smoked Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 bump so @sschuck can read previous post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Love him or Hate him..Deion easily over champ. not even close really imo. Deion in his prime? Falcons/9ers/Dallas(not redskins/ravens) Deion was more fluid, faster closing speed, better hands, notorious for baiting some of the best QB's into thinking they had an opening, return ability, etc. and hell some may not like the flash , the bandanas, or the endzone walk/highstepping but it was all Deion. The only nod I give to champ is being a better tackler. Deion's tackling was laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaimeDeCurry Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 bump so @sschuck can read previous post Aw, aren't you cute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoked Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Aw, aren't you cute? Do you have something to contribute or are you just trying to start *****? And, yes, I am cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaimeDeCurry Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Do you have something to contribute or are you just trying to start *****? Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, this is my friend Pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoked Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, this is my friend Pot. Damn, the idiocy continues. I started this thread toolbag. I was called a jackass and responded. I also thanked those who contributed. You, on the other hand, can't keep your c0ckholster shut. Again, do you have something to contribute? If not, go start your own thread and I'm sure you're infantile sarcasm will draw your type of crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaimeDeCurry Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Damn, the idiocy continues. I started this thread toolbag. I was called a jackass and responded. I also thanked those who contributed. You, on the other hand, can't keep your c0ckholster shut. Again, do you have something to contribute? If not, go start your own thread and I'm sure you're infantile sarcasm will draw your type of crowd. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant15fromNJ Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Deion was amazing i would take him over Champ anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbnva Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 ok I don't know if the question was ever anwsered but I found this article that discusses Bailey's style of coverage http://robyardman.com/football-stuff/champ-bailey-changing-the-cornerback-position.html The way Whitlock lined up and played his receiver on that play was very familiar. It reminded me of Champ Bailey. Not how well he played (although he played very well) but his style, his technique. It was a style that Bailey began to incorporate into his stance and drop back around three or four years ago when he was brought into Denver. What Whitlock did that caught my attention was not the interception. It was how he got the interception. He was lined up about four to six yards off the line of scrimmage. His feet were apart slightly wider than his shoulders with his body turned inside toward the quarterback. When the ball was snapped he kept his eyes on the quarterback with the receiver to the back of his outside shoulder but still in his peripheral. His hips were turned up field as he side stepped and pressed the receiver towards the sideline Also inside that article was another one about Champ http://onlineathens.com/stories/123006/sports_20061230043.shtml DENVER - Champ Bailey fretted he would no longer be the best bump-and-run cornerback in the NFL when he badly tore his left hamstring last season. He was right. Now, he's simply the best cornerback - some say ever. "I couldn't run with a lot of people, so I started playing off," the line of scrimmage, the former Georgia star said. "And I realized how much more effective I was." In his new role, he was able to shut down more than just his man, he could contain half the field. He posted a career-high eight interceptions and effectively ended New England's championship reign by returning a Tom Brady pass 100 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbnva Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 OH and here are stats to show who is better Champ or Neon Deion Through the same number of season Champ has played 9 seasons Int - 42 for 482 yards (longest 70yards) TDs - 4 Tackles - 503 ( 448 solo & 55 assist) Forced Fumbles - 5 Pass deflected - 152 Deion after 9 seasons Int- 36 for 941 yards (longest 93 yards) TDs - 7 Tackles - 366 (289 solo 77 assist) Forced Fumbles - 8 Pass Deflected - 90 Deion was a better returner by far but the numbers show Bailey had more INTs, Deflected Passes AND tackles than Deion Champ > Deion Case Closed :laugh: Edit: Here is info for DG since somebody earlier asked it INT - 29 for 251 yards TDs - 2 Tackles - 648 (431 solo 217 Assist) Forced Fumbles - 0 Pass Deflected - 0 ( I don't the stats were measured back then) In the great scheme of things DG was a hell of a tackling machine but what put him on the map was consistency and longevity. Sorry to say in overall skills it goes like this Champ & Deion > DG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoked Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 That's great info Robbnva and probably answers my question. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbnva Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 That's great info Robbnva and probably answers my question. Thanks for posting. you are welcome, Now if I could come up with an idea to get Bailey back. Denver definitely got the better end of the trade IMO (no offense to portis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbnva Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I just added DG stats to my first post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 OH and here are stats to show who is better Champ or Neon DeionThrough the same number of season Champ has played 9 seasons Int - 42 for 482 yards (longest 70yards) TDs - 4 Tackles - 503 ( 448 solo & 55 assist) Forced Fumbles - 5 Pass deflected - 152 Deion after 9 seasons Int- 36 for 941 yards (longest 93 yards) TDs - 7 Tackles - 366 (289 solo 77 assist) Forced Fumbles - 8 Pass Deflected - 90 Deion was a better returner by far but the numbers show Bailey had more INTs, Deflected Passes AND tackles than Deion Champ > Deion Case Closed :laugh: Edit: Here is info for DG since somebody earlier asked it INT - 29 for 251 yards TDs - 2 Tackles - 648 (431 solo 217 Assist) Forced Fumbles - 0 Pass Deflected - 0 ( I don't the stats were measured back then) In the great scheme of things DG was a hell of a tackling machine but what put him on the map was consistency and longevity. Sorry to say in overall skills it goes like this Champ & Deion > DG I don't think those stats mean much. Lets see how many yards were caught against them. How many passes were caught against them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoked Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 you are welcome, Now if I could come up with an idea to get Bailey back. Denver definitely got the better end of the trade IMO (no offense to portis) Yep. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbnva Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't think those stats mean much. Lets see how many yards were caught against them. How many passes were caught against them? I don't think those stats are tracked, and the stats I listed mean a lot since that is how a CB is measured. Ability to tackle, intecept & deflect passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaimeDeCurry Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't think those stats are tracked, and the stats I listed mean a lot since that is how a CB is measured. Ability to tackle, intecept & deflect passes Yeah, but if QBs are throwing to Champ's man 75% more than they did to Deion's man, then your stats don't mean anything. They would only be comparable in a vaccuum of both guys getting thrown at the same number of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbnva Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Yeah, but if QBs are throwing to Champ's man 75% more than they did to Deion's man, then your stats don't mean anything. They would only be comparable in a vaccuum of both guys getting thrown at the same number of times. Well that could be said about anything or anyone. Every player in the Hall of fame would have to be re-evaluated if we used that reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Absurd. Deion is a despicable human being, but perhaps the greatest cover corner to ever play. Who are you to say he is a 'despicable human being'? How can you make a statement like that without backing it up. Deion has probably given more of himself to those in disadvantaged positions that most have. You're despicable for making a statement like that about a man who you don't know personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoked Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Who are you to say he is a 'despicable human being'? How can you make a statement like that without backing it up. Deion has probably given more of himself to those in disadvantaged positions that most have. You're despicable for making a statement like that about a man who you don't know personally. I agree. By all accounts, Deion is a very giving and caring person. He's flamboyant but a very fine man. from wikipedia: On September 2, 2005, in response to the terrible after-effects of Hurricane Katrina, Sanders challenged all professional athletes in the four major sports to donate $1,000 each to relief efforts, hoping to raise between $1.5 to $3 million total. Sanders said "Through unity, we can touch thousands. ...I have friends and relatives that feel this pain. Help in any way you can." In April 2006, Sanders became an owner of the Austin Wranglers, an Arena Football League team.[8] On March 2, 2007, Deion, on behalf of "Sanders Clause," made an appearance at the PCW Arena in Arlington, Texas. He made his special appearance for a young adult with a physical illness. The boy's name is Jeffery Stallone. Alongside PCW Tag Team Champion’s Lance Hoyt (“Shadow”), Wally Darkmon, “Main Event” Mike Foxx, and “The Texas Legend” Action Jackson, they talked to a standing room only arena about Jeffery’s illness and Sanders made the announcement that he will hold a special benefit show for Jeffery “The Snake” Stallone on March 17, 2007 at the PCW Arena, which then occurred on the given date. Sanders also tried to adopt a high school running back, Noel Devine, who was one of the top recruits in 2007. Sanders was advised to and said, "He doesn't have parents; they died. God put this young man in my heart. This is not about sports. This is about a kid's life." He now mentors Devine, and was a factor in Devine's extended wait to sign a letter-of-intent to West Virginia University. Devine eventually signed to play football for the Mountaineers. Perhaps you didn't know there was a private Deion with a big heart. You probably should be careful labeling somebody without doing some research. Just some friendly advice. PS: Maybe that's why he didn't like tackling, he didn't wanna hurt anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorfan2179 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Sanders in his prime was a shut down corner who took half the field away.Deion> Champ even though Deion is annoying I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't think those stats are tracked, and the stats I listed mean a lot since that is how a CB is measured. Ability to tackle, intecept & deflect passes I'm pretty sure they aren't tracked (they should be, though it would be difficult). If the ball doesn't go a cornerbacks way, that's a good thing, so tackles, interceptions, and deflected passes don't show the entire story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaimeDeCurry Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Well that could be said about anything or anyone. Every player in the Hall of fame would have to be re-evaluated if we used that reasoning. Well, yeah. That's why it's so important when selecting HOFers that you look at the overall body of work and not just statistics. It's what makes Art Monk not being in the HOF such a ridiculous situation. His stats obviously don't add up to gaudy numbers like some receivers' today, but when you don't look at it just in a vaccuum, and look at what they did, when they did it, and how they did it...that's what's important. That's also why its damn near impossible to compare two or more players using just statistics. Football is the ultimate team sport, no one player exists on their own. Add to the fact that stats for DBs are among the most misleading and hard to quantify, and it's pretty hard to use them in a comparitive argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillSkinzFan84 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Deion is better than Champ...thats not even a question. Some people on here praise Champ too much. Champ is horrible at checking the deep ball. Anything in front of him he is good at such as slants, hooks, and things like that. But if its a deep ball or a stop and go he is toast everytime. How is Champ the best when he got beat for 11 td's in one year? Hell the Raiders had 3-4 on him in one game, but nobody ever mentions this. People like to hate on Smoot but he doesnt get beat for td's, 3rd down slants now thats another story, but none the less he doesnt get beat deep. Stop letting the media form your opinions for you. Plus how is Champ better than Deion when he's not even better than D.Green? Thats like people saying Kobe is better than Jordan when he's not even better than Magic, or Larry Bird. THINK PEOPLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 OH and here are stats to show who is better Champ or Neon DeionThrough the same number of season Champ has played 9 seasons Int - 42 for 482 yards (longest 70yards) TDs - 4 Tackles - 503 ( 448 solo & 55 assist) Forced Fumbles - 5 Pass deflected - 152 Deion after 9 seasons Int- 36 for 941 yards (longest 93 yards) TDs - 7 Tackles - 366 (289 solo 77 assist) Forced Fumbles - 8 Pass Deflected - 90 Deion was a better returner by far but the numbers show Bailey had more INTs, Deflected Passes AND tackles than Deion Champ > Deion Case Closed :laugh: Edit: Here is info for DG since somebody earlier asked it INT - 29 for 251 yards TDs - 2 Tackles - 648 (431 solo 217 Assist) Forced Fumbles - 0 Pass Deflected - 0 ( I don't the stats were measured back then) In the great scheme of things DG was a hell of a tackling machine but what put him on the map was consistency and longevity. Sorry to say in overall skills it goes like this Champ & Deion > DG It aint no 'case closed' based on those stats. :doh: Provide a stat showing QBs avoiding Deion. QBs wouldnt throw his way at all. Offensive coordinators game planned around him in a avoidance kind of way. When QBs got stupid or ****y Deion would pick them. Baily is thrown on alot and you can find him getting used VERY OFTEN on youtube. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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