Open Letter: Star Jones Checks Bill O'Reilly's Racist Remark

[Teller]

I was not at all referring to you or your situation. Why do you believe everything I say is about you? HH I am really hapy you have moved on but I could care less to be honest.

FYI: My parents divorced and my oldest sister divorced so I know a little about the subject beyond you. You really need to get over yourself and stop ASSuming...because you just made yourself look like a complete @SS for no reason.

Sorry for speaking from personal experience and completely debunking your asinine argument.

Now, tell me how I'm wrong. (Not expecting you to sack up. You never do.)

[The_cavalierman]

Sorry for speaking from personal experience and completely debunking your asinine argument.

Now, tell me how I'm wrong. (Not expecting you to sack up. You never do.)

Ok...you are dead @ss wrong and here is how you wrong...

So you believe Star Jones is wrong for speaking out against Bill O'Reilly? Have you walked a mile in a black person's shoes? Do you believe that black people are angry with O'Reilly just to grab attention? :dunce:

You did not debunk anything...you just told everyone your business (yet again) for no reason.:violin:

My point which you did not even come close to debunking is that we cannot change what happened in history. We also cannot tell people how they SHOULD feel about traumatic events in their lives/history.

Example:

1. Go tell a Vietnam Vet to just get over it

2. Tell the descendents of Lemuel Penn that they should move on when they here people say hateful things aimed at blacks. Link

3. Tell an entire race of people that were subject to being treated like animals that they are over reacting when someone mentions an act of murder used to kill them in massive numbers.

The only thing you proved is that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Assuming O'Reily's quoted accurately, then I don't see any reason for people to be labeling the guy "racist".

(And frankly, I don't really see Media Matters mis-quoting the guy by making his words seem nicer, either.)

I have a lot of really negative opinions about O'Reily. I'd suspect that the a-hole is a racist, first class.

But this quote doesn't say so.

Well, consider the Jena Six, and then tell me its not racist. :2cents:

[PiLfan]

Since when is the word "lynch" a racial word? :doh:

Probably since words like "niggardly" are also deemed racial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22), not because they are, but because today's conventional wisdom suggests you shouldn't use any word that might be implied as racial, even if it isn't.

[Thanos]

I find it odd that the a certian segment of the population can tell another that all the oppression is a figment of its collective imagination.

Blacks are the only race who are repeatedly told to "get over it". Yet that is never told to Jews and others who've faced injustice in America.

[Teller]

Ok...you are dead @ss wrong

So you believe Star Jones is wrong for speaking out against Bill O'Reilly?:laugh:

Oooo....Ya got me. Care to provide ANY facts or ANY reasoning?

You did not debunk anything...you just told everyone you business for no reason.:doh:

You directly equated injustices to blacks throughout history to divorce. I explained why that is not the case. You still have not provided ONE fact as to why I am wrong.

My point which you did not even come close to debunking is that we cannot change what happened in history. We also cannot tell people how they SHOULD feel about traumatic events in their lives/history.

Example:

1. Go tell a Vietnam vet to just get over it

I've been through the traumatic event you referenced. You haven't. And yet you know 'beyond me' what it's like because some people you know went through it? :laugh:

Take your own medicine, pal.

2. Tell an entire race of people that were subject to being treated like animals that they are over reacting when someone mentions an act of murder used to kill them.

Their ancestors. Not them. Their ancestors. My granddad is a D-Day vet. That had to have been horrible. Does that entitle me to spend my whole life ****ing about it?

The only thing you proved is that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

:laugh:

Says Mr. Chicken****-No-Facts.

Now excuse me. I'm off to clean out my inbox again of all the, "Why did you try to have intelligent conversation with cav" PMs again.

[Thanos]

Christopher Newsom, Channon Christian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

What's your point? This wasa heious crime and I hope the killers get the chair.

[Teller]

What's your point? This wasa heious crime and I hope the killers get the chair.

That it goes both ways, to this day.

I appreciate your objectivity, T.

[Koolblue13]

So can we not use words like "dig" or "canal" for the Irish or "tracks" for the chinese?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

That it goes both ways, to this day.

I appreciate your objectivity, T.

You honestly think that saying you may lynch a black woman based on her remarks is not racist?

[Teller]

You honestly think that saying you may lynch a black woman based on her remarks is not racist?

Do you believe that Bill O'Reilly would organize a group to go physically kill Michelle Obama if this was truly the first time she was proud of her country?

Yes or no.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Do you believe that Bill O'Reilly would organize a group to go physically kill Michelle Obama if this was truly the first time she was proud of her country?

Yes or no.

So in order to be racist, you have to actually take action now. Following that logic, calling a black man the N-word is not racist either, unless he actually tries to enslave him, right?

In answer to your question, I think he actually might.

[headexplode]

Sorry for speaking from personal experience and completely debunking your asinine argument.

You didn't debunk anything. Your personal experience isn't an account of the experiences of others. At best, you proved that analogies aren't always perfect. Like it or not, the memory of institutionalized oppression lives on in those who suffered through it, and in their children who have heard the stories, read the accounts, seen the footage.

I don't buy into the games of O'Reilly and Jones. I think they're both full of ****. I think these kinds of exchanges obscure real race problems in this country. However, they ironically highlight the divisions that continue to exist, despite much progress, in this country as the result of over 400 years of systemic racism enforced with violence and legislation. To say that we have a long ways to go before true reconciliation can happen is an understatement. I do think we're getting there, but it could take several more generations.

On another point, what strikes me about the hardcore anti-"PC" crowd is that they act as if this is something new, or that it is some type of liberal invention, that there is a certain level of discourse deemed acceptable by society. They act as if there hasn't always been some things "you just don't say." "Lynching party" probably falls into that category, now. Sometimes, we can offend others without meaning to, or realizing what we've done, but that doesn't really change the feelings of the person who was offended. Some are unreasonably offended at everything. Still, they shouldn't diminish our responsibility to each other, to treat others respectfully, and perhaps try to think as they do for a change.

On the flip side, when it comes to tv and radio broadcasts, the easiest thing for most is to simply not watch/listen whatever offends/annoys us. It works for me. I don't watch O'Reilly or Deal or No Deal because I don't like those shows. I will not, however, hold a grudge against those who do watch them. Luckily, we have that freedom. I will voice my opinions about those shows, and any others I feel like, and if something offends or makes me, I will say so. Everyone else has that same right.

The media is inherently sensationalistic--it is a business driven by ratings. Ratings are generally driven by drama. While this psuedo-scandal is not particularly important, nor was the Imus fiasco, nor was the Golf Channel incident, we all talked quite a lot about it, and there were elements of great drama in these stories, and therefore people tuned it, and the advertisers were happy.

[Teller]

In answer to your question, I think he actually might.

Oh for God's ****ing sake. :doh:

Care to support that in any way?

Jesus Christ. By the time I'm 40, white men won't be allowed to even SPEAK in public.

[Teller]

You didn't debunk anything. Your personal experience isn't an account of the experiences of others. At best, you proved that analogies aren't always perfect.

I proved that HIS analogy was incorrect. But again, he doesn't have the balls to admit that, nor support his position with fact.

I'm going to start calling him "Cavyhorse1."

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Oh for God's ****ing sake. :doh:

Care to support that in any way?

Jesus Christ. By the time I'm 40, white men won't be allowed to even SPEAK in public.

Heres how I'll support it... making racist comments MAKES YOU A RACIST. Therefore, I don't put anything by a racist like that.

Do you ever care to answer my question though? Do you think you need to perform some action to be a racist? Don't you think words alone can make someone a racist?

[The_cavalierman]

Oooo....Ya got me. Care to provide ANY facts or ANY reasoning?

You directly equated injustices to blacks throughout history to divorce. I explained why that is not the case. You still have not provided ONE fact as to why I am wrong.

I am going to do you a favor and stay on topic...

My point being you can neither deny it did not happen nor gloss over it. You also can never say you are over it. You just have to deal with it. That is where the comparisons are the same as divorce. You are wrong because you are trying to tell people how they SHOULD react. Until you have walked a mile in their shoes and in this case it would be being black and living as a 2nd class citizen and sometimes being treated as less than human then you have no idea what you are talking about.

I've been through the traumatic event you referenced. You haven't. And yet you know 'beyond me' what it's like because some people you know went through it? :laugh:

Take your own medicine, pal.

Actually you continue to prove my point. The fact that you tell your sad divorce story every 3 minutes online shows everyone you are clearly not over it. :violin:

My point...which you clearly missed is that no one can tell you HOW TO FEEL about your situation. If you are angry about it then that is your right. If someone said your divorce was easy I am sure you would look at them like they were insane wouldn't you? Just like when someone mentions lynching you cannot tell black people how they should feel about it.

Their ancestors. Not them. Their ancestors. My granddad is a D-Day vet. That had to have been horrible. Does that entitle me to spend my whole life ****ing about it?

:laugh:

Says Mr. Chicken****-No-Facts.

Those that don't know/acknowledge their history are doomed to repeat it. Just like Jews make sure they educate their young ones about the Halocuast, black folks educate their kids about slavery and other attrocities suffered through the generations. Although the younger generation has not suffered these crimes against humanity it is important that they know what happened and most importantly that these young ones SPEAK UP so that nothing like that ever happens again.

Star Jones like most black folks have family that were effected by the racist policies of the past and present. Jones has learned the lesson to speak up and make it clear that you are not ok with people saying stupid and insensitive things without being held accountable. Those who do not learn from their history are bound to repeat it...

Now excuse me. I'm off to clean out my inbox again of all the, "Why did you try to have intelligent conversation with cav" PMs again.

This forum is not a popularity contest to me and unlike you I do not need others to validate myself or my opinions. I am glad you have friends here as you are more than willing to brag about because obviously you need the extra validation and attention. To me this is an opinion exchange forum and nothing more. You have called me names (which you were getting on me about) and lowered yourself just to make a point that was essentially flawed. Enjoy your friends and your PMs:)

[The_cavalierman]

You didn't debunk anything. Your personal experience isn't an account of the experiences of others. At best, you proved that analogies aren't always perfect. Like it or not, the memory of institutionalized oppression lives on in those who suffered through it, and in their children who have heard the stories, read the accounts, seen the footage.

I don't buy into the games of O'Reilly and Jones. I think they're both full of ****. I think these kinds of exchanges obscure real race problems in this country. However, they ironically highlight the divisions that continue to exist, despite much progress, in this country as the result of over 400 years of systemic racism enforced with violence and legislation. To say that we have a long ways to go before true reconciliation can happen is an understatement. I do think we're getting there, but it could take several more generations.

On another point, what strikes me about the hardcore anti-"PC" crowd is that they act as if this is something new, or that it is some type of liberal invention, that there is a certain level of discourse deemed acceptable by society. They act as if there hasn't always been some things "you just don't say." "Lynching party" probably falls into that category, now. Sometimes, we can offend others without meaning to, or realizing what we've done, but that doesn't really change the feelings of the person who was offended. Some are unreasonably offended at everything. Still, they shouldn't diminish our responsibility to each other, to treat others respectfully, and perhaps try to think as they do for a change.

On the flip side, when it comes to tv and radio broadcasts, the easiest thing for most is to simply not watch/listen whatever offends/annoys us. It works for me. I don't watch O'Reilly or Deal or No Deal because I don't like those shows. I will not, however, hold a grudge against those who do watch them. Luckily, we have that freedom. I will voice my opinions about those shows, and any others I feel like, and if something offends or makes me, I will say so. Everyone else has that same right.

The media is inherently sensationalistic--it is a business driven by ratings. Ratings are generally driven by drama. While this psuedo-scandal is not particularly important, nor was the Imus fiasco, nor was the Golf Channel incident, we all talked quite a lot about it, and there were elements of great drama in these stories, and therefore people tuned it, and the advertisers were happy.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Burgold]

Jesus Christ. By the time I'm 40, white men won't be allowed to even SPEAK in public.

That's why I'm studying mime. :Thumbsup:

[Teller]

Heres how I'll support it... making racist comments MAKES YOU A RACIST. Therefore, I don't put anything by a racist like that.

Do you ever care to answer my question though? Do you think you need to perform some action to be a racist? Don't you think words alone can make someone a racist?

Yes, I do. Absolutely, and I apologize for not answering before.

But if you look at the context, you can clearly see that O'Reilly is saying, "don't rush to judgement on Michelle Obama." I fail to see where that's a bad thing. He should get credit for defending someone so diametrically opposed to him philosophically.

If his comments had been scripted, and not off the cuff (oops, sorry for using a figure of speech, tailors) then I could see your argument. But he was clearly using a figure of speech in DEFENSE of Ms. Obama. To me, that's a good thing.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Yes, I do. Absolutely, and I apologize for not answering before.

But if you look at the context, you can clearly see that O'Reilly is saying, "don't rush to judgement on Michelle Obama." I fail to see where that's a bad thing. He should get credit for defending someone so diametrically opposed to him philosophically.

If his comments had been scripted, and not off the cuff (oops, sorry for using a figure of speech, tailors) then I could see your argument. But he was clearly using a figure of speech in DEFENSE of Ms. Obama. To me, that's a good thing.

That is absolutely ridiculous. That was a racist threat made her way which was MAYBE not intended to say "I'm going to lynch you," but was intended to frighten her into apologizing.

If you really are going to say that that comment was made in defense of Michelle Obama, then you are really just blindly supporting a racist because he's a republican.

And just to clarify because I asked a compound question there which was confusing, but you do think you need to perform an act to be racist, or you do think that words alone can be racist.

[Burgold]

I think words can be actions. They certainly have been used to provoke anger, hostility, violence.

Still, I don't think these particular words were acts of agression. I don't think these particular words were racist. Now, I did think that his restaurant episode where he was just amazed that black people could sit and eat in a civilized manner in a restaurant initimated racist thoughts.

I just don't see it in this particular statement.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I think words can be actions. They certainly have been used to provoke anger, hostility, violence.

Still, I don't think these particular words were acts of agression. I don't think these particular words were racist. Now, I did think that his restaurant episode where he was just amazed that black people could sit and eat in a civilized manner in a restaurant initimated racist thoughts.

I just don't see it in this particular statement.

You don't think that saying "unless" Michelle Obama actually didn't mean what her words say, that is "unless" she said something else or she apologizes for them, "I'm going to go to her house, burn it, and hang her from a tree," are words that provoke "anger hostility and violence?" You don't think the word "lynching" alone is a use of a word as an "act of aggression?"

I honestly think that's an indefensible position, but I welcome you to defend using the word "lynching" against a black woman in a non-aggressive way.

[Mad Mike]

OK, I'm going to TRY to inject some sanity and reason into this argument.

First off, we are not yet a full generation removed from a world where blacks had all dignity stripped from them at birth. They were abused both emotionally and physically in a way that none of us here can truly comprehend. What most people seem to forget is that many of those people are still alive. I had that point driven home when I talked to one of the finest men I have ever met. He was a soft spoken and kind old black gentleman who sat at my bar one slow night years ago when I was bartending. The stories he told me of being whipped and beaten for not chopping wood for the white man down the street weren't from a time of slavery but in the deep south they may as well have been. Now think about it. This wasn't someone telling a story that they heard about, this is someone who lived it. So please. Lets not act like this is ancient history we are talking about. It's going to take at least another generation to move past it.

Now, given all of that. I don't expect black people to just "get over" racially charged statements or actions. But I do expect some semblance of reason and sanity. We all know O'Reilly is a pompous ass. We all know he's not too bright. But you have to be a moron not to understand that despite his idiotically poor choice of words, he was trying to defend Michelle Obama. And no, I don't buy into the idea that he used those words in order to create a stir. Ockham's Razor rules here. O'Reilly the dumb ass, made a dumb ass choice of words. End of story.

Now while we are on the subject of dumb asses... Star Jones is an idiot. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't she the moron who didn't know that the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around?

I think most people are just too wrapped up in their hatred of O'Reilly to form a rational opinion though. For them, if O'Reilly said it, its a sin, and no amount of reason will persuade them otherwise.

:2cents:

[Teller]

I am going to do you a favor and stay on topic...

My point being you can neither deny it did not happen nor gloss over it. You also can never say you are over it. You just have to deal with it. That is where the comparisons are the same as divorce. You are wrong because you are trying to tell people how they SHOULD react. Until you have walked a mile in their shoes and in this case it would be being black and living as a 2nd class citizen and sometimes being treated as less than human then you have no idea what you are talking about.

I've never experienced racism? :laugh: I was a white cop, post-Rodney King. Yeah....I've had PLENTY of assumptions made about me, thanks. My dash cam saved me once from an African-American 'gentleman' who claimed I threw him over the hood of my car and berated him on a simple traffic stop. The camera showed me calling him 'sir' throughout, and never getting him out of his car.

But I know. I have to walk a mile in a black man's shoes before I can say anything, but he gets to make assumptions about me all day long. My generation has done more for race relations than any in our history. I have ZERO white guilt, and I never will. I've done nothing but treat people with respect. I only wish I could receive the same from the other side.

Let me talk to a black man who's been lynched, and your analogy is dead on.

Actually you continue to prove my point. The fact that you tell your sad divorce story every 3 minutes online shows everyone you are clearly not over it. :violin:

I don't need, nor want, your sympathy. And every three minutes? Post the date of my last post about the divorce. (Except where I successfully refuted your idiotic argument.) Again, not expecting YOU, of all people to sack up. I don't think you have the ability. But hey, maybe you can show me your Failure to Duck Award at a tailgate sometime, since that's what you base YOUR worth on. :laugh:

My point...which you clearly missed is that no one can tell you HOW TO FEEL about your situation. If you are angry about it then that is your right. If someone said your divorce was easy I am sure you would look at them like they were insane wouldn't you? Just like when someone mentions lynching you cannot tell black people how they should feel about it.

If there was a commonly-used figure of speech regarding divorce, I can promise you I wouldn't take offense to it. Again, despite the fact that that's something that happened to me personally. (Not my great-great-granddad, but me.)

Again, if O'Reilly had said, "let's lynch Michelle Obama," I'd be on your side 100%. But we both know that's not what happened.

Those that don't know/acknowledge their history are doomed to repeat it. Just like Jews make sure they educate their young ones about the Halocuast, black folks educate their kids about slavery and other attrocities suffered through the generations. Although the younger generation has not suffered these crimes against humanity it is important that they know what happened and most importantly that these young ones SPEAK UP so that nothing like that ever happens again.

Black folks educate their kids about slavery? Dude. The county I grew up in was 97% white. And I received PLENTY of education about slavery and segregation. We do a damn-fine job of educating ALL of our children about the atrocities of our past; and thank God! I don't want to see a repeat of that crap anymore than you do.

But God damn. Sticks and stones, right? Especially where a white man is CLEARY defending a black woman. I truly worry about my ability to speak going forward in this country.

{QUOTE=The_cavalierman]Star Jones like most black folks have family that were effected by the racist policies of the past and present. Jones has learned the lesson to speak up and make it clear that you are not ok with people saying stupid and insensitive things without being held accountable. Those who do not learn from their history are bound to repeat it...

Sure. And I'll be able to give my kids advice, before getting married, and afterwards how to make a marriage work, based on my mistakes. I'm not asking ANYONE to forget. I'll never forget what I've personally been through. But I know I'm a better man for it. Maybe I'm asking too much of the other side though.

This forum is not a popularity contest to me and unlike you I do not need others to validate myself or my opinions. I am glad you have friends here as you are more than willing to brag about because obviously you need the extra validation and attention. To me this is an opinion exchange forum and nothing more. You have called me names (which you were getting on me about) and lowered yourself just to make a point that was essentially flawed. Enjoy your friends and your PMs:)

Right. Because my opinions on race are so popular.

Again, when you want to make a legitimate argument, I'm still here....waiting.