Corner technique (Deion's style vs. Champ's)

[PCS]

I'm going to have to look at that one, see if I can figure out if it's obvious enough for even me to see. Champ, early in his career, did have a tendency to get toasted on the double moves. But it wasn't just because he was jumping the route. It was something else, but can't remember the term for it. May be that. That said,if you asked me which one was the better corner, I'll tell you Champ. And that's coming from someone who is a bit of a Sanders fan for what he was able to do as a "cover corner".

[skinfan2k]

You know why Deion didn't need to learn how to tackle, because no one threw on his side. It was evident. People would alter game plans and not throw to that side of the side. Champ is not feared like that

[smoked]

Dammit, the thread has deteriorated into "who was better." Deion's technique sucked. His performance was directly related to his speed. When his speed declined so did his performance. In other words, his "technique" (whatever the hell it is) isn't worth teaching to anyone who doesn't run a sub 4.2 forty. This is why my question was aimed at Champ's technique and what it is that Deion hates about it.

You may ask why I care what Deion thinks if I think his technique stunk...it's so I know what NOT to teach my boys.

You may also ask why I'm asking here in The Stadium at ES...it's because I KNOW someone knows the answer. There's knowledge on this board. And, besides, I'm a 'Skins fan and I'm just hanging out with you toolbags.

[Henry]

Champ is almost never out of position on a play. His problem is that even though he's almost always in position to make a play on the ball, he sometimes doesn't. So even if he has you covered, you might still complete a pass on him.

Deion was not always in position to make a play on the ball. His strength is that whether or not he was in position he had a nose for the ball like no other. So even if you had him beat you didn't have him beat.

Fred Smoot's style of play is closer to Deion than Champ's is. Champ is more Darrell Green-like.

Of course Deion was light years better than Smoot is, and Green was light years better than Champ is.

And yes, as much as it pains me to admit it, Deion was light years better than Champ is.

[PCS]

You know why Deion didn't need to learn how to tackle, because no one threw on his side. It was evident. People would alter game plans and not throw to that side of the side. Champ is not feared like that

Now you're being silly. And you're smart enough to know it. That's got nothing to do with the tackling. Champ may or may not be feared like that, but that's a tough one substantiate. I'd almost tend to agree with you there however. However, if close to true, that could explain why Champ has more interceptions than Deion did at the same point in their careers, (if I read things right).

Deion and Champ are close when it comes to covering corners imho. However, Champ's the better overall corner because he plays the run better than Deion did. And that's part of the position as well.

[909997]

chammp sucks now

[DieselPwr44]

Where does Darrell Green fit into this equation?

Darrell Green was Deion Sanders before there was a Deion Sanders- John Madden

[skinfan2k]

Stats for both Bailey and Deion. Deion was not a tackler - he was a cover corner and in our generation the best we have ever seen. When deion played you felt like something big could happen and not a lot of corner backs can say that. Champ can tackle - good for him, but will that be a game maker? I don't think so. A High step into the endzone would be a game maker. Deion was the reason why shut down corner was coined

[FORBIDDEN]

Boy some of you are drunk at the bar, Deion by FAR, Champs style is to that he doesn't really back pedal, he likes to sort of shuffle, then turn and run whereas Deion played B & R nine out of 10 times at the LOS, could beat u with his hands then not let you beat him. Champ gets burned way too much especially with double moves to be even compared, when he gets burned it usually on 3rd and important and for big yardage,and the TD, that was not the case with Mr. Sanders. Sanders hated the slant, talk about alot of these corners but none of them really redefined the position the way PT did. Whether you like it or not thats the way it is.

Think about this the only way the 49'ers could game plan to beat the Cowboys then was to put Rice in the slot to get away from Deion, seeing as how that was not his forte either. But on that outside island there were not too many that were better.

Big Deion Fan, but loved Hanford Dixon from the Browns as well, and that super long towel

[smoked]

Champs style is to that he doesn't really back pedal, he likes to sort of shuffle, then turn and run whereas Deion played B & R nine out of 10 times at the LOS

Good post. But, you can't compare those two techniques. When he shuffles (IF hips open inside), he's reading QB therefore he's in zone. OTOH, Deion's B & R at LOS, eyes on WR at snap and he's 90% in zero or at least showing zero. But, your point is still made when you say he was left on an island...all mano a mano.

We're getting closer!!!

edit to add: Actually, I remember seeing Deion open his hips and shuffle showing zone and then close and play man. He got away with this when he ran like a gazelle, then that technique failed him when he got older...and slower.

[kubstix]

Deion was a nasty corner. But agree with alot of others, I saw Champ Bailey get absolutely burned numerous times this year. If it ain't the double move, he gets burned by the WR making a completion within inches of him and never being put in a position to make the tackle. Champ Bailey use to be a shutdown corner IMO. The WR's are getting more athletic.

[ke27on]

I think I heard the clip. I 'think' he might have said turning to take a quick peek back at the quarterback. I think the comment was he turns his head backwards toward the qb while his back is still facing away from the qb. Not totally sure on this.

I will also agree on the comment that why has this turned into bailey vs deion.

[Shilsu]

Is he referring to the stance?

Though I've never been coached at a high level, I was always under the impression that the proper CB stance was facing your man to allow you to backpedal and react.

In recent years, specifically the Denver Broncos, I've noticed the cornerbacks line up sideways in a karate stance. Then I saw Fred Smoot do it on the Redskins this year.

[radagast5]

Dammit, the thread has deteriorated into "who was better." Deion's technique sucked. His performance was directly related to his speed. When his speed declined so did his performance. In other words, his "technique" (whatever the hell it is) isn't worth teaching to anyone who doesn't run a sub 4.2 forty. This is why my question was aimed at Champ's technique and what it is that Deion hates about it.

The comment Deion made had to do with the way he faced a WR vs. the way Champ does.

If a WR ran a straight go route down the sideline, Deion would face him, so that Deion's shoulders and hips would more or less be facing the sideline.

Champ does the opposite, and runs with the WR with his back facing the sidelines.

Deion's technique makes it more difficult for the DB to lose the WR, whereas Champ's technique, due to the fact that his back is to the WR, makes it easier for guys to do what Moss did in teh Cowboy game (which precipitated Deion's comment) and run away from the DB.

[FORBIDDEN]

Good post. But, you can't compare those two techniques. When he shuffles (IF hips open inside), he's reading QB therefore he's in zone. OTOH, Deion's B & R at LOS, eyes on WR at snap and he's 90% in zero or at least showing zero. But, your point is still made when you say he was left on an island...all mano a mano.

We're getting closer!!!

edit to add: Actually, I remember seeing Deion open his hips and shuffle showing zone and then close and play man. He got away with this when he ran like a gazelle, then that technique failed him when he got older...and slower.

NO, actually you an turn ur hips and play M/M that way, champ had above avg deep speed and good hips but that technique is more used while playing 7/1 inside shade and just playing off man and trying to do that to jump alot of routes. Deion was starting to have some "hammy" problems but then while here in the game vs the Colts or Rams on the sideline play he really reaggrivated that toe injury and him playin in the slot was just not a good idea. He coulda if he had done it earlier been a heck of a ballhawking FS tho

[#1HIT]

Now you're being silly. And you're smart enough to know it. That's got nothing to do with the tackling. Champ may or may not be feared like that, but that's a tough one substantiate. I'd almost tend to agree with you there however. However, if close to true, that could explain why Champ has more interceptions than Deion did at the same point in their careers, (if I read things right).

Deion and Champ are close when it comes to covering corners imho. However, Champ's the better overall corner because he plays the run better than Deion did. And that's part of the position as well.

BINGO!!:notworthy

[FORBIDDEN]

Is he referring to the stance?

Though I've never been coached at a high level, I was always under the impression that the proper CB stance was facing your man to allow you to backpedal and react.

In recent years, specifically the Denver Broncos, I've noticed the cornerbacks line up sideways in a karate stance. Then I saw Fred Smoot do it on the Redskins this year.[/QUOTe

Another person who uses that technique was Daryl green playing that "triangle" technique where he is trying to keep the WR inside and still playing the QB at the same time using his speed to break the ball. But bigger WR's gave him trouble like Irvin and such.

[dinzelwashington]

dion had what it takes to be a great corner.. he had the cuts like a running back, soft hands like a wide reciever, and speed of a k/p returner, and had the nostrils like patrick ewing. lol he always has a nose for the ball.. all that combined made him the greatest corner back of all time... they had him beat, qb throws it thinkin his reciever is open, he WAS, a man with quick cuts, is quick to recover, speed to catch up and soft hands, int.. he utilized his skills like noone did..both on offense and defense.. for him defense lead to offense.... i talked to dana stubblefield.. he told me, he asked dion what do u want me to do when u get the int, dion told him. just take a seat and watch... we all did, cause we knew something was going to happen when dion got that pick. as much as like darrell green, champs skills... dion was the biggest game changer in the secondary, ever..

[JSSkinz]

I can only say that I find it funny people think Deion is the "greatest ever". If you think that, you never saw a complete package CB play football and are more interested in highsteps returning INTs for TDs rather than a solid open field tackle. What's even more hilarious are those of you who believe Champ is > Deion. Are you the same people who still believe Betts > Portis???:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yikes...

Good change of pace though. I am tierd of all the coaching rumor threads. :doh:

Gimme a break, who did you see that was better. You are a year younger than me so we have seen the same players and the same era's in the NFL and I dont remember anyone being as dominant as Deion until he hit year 11 or 12. Please tell us who was better smart guy! Please dont say Blount or Haynes like was previously posted by "smoke " because those guys careers ended before the 80's and he(Smoke) nor you saw them play. I would respect this coming from one of our older members who was actually old enough to understand football and watch them in their prime in the early 70's.

[ForOldDC]

The comment Deion made had to do with the way he faced a WR vs. the way Champ does.

If a WR ran a straight go route down the sideline, Deion would face him, so that Deion's shoulders and hips would more or less be facing the sideline.

Champ does the opposite, and runs with the WR with his back facing the sidelines.

Deion's technique makes it more difficult for the DB to lose the WR, whereas Champ's technique, due to the fact that his back is to the WR, makes it easier for guys to do what Moss did in teh Cowboy game (which precipitated Deion's comment) and run away from the DB.

I didn't see the clip you're refering to, Smoked, but this seems to be the answer you were looking for. I just want to make sure it doesn't get lost in all the Deion vs. Champ talk.

All this talk about technique is giving me flashbacks to the one year I played football in high school. Man, I was a bad CB... I never blocked a single pass. But I never got beat for a TD, either (always made the tackle). I guess that's a plus. Oh god, I'm reliving my childhood...

[Springfield]

Okay, after the rumor on the Mooch thread and bringing Deion over to coach DBs, I thought I'd start my first thread by asking a question regarding a statement I heard Deion make on NFLN a few weeks back.

I caught the tail end of Deion criticizing a coverage technique, I believe it was Coverage Two and the CB he was criticizing was copying the way Champ Bailey plays. Apparently Champ started a trend in this technique and Deion said he "hated" it. BUT, I don't know what he was talking about? Was it hip turn? Opening to the inside versus toward the receiver? Funnelling? The trail technique? Anyone catch this clip?

I saw that segment, and I thought I remember Deon saying that Champ's style was to not look at the quarterback at all which made Champ more likely to cause a pass interfearance penalty. Deon did go on to further state that other corners in the league were copying his technique (whatever technique that was) to their detriment also.

PS: As much as I'm a Champ fan, Deon definitely takes the cake on that matchup.

[Rskins06]

That is easy. The technique Deion Sanders hates about Champs is tackeling and hitting someone!

[estrella117]

Deion was talking about how bailey gives up way too much space between the wr and himself and he is always let the wr burn him deep because champ is always getting caught looking at the qb instead of the wr! When Deion played Deion was very phyiscal at the line and always stayed in front of the wr and kept the wr at arm's reach to always make sure he could make a play on the ball! My IMO.

[estrella117]

Deion by far was the better corner and the only reason Champ is so good today is because he had two of the best teacher's when he played with the redskins and that is D.Green and D.Sanders!!!!!!!!!!

[jayl1985]

I think deion is a better corner as far as coverage goes, but in today's nfl it's much harder to be a cb. In the prime of deion's career they didn't call the games like they do now so he could be more physical at the line of scrimmage and the open field without fear of being called for a penalty. Like previous people said the difference between them is that deion baited the qb into thinking the wr was open. Champ was more so try to jump the route or make a play on the ball while it's in the air. Of course I think deion's style was better just because he made so many qb's look foolish, and then they wouldn't even throw his way. The corner position is much harder than it used to be.