When the strange is not so strange...Logic and staff hiring.

[skinsn24]

None of them will be our next head coach.

All you have to know is how Snyder works to know this.

I hope you are correct.

But if you want an example of Synder not getting what he wants:

Joe Gibbs for year 5+

Synder made it public that he wanted gibbs to stay. He didnt get what he wanted.:cry: <---Synder when gibbs retired.

[Aston]

It seems to me if one finds any weight in this logic that one could argue hiring the staff was not at all unwise in the situation we found ourselves, despite the common view it was a one in a million thing.

If you guess everything and something is right, then you guessed right

[THEREALTOR1]

Wow, there's a lot of old heads/mods in this thread, probably more than I can recall at one time, in my short time here. Good Discussions...

With that being said, this quote, struck me as particularly interesting. Being in sales, as I am, this single statement may be one that I may have to bury deep in my old hard drive whenever dealing with a potential client.

:applause:

When the Redskins allow you to leave a room, you know they don't want you.

[Jumbo]

Your link doesnt provide other discussion in that thread, just 1 post.

Last post for me on this too. The six links are "a few posts later" in that thread, just as I stated in my post in this one.

[THEREALTOR1]

If I may butt in here....

Look, I'm no Snyder apologist. I've been critcal of him in the past and really, really wish he'd leave the football side of things alone. I also would like to see a real GM in here. But, while this process hasn't been pretty, what Snyder is doing right now is exactly what he should be doing. Taking his time to get it right. I think it will be Fassel, but at least now we know he did his homework.

Regardless of who Snyder picks, no one will be able to say it was the wrong choice - until we play some games. After the season, then we can either reasonably jump all over Snyder (and I'm sure a lot of people will say "I told you so") or we can rejoice (at which point I'm sure no one will say "gee, I'm sorry I acted like a jackass, I was wrong").

As an aside, it really makes me sick to hear people talk about not being a Redskins fan based on this process and the eventual choice. I thought our fanbase was stronger than that, but I was wrong.

Hail,

H

Good post. :applause:

HTTR

[suze109]

Until we provide someone the job and they say no, no one has turned us down.

But Art, what if Dan wanted one or more of the interviewees, but the issue of personnel control was such a sticking point that a contract didn't come out of it, because both sides couldn't get past that? That was the impression I got of what happened when the meetings with Spagnuolo ended with him going back to the Giants.

Isn't it really just semantics?

If you tell the potential hire we want you but you have to agree to x, y and z, and the person says I won't do that, isn't that really the same as them turning down the job, even though no contract was ever officially offered?

[suze109]

Essentially its like this, we have a company and a possible employee:

Company: "We have a job opening, we want to possibly hire you"

Possible Employee: "What are the details"

Company: "X, Y, Z, yada yada, zorn."

Possible Employee: "Thanks but your job sucks compared to my job. No thanks"

Rejection??

Id say so. If you dont consider that a rejection, fine, create a word for it, but whatever it is, its not a good thing.

Just read this (after posting pretty much the same thing) :doh:

Anyway ... I agree completely. It's just semantics, IMO. Or spinning.

[skinsn24]

Last post for me on this too. The six links are "a few posts later" in that thread, just as I stated in my post in this one.

Lol i lied, one more for me i guess.

I understand the six links are a few post later in that thread. I just cant see those posts because you linked to me your 1 post only, not the entire thread. :cool:

[skinsn24]

Just read this (after posting pretty much the same thing) :doh:

Anyway ... I agree completely. It's just semantics, IMO. Or spinning.

Thanks bro, glad to see some people get it.

[skinsn24]

Wow and Zorn is the head coach. I guess this doesnt fit with any theory or disprove any theory either.

Simply surprised.

[Jumbo]

The problem with the board is a thoughtful, reasonable post like mine can allow comments like this. That's not what ES was about. ES USED to be about taking someone's thoughts and discussing them in a good, healthy debate.

It's a shame it's less about that and more about idiotic personal assaults given those who don't happen to like what they've read, yet have no intelligent reply, thus, resort to this. So, take a break. ES is going to be the old ES the rest of today.

Ah. Fresh air. The vast majority of content of this board lately consists of endlessly repetitive posts and threads based on errors, misperceptions, and the parroting or creating of unproven speculations that are treated as fact and then used to guarantee the continuing suffering and revel in the misery. I understand the pain, angst, and frustration as I feel it too, but one does not inevitably lead to a preponderance of the other; that is a choice of preference. If the result of the FO's activities turns out to be the Mother of all Cluster ****s, we will all throw ourselves on the pikes as though nary a single such wave had already been launched, anyway.

I think about 164th time you basically say "this sux" in 76 threads; you've abused the concept of discussion pretty thoroughly.

I'm sorry; I am distracting from the topic.

As I have posted, I like Zorn. Followed him a long time. He's much more than "the WCO." I have no issue with GB's promotion. For me, the idea of these moves being a big obstacle for any HC hiring we really want and will want the job will have to be proven. The search has been lengthy and I am as anxious as anyone. Our most-mentioned HC candidates haven't excited me, but not even Fassel fills me with horror either, as it seemed to fill Art or Rick (21).

I hate the idea of an interim coach, and prefer not to think of any of them in that manner. The HC's Dan has acquired to date were all generally regarded as premium candidates at the time. To me that opinion has nothing to do with hating or liking Snyder as an owner, it just is how I see the coaches that have been hired previously.

As has been said, after previous good choices for HC turning out so poorly, I can see wanting to wait for Spags and being very thorough in interviews, but sure what's going on now is taxing to most fans. I too wonder what the behind-the-scenes story was with GW, but given the histroy of the people involved it could be all sorts of stuuf, not just one all-purpose "it's Dan" answer. And as GW was so frequently and voluminously reviled here, I find all the castigating of his dismissal and agony over his departure a bit suspect. As an interviewer, it makes me wonder what his part was and not just assume it was all “Crazy Dan.” Yet I wanted both GW and Al to remain, as I have posted. The thing is, I can actually envision some solid reasons such has come to pass. Now I wait to see what's what.

Because "the worst has happened" wasn't what materialized in my mind when Marty, Steve S., or Gibbs were announced, and given the lurch Gibbs left the FO in (as I posted at the time, no wonder Snyder sat up all night trying to get him to hang on awhile) I am thinking we are doing more to feed the image of massive cluster **** than the actual facts merit. But if it turns out to be nothing less than that, at least no one will die of shock.

[Art]

The point of what happened to Craig is I don't give a rat's butt if someone reads the opening post and creates a thoughtful disagreement. There are a dozen people who've done that effectively. But when all you can do is appeal to the personal with no thought or effort, your typing fingers should stop or we'll stop them for you.

[suze109]

Thanks bro, glad to see some people get it.

It's not bro, it's sis, but that's cool.

[skinsn24]

The point of what happened to Craig is I don't give a rat's butt if someone reads the opening post and creates a thoughtful disagreement. There are a dozen people who've done that effectively. But when all you can do is appeal to the personal with no thought or effort, your typing fingers should stop or we'll stop them for you.

I hear ya art. I think we both disagreed in this thread but both handled it well, craig, not so much.

But now Zorn is coach. Never even called plays before. I like the dude, liked him as OC (even though disagreeded with the process of him being hired before the HC).

Now it seems Dan was out of choices, liked zorn and went with it. COuld be brilliant.

But easily could have happened 3 weeks ago!!!!

[SkinsNatsFan]

But easily could have happened 3 weeks ago!!!!

Only if they didn't want to talk with Spagnuolo first, but they did, and they said so up front.

[jbooma]

Zorn is the HC now that is what i call a joke.

Synder was worried about what the fans wanted not him and Vinny, this team is a joke.

[Jumbo]

But Art, what if Dan wanted one or more of the interviewees, but the issue of personnel control was such a sticking point that a contract didn't come out of it, because both sides couldn't get past that? That was the impression I got of what happened when the meetings with Spagnuolo ended with him going back to the Giants.

Isn't it really just semantics?

If you tell the potential hire we want you but you have to agree to x, y and z, and the person says I won't do that, isn't that really the same as them turning down the job, even though no contract was ever officially offered?

I think my argument is analogous to if two girls ask me for a date, and I choose #1 over #2 because I like her more in some way, it's not fair to say I rejected #1 if it's framed as though I would seriously avoid here due to negatives.

It may easily be I'd go out with her no problemo if I didn't have the chance at the one I liked even better. To say something like "I want no part of that" is doing girl #1 disservice, unless it's how I realy felt, and here we don't know that to be the case, but many are saying it anway. That's all.

[skins fan1010]

I'm on the record as preferring Saunders and wishing Williams was our coach, so I don't disagree. But, those things did not happen. After that, what happened has to either have a reason or be completely without reason..

I agree with you there. It now looks pretty clear to me that this process was as insane as I thought when I made this blog post two weeks ago.

Making Zorn the HC can only be considered a desperation move at this point. If Zorn were HC material, he would have been an OC for several years instead of a QB coach for, what, eight years? If he were HC material he would have been given that job two weeks ago and not the OC job.

I hope he does well, but I think we all need to lower our expectations for next year, which is sad because the Skins could have won in 2008.

[skinsn24]

I think my argument is analogous to if two girls ask me for a date, and I choose #1 over #2 because I like her more in some way, it's not fair to say I rejected #1 if it's framed as though I would seriously avoid here due to negatives.

It may easily be I'd go out with her no problemo if I didn't have the chance at the one I liked even better. To say something like "I want no part of that" is doing girl #1 disservice, unless it's how I realy felt, and here we don't know that to be the case, but many are saying it anway. That's all.

Jum, your situation is very much like what i have painted in this thread and others. I think i used a prom dance as my example.

The point remains though that even if your reason for rejecting one is that the other was even better, you still rejected the one you didnt choose, regardless of reason.

[33]

No, not Gibbs so much as the players who never bought in. You know this from their comments with Collins and when the offense was working how they were saying, "Wow, this thing works, it's just strange."

Gibbs didn't support Saunders enough by catering to Portis wandering in every few days to express "player" concerns and how the team needed this or that or this to succeed. Gibbs may have hurt himself by being too adaptable. He adapted when he got here because there was no proof his system would work and he feared failure.

This time around, there was no proof Saunders' system wouldn't work. Gibbs should have stood behind it more than he did probably. But, Gibbs didn't believe in his own offense enough either I don't believe.

I like your points in here, Art. Personally, I was never 100% behind Saunders. I just felt that he didn't have the support around the league that was implied.

But I had too much support for Gibbs, and I think you're probably right that he should have stuck with his offense in the long run. For my money, the 2005 5 game win streak was more impressive than the 2007 streak. The difference being Brunell running out of gas and Randy Thomas dropping out at the end of the season.

[TheLongshot]

Just saw this thread, since I wasn't here the whole day. Interesting stuff, especially with Art's call that none of the three guys we thought were under consideration got the job, tho I bet he didn't expect this. Course, some things fall by the wayside.

Good discussion.

Jason

[Art]

Just saw this thread, since I wasn't here the whole day. Interesting stuff, especially with Art's call that none of the three guys we thought were under consideration got the job, tho I bet he didn't expect this. Course, some things fall by the wayside.

Good discussion.

Jason

True, I did not expect it.

But, having seen it, I will say there's an entirely different logic behind hiring Zorn as OC that now puts this all into the perfectly reasonable category. I said in another thread, the team loved Zorn and knew it wanted him as part of the organization. The next head coach was in the air. The team got Zorn. Any new head coach who balked at Zorn wouldn't be here because Zorn was that valuable to the team.

[Veretax]

An interesting point Art. Do you think that maybe they wanted Zorn long term, but wanted to give him soome experience as an OC before giving him the HC Job, but in the end noone would put up with being a Wade Phillips under Snyder?