge me based on your pre-conceived notions about who you think I may be or you think I may react. Because I am my own man who, lives my own life and makes my own choices. Judge me based on my actions. I know who I am, and I know that some people don't appreciate the fact that I am so honest with people, yet most people do and come to me for advice about pretty much anything...at least I will give them my honest opinion without mincing words.

Sorry, I am rambling. But I am sure you know what I mean.

[Thanos]

And that's exactly what us white people will never get and what makes it uncomfortable for us to talk about. We don't know how it is. We are the majority. I don't like the term African American because we don't say European American. Perhaps we should if we continue to say African or Asian or Hispanic American.

This is why there's a term of reverse racism. It's racism regardless of who is being hateful, but the race that is in the majority and has genuinely been a large part of the upper and middle class needs much more restraint, not because of history but because of pure numbers.

What most white people I know get upset about is the fact that while we did basically make America, we still left it wide open for every other race to come and be a part of. It's when they are here and don't want to assimilate that we get all up in arms. We don't want to have to change our culture. This of course makes it difficult for the minority culture to set foot in this country because everywhere you look is the European American culture. It's in our business attire, our food, our education, etc...

White America needs to let go a bit of their culture and allow a truly American culture to develop.

There's a constant struggle between whites and blacks. There's not nearly as much of a struggle between whites and Japanese, for example. And we were at war with the Japanese. There's no real struggle between whites and Asians. They have their culture but come here and assimilated to the already in place European culture without "inconveniencing" the majority.

Hispanics don't have the power struggle with whites other then language and coming here legally.

But then there's that black/white thing. Because these two cultures, here in American, have lived besides one another much longer then any other two races today. On top of that is the great oppression the European Americans did to the African Americans (notice how I switched the classification back to continent from color).

Blacks today are as American as Whites. For a couple of reasons.

1. Black ancestors didn't ask to be here.

2. Black have fought in every war to preserve America

The problem comes from culture change and slavery. Blacks were brought over here from a different culture entirely to be slaves. They had nothing. They were freed from nothing into a culture that was not their own. They were asked to assimilate into a culture with well established citizens. They were treated unfairly and unequally for 100 years after being "freed". Finally, they fought for their civil rights. They were granted their civil rights but not first without overcoming generations of thought by whites that blacks were not on the same level.

Again, blacks were asked to assimilate into a culture not their own with nothing. A culture, I might add that many did not want them in.

One of the main complaints I as a white man here from other white men regarding other races is this.

"Freaking Hispanics come here and don't learn any damn English. Yeah, but at least they work". "Damn black people think everyone owes them something and they just sit around collecting a government check."

That's it. Thats the main issue I have personally ever here. Right there. That's it.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone who is Hispanic and everyone who is black. Just as white stereotypes do not apply to all white people. I think everyone understands that. There's good with the bad.

What many people do not understand is the trials and tribulations a black man or woman must endure being American. As time passes, culture changes and adapts, evolves into less European and more American. Blacks from America are nothing like blacks from Africa, just as Asian Americans are like Asians and European Americans aren't like Europeans.

We are slowly making a true American culture.

Segregation also plays a role in racism. If a black man goes out to Kansas, he may be looked at with fear and concern from those living in the Midwest. Why? Because it's not something they see every day. I couldn't imagine being a black man. I often hang out in PG county. I go to Magic Johnson's theatre in Largo. I never feel uncomfortable. I grew up in housing projects. I came from nothing even though my family's had 200 years to make something of themselves. Most black families really have only had 30 years.

But that's an awful lot of thought white people have to put into things. We aren't all smart. Our ancestors were just ruthless. We try to make things better. We want black America to succeed. But I think it comes back to assimilation. Many whites want blacks to succeed at the culture in place. We want to welcome you all with open arms, but...

We don't want to have to change.

White America needs to let go a bit of their culture and allow a truly American culture to develop.

Of course these are my thoughts on the matter. I only speak for myself and I'm sure I have it all wrong. Just my :2cents:

Interesting points.But a couple of things.Black famiales have been together since Day One. We've been making something of ourselves alot longer.

Either because of Reconstruction/Jom Crow/de facto segregation the Black community did what most communities do.Work, erk out a living and try to pass on something more to their children then they had.

Remember most HBCU's were founded right after slavery,so education was always viewed as a method out of our condition.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

I actually am Jason, etc.

Jason, anyone who's taken the time to get to know you knows where your heart is at. Considering my circumstances, and that I consider you to be one of my closest friends, any racist label in your vicinity is patently absurd. I've enjoyed our discussions on race issues, amongst other topics.

Okay that's enough man-love for now.

(Not that there's anything wrong with that :paranoid: )

[Teller]

Jason, anyone who's taken the time to get to know you knows where your heart is at. Considering my circumstances, and that I consider you to be one of my closest friends, any racist label in your vicinity is patently absurd. I've enjoyed our discussions on race issues, amongst other topics.

Okay that's enough man-love for now.

(Not that there's anything wrong with that :paranoid: )

It's always nice to have the respect of the people you respect; so that means a lot to me, man. Thank you for the kind words.

(BTW, I didn't know you were Asian. We can't be friends anymore. Sorry.) :laugh:

[GibbsFactor]

Interesting points.But a couple of things.Black famiales have been together since Day One. We've been making something of ourselves alot longer.

Either because of Reconstruction/Jom Crow/de facto segregation the Black community did what most communities do.Work, erk out a living and try to pass on something more to their children then they had.

Remember most HBCU's were founded right after slavery,so education was always viewed as a method out of our condition.

Oh, I know that. I think my comment about 30 years refered to law and society more then what goes on in one's house or community. Black families are solid, stick together and have been working hard making good livings for ever. I guess my point was that it's only been 40 years since the last big civil rights movement, since law has been somewhat fair. That doesn't include prejeduces that had and have to be broken down on top of it all.

[Destino]

I'm a white hispanic with no hispanic accent when I speak English. I have no real race "indentity" because growing up I didn't fit in with whites, because I was hispanic and born in South America... and didn't fit in with hispanics in the US because most of them had never seen a white one. I have been accused of "pretending" to be hispanic by brown skinned Americans born in Georgetown that can't even speak Spanish. So, I just played soccer and hung out with that culture (best sports culture in HS, IMO) and left the whole race thing alone.

I have to say mexican jokes on one end, white jokes on the other. **** gets old fast.

But being an unintended undercover hispanic has it's perks. I get to see the "real" side of hispanics and whites when they think the other groups aren't looking. I've seen whites make some amazingly racist comments at work and heard hispanics talk say racist things about me, thinking I couldn't speak the language.

Racism exists in the US. People have just learned to hide it better and lie more convincingly about it.

The one thing I have noticed about race is that Americans have a very short term view of the situation. They don't talk about cultural effects and changes just here and now. Personally I think the current "black racism" is a predictable backlash. The generation raising them experienced it first hand and it's pretty damn foolish to think that some of that bitterness wouldn't be handed down. Times change but cultures take longer.

[Thanos]

Oh, I know that. I think my comment about 30 years refered to law and society more then what goes on in one's house or community. Black families are solid, stick together and have been working hard making good livings for ever. I guess my point was that it's only been 40 years since the last big civil rights movement, since law has been somewhat fair. That doesn't include prejeduces that had and have to be broken down on top of it all.

OK cool .

:eaglesuck

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

The one thing I have noticed about race is that Americans have a very short term view of the situation. They don't talk about cultural effects and changes just here and now. Personally I think the current "black racism" is a predictable backlash. The generation raising them experienced it first hand and it's pretty damn foolish to think that some of that bitterness wouldn't be handed down. Times change but cultures take longer.

Good points all around. And I think that what you say is this last paragraph is definitely true.

I believe Fergasun said that it's best to forgive and forget. But that's easier said than done. Just as Destino said, I'm only a generation removed from segregation and the injustices of the time. My dad was there, and told me the stories. So forgive and forget isn't that easy. It never is, we still remember 9-11, and our children will be told about it, and some of the anger may persist in our children.

Personally I don't believe there's a solution for racism, which is why I didn't try to present an end all be all solution. You can't force someone to change their mind, if they don't actually believe it. But I believe we can all play a part in making race relations, which is different from racism imo, better. As HH said, we can all learn something from each other, and to steal a line from GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle". The first step, in my experience, is open-minded discussion, where people can talk openly without fear of ridicule, but with the intention of gaining a better understanding of the struggles and frustrations of the other, which will ultimately help us relate and accept each other as humans, as Americans, and as friends.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

(BTW, I didn't know you were Asian. We can't be friends anymore. Sorry.) :laugh:

Well, since I'm only 1/2 Asian then that means I can still be your part-time friend. How does M/W/F and every other Saturday work for you? :laugh:

[wyominghansen]

One contributing factor to this is a simple one. Human Nature. Most of us don't want to hear about bad things we've done, or those related to us have done. Think about the time when you were a kid and you accidentally broke your parent's new vase, or crashed the car, whatever it may be. Think about it, and think about how much you hate having to relive that. I can imagine that most whites don't want to keep reliving a negative past that they may or may not have contributed to.

I know that could be the case for some whites. However, slavery was over when my grandparents came to America. The only slavery that my viking ancestors did was against white Europeans (the same was done to my ancestors by other whites). And you don't see me feeling bad for the French, and British ancestors of slaves that my people might have owned. And on the other side of the coin, you don't see me asking for reparations from the Italians, for taking my ancestors as slaves.

When is the last time that you were forced into servitude by anyone. Do you have any living relatives that were slaves? It kind of reminds me of the old feuds that were based on someones great-great-grandpappy being pissed at another family's great-great-grandpappy (who are both long-dead). And after a long time they forget what it was that they were figting about. But they still fight until one family is dead, or until they put the past to sleep and move forward.

So which way do you want to do it, like James Cohn of New York union's theological seminary, or do you just want to rise above all of the crap, and get on with a united America like in Martin Luther King's visions?